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Michael038
Guest
do you think that a catholic who supports pro-life candidates are heretics?
Do you think that a Catholic who supports a pro-choice candidate is a heretic?
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mikew262
Guest
They may be supporting a candidate for other reasons besides his/her abortion stance. I would hope most people judge a candidate based on the whole person concept, not just on 1 issue. IMO, to not do that defies common sense.
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StevenFrancis
Guest
The 2008 elections will be my first as a Catholic. I have to admit, that though I voted yes here, (because I know it to be true from the Church), I am in a bit of a personal quandry over this, nearly to the point of recusing myself from participation in National elections, until such time as a morally appropriate candidate one day appears in our American political system. To my understanding of the teachings of my Saviour, it would be someone who would be pro-life, in all ways (Abortion, no offensive war, against death penalty, against euthenasia, against cloning, In vitro fertilization, embryonic stem cell research etc. etc. per the Church). (many of these stances are currently associated with Republican Party), then, they must also be for moderating the greed of capitalism, cleaning up corruption in Government, conserving the environment, helping the poor, feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, Medical care and quality education for all citizens.(many of these stances are associated with the Democratic Party, but many are not supported by either of the major parties). So…anybody know any vehemently Pro-life, compassionate and tolerant, moderate socialists, who approve of some capitalist activities which do not encourage unbridled greed? I’m serious. I’m not trying to be flippant here. Surely someone must finally emerge who feels as I do someday. I guess in the meantime, I’ll have to find someone who is the closest to these things. Dennis Kucinich and Bill Richardson are close on probably more of this stuff than anyone else out there right now, however, they won’t be able to generate enough support to even make it worthwhile because of the countries current hatred of people who may be described as “Liberals”. I can’t in good conscience go for ANY candidates, so far announced on the right, or any of major candidates on the left. That leaves me with just making a statement vote, so I really won’t be contributing to the process, or just staying home altogether, but they tell us that as Americans, that voting is our greatest privilege and right, so I’d feel awful if I just didn’t vote. I’ve never done that before. What do most Catholics do? I’m really curious. I’ll be talking to my Parish Priest about this as well. I’m really pretty goofed up over all this, because I take it very seriously. I KNOW I can’t be the only one in this fix, so any book recommendations etc. would be appreciated.
Thanks, and Peace,
Steven
Thanks, and Peace,
Steven
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Matt_Collins
Guest
Heresy is defined as “the willful and persistent rejection of any article of faith by a baptized member of the church”.
If having an abortion were to meet that definition, then so would fornicating, and we can’t say that a fornicator is a heretic. They may in fact be a heretic, but you can’t say that from the simple fact that they fornicate. More likely they’re just a sinner.
So if having an abortion isn’t heresy, then I don’t see how voting for a pro-abortion candidate could be considered heresy.
Of course that doesn’t mean that it’s not a serious sin. It just isn’t heresy.
So no, it’s not heresy, but it may be a sin, given the right circumstances.
If having an abortion were to meet that definition, then so would fornicating, and we can’t say that a fornicator is a heretic. They may in fact be a heretic, but you can’t say that from the simple fact that they fornicate. More likely they’re just a sinner.
So if having an abortion isn’t heresy, then I don’t see how voting for a pro-abortion candidate could be considered heresy.
Of course that doesn’t mean that it’s not a serious sin. It just isn’t heresy.
So no, it’s not heresy, but it may be a sin, given the right circumstances.
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
You might find a document called “The Common Good” helpful - the Bishops of England & Wales published it about ten years ago.
Here’s a link: catholicchurch.org.uk/resource/cg/index.htmThe document itself can be down-loaded as a Word document.
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OTOH, as the USA is very unlike England, the conditions in which US Catholics have to make choices of this kind may be sufficiently different from those here for the document to be of rather limited use; but decide for yourself
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T1Catholic
Guest
I believe Church teaching makes abortion a make or break issue and if one candidate is openly and sincerely pro-life and the other one is openly pro-choice, that regardless of other issues, our first duty is to support the pro-life candidate. If they are both pro-life then you expand the issues. If they are both pro-choice, you need to go with the lesser evil or not vote at all. I can’t imagine many loyal Catholics voting for a candidate who is for abortion because they like where they are on other issues. Abortion either is or is not murder and if you believe it is murder, how can you support someone who is for murder just because they might lower taxes?
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Michael038
Guest
you are very right in that the life of the unborn child is the Most important issue for a catholic when going into the booth. Abortion is murder no ifs ands or buts about it. if both candidates are pro-choice i’ll write a pro-life candidate in on the ballet thats how serious this is to me.
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m134e5
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You ask two opposite questions- one in your title, one in your post.
It is heresy to justify supporting a pro-choice candidate because they are pro-choice. It is heresy to justify not supporting a pro-life candidate because they are pro-life.
If a candidate says they are pro-life, but you know there really isn’t much they can do about abortion (in a small town election, for example), then it is irrelevent. Vote for whoever you want. If they says they are pro-life, but you sincerely believe they are just latching on to that issue to win votes, and you don’t like most of their other positions, then don’t vote for them- abstain from that particular vote if there are no suitable candidates. If a candidate says he is pro-choice, don’t vote for them, unless he cannot affect the legal standing of abortion.
It is heresy to justify supporting a pro-choice candidate because they are pro-choice. It is heresy to justify not supporting a pro-life candidate because they are pro-life.
If a candidate says they are pro-life, but you know there really isn’t much they can do about abortion (in a small town election, for example), then it is irrelevent. Vote for whoever you want. If they says they are pro-life, but you sincerely believe they are just latching on to that issue to win votes, and you don’t like most of their other positions, then don’t vote for them- abstain from that particular vote if there are no suitable candidates. If a candidate says he is pro-choice, don’t vote for them, unless he cannot affect the legal standing of abortion.
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Michael038
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typo, i meant pro-choice in the question.(human error)
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Michael038
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PLAL
Guest
Yes, anyone aiding or involved in abortion is a heretic.
Voting for a Pro-Abortion candidate is aiding in abortion period!
Voting for a Pro-Abortion candidate is aiding in abortion period!
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PLAL
Guest
Mike,
Abortion is the “only issue”. Please name me any other combination of issues which have murdered over 45,000,000 people since 1973 in America?
Enough said!
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SeekerJen
Guest
I completely understand your point and agree with you, but what do you suggest we do in the situation we may be faced with next year? We know the Dems will put up a pro-choicer. It is also becoming more and more likely that the Repubs. will also put up a pro-choicer. Given the option between Obama and, say, the GOP pro-abort Giuliani (who is on what, his third marriage? After publicly humiliating his second- I think- wife and kids while flaunting his mistress?), I think I would vote Obama just to keep Giuliani out of office. That’s if I don’t choose to abstain as I did in the 2006 mid-terms.
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PLAL
Guest
I think a third Independent Pro-Life candidate will take advantage of this opportunity and will try to win with at least 34% of the vote. If this happens we need all Catholic’s to vote their faith and vote for the Pro-Life Independent candidate.
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cargopilot
Guest
I got it. The title and poll question was clear.
Of course, I voted yes. I don’t believe that any Catholic can support a pro-abortion candidate without being a heretic, a sinner or whatever else you want to call them. Generally, they always seem to have some weak reason to justify their support of their pro-abortion candidates.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
You nailed it. It seems some people who claim to be Catholics will jump through hoops to justify voting for a pro-abortion candidate.
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kangnamdragon
Guest
I think it would be wrong for me to publicly support a pro-choice candidate because he/she is pro-choice, but if I have to choose between 2 pro-choice candidates, then I can support one for other reasons.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Unfortunately, there are many who think it is okay to vote for a pro-abortion candidate and against a pro-life candidate if the reason for the vote is not abortion.
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mary_bobo
Guest
Th
And then there is another topic on the forum that insists that there are more abortions when Republicans are in office than when Dems are in office. No stats, just adamant comments.This is another example of rationalizing voting for the pro-death party. Fascinating.
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c659smith
Guest
good evening from disney world.
the questions is killing or the paticipating in the killing of the innocent evil? ___________.
what other issues would or could have a higher priority?______
________.
what makes us different from other animals is that we have a soul and know right from wrong without being taught.
use that and tell me abortion is right and just.
dust the sandles from your feet and move on.
life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness.
Jobs? The economy? Taxes? Education? The environment? Immigration? Forget it. We do not have nine million people dying in a typical president’s term of office due to bad job programs, bad economic policies, bad taxes, bad education, bad environmental law, bad immigration rules—or even all of these combined. All of them together cannot provide a reason proportionate to the need to end abortion.
the questions is killing or the paticipating in the killing of the innocent evil? ___________.
what other issues would or could have a higher priority?______
________.
what makes us different from other animals is that we have a soul and know right from wrong without being taught.
use that and tell me abortion is right and just.
dust the sandles from your feet and move on.
life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness.
Jobs? The economy? Taxes? Education? The environment? Immigration? Forget it. We do not have nine million people dying in a typical president’s term of office due to bad job programs, bad economic policies, bad taxes, bad education, bad environmental law, bad immigration rules—or even all of these combined. All of them together cannot provide a reason proportionate to the need to end abortion.
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