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Young_Thinker
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Thank you.
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Newbie2
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The point is that the poster stated authoritatively that it is IMPOSSIBLE to conceive a baby at 80. This is the first post that came up when I Googled it. Yes, the claim is in doubt, but not disproven. The poster has put up no evidence beyond his or her own authority to back up his or her claim.
That is my only point. “Very unlikely” or “nearly impossible”, I would agree with, as menopause has usually occured by this age.
Um…Again, hellopeople, we have to be precise in our language. It is POSSIBLE for a woman past menopause to have a baby by means of artificial implantation and hormonal support. Why anyone that age would do such a thing is beyond my understanding, but it is POSSIBLE, although highly unlikely.
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Sailor_Kenshin
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True as far as it goes—but GOD always knows what you’re up to.
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Texas_Roofer
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I see the problem, first the church is not out to win that is not what the church does. Second please research the term “open to life” in catholic teaching. And last the church is not anti-gay, never has been.
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SugarMagnolia
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Sure thing :aok:no, but I did get you confused with the protestant I was sparring with,I am sorrycan you forgive for being an idiot?
I think extremism begets extremism. The rules of the Church are so strict that people who can’t live up to them swing to the opposite extreme of hedonism. I think a little tolerance for nonprocreative sex among married heterosexuals will go a long way. Consider it this way: Imagine a married couple uses ABC (yes, I know it’s considered a sin), but later they change their minds and decide to have children. Imagine a couple is having premarital sex (I know, also a sin), but later they change their minds and decide to get married. These people can change their minds and improve their moral behavior. Thus, what they do should not be in the same category as homosexual couples. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with those heterosexuals being together as a couple; there is something intrinsically wrong with the homosexual couple, something which can never change. The heterosexual couple can always improve morally and still be a couple. The homosexuals cannot improve morally and still be a couple. Perhaps if ABC or premarital sex in a committed heterosexual couple were regarded as a venial sin, instead of a mortal sin, then heterosexuals would not be so quick to see themselves in the same boat as the gays. But when the Church says ABC or premarital sex in a heterosexual couple is equally sinful as gay sex, then those heterosexuals are being *put( in the exact same boat as the gays and naturally they are going to cooperate with them.
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rossum
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So no homosexual couple can ever decide to live in celibacy together? While it might not be common, it is possible hence your argument applies equally to both sinful heterosexual and sinful homosexual couples.
rossum
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stcalixtus
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a perfect reply to cmatt25…well said!
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stcalixtus
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a ridiculous comparision, gay sex will never be accepted by the church as murder will never be or abortion ectOk I’m glad ya’ll know what the future holds. Once we had to obey by not eating meat on any Friday of the yr in the US. Once no one would have thought to have been able to take the Eucharist in hand. Once no one thought of speaking liturgy. Once female altar servers were in someone’s imagination.But carry on.
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Mannyfit75
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The society is changing but the Church teaching on homosexual behavior will never change. The Magisterium of the Catholic Church on faith and morals cannot change. Homosexual sin falls under morals and it is evil act. It has been a part of Divine Revelation since the birth of the Church. Homosexual marriage will become a norm by the secular government but these gay marriages will never be valid. It will have the same position as the Church teaching on contraception. Pope Paul VI’s Encyclical Humane Vitae affirms the Church stance against contraception. To the present day, the Church remains firm on this.
Homosexual Marriage will remain invalid in the eyes of God and His Church. Jesus established the Church when he appointed Peter as the Chief of the Apostles. He gave him the keys of the kingdom, the power to bind and loose. This Church exist today and the Popes are the successor of St. Peter.
If you read the writings of the Early Church Fathers, the Church have condemned homosexual acts. It will never change. Even if the majority starts to say it is ok to act “gay” the Church will not change. The Church does not change its teachings base on public opinions. It teaches what God has taught us.
God speaks through his Church by the power of the Holy Spirit. When the Final Judgment Day comes, everyone who do this evil of homosexual behavior will be held acountible for their sin and they will pay for it. They will stand before the Lord Jesus Christ and he will not welcome them into the Kingdom of His Father.
It is better for homosexuals to live a chaste and pure life if they wish to gain heaven.
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CMatt25
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Sure I know all about all the different Catholic categories. Scripture, tradition, dogma, defined doctrine, undefined doctrine, catechism, teaching, disciplines. But I’m not a mind reader. I don’t know if female altar servers will someday lead to women priests. You don’t really either but it’s fine if you want to believe you do. I don’t really mind if you do.
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Mannyfit75
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In addition to those teachings of the Church. We must remember that God’s way is not our ways, nor our ways is God’s way. God’s way is the right way. Humanity’s way is self-center, corrupt, and they need God’s guidance to do what is right morally.
If you look at the gay marriage it is all about financial gains. $$$
It is foolish that the majority this society fails to see that.
If you look at the gay marriage it is all about financial gains. $$$
It is foolish that the majority this society fails to see that.
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stcalixtus
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You can link all you want to your numerous post promoting gay marriage, easy too decipher your agenda, do you support “gay rights” are you a protestant? in the USA we do not execute homosexuals as they do in the ln brutal country of Iran. I pray for gay people but do not accept the sin of an active gay lifestyle.God help all of the oppressed in various Muslim countries where basic human rights are absent.
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Kay_Cee
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Actually, I do know there will never be female priests. The Church has absolutely no authority whatsoever to ordain women as priests. Because it has no authority, it is impossible for the Church to create women priests.
But this is off-topic. If you wish to discuss whether or not the Church will change any of its doctrines, please start another thread.
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Langdell
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Here’s another way for the OP to look at the issue:
The Church views masturbation in much the same way that she views homosexual acts. Both are “gravely disordered.” Now, masturbation has been widely accepted by non-Catholics as normal for a lot longer than same-sex unions have been accepted by society. But the Church has never wavered in its position on the sinfulness of masturbation. Why would we expect anything different on the subject of homosexual acts?
Also, regarding both masturbation and homosexual acts, the Church does not define anyone by those acts. She does not consider someone “a homosexual” anymore than she would consider someone who is drawn to masturbation “a masturbator.” We are all humans and immortal souls, with our own crosses to bear. For some it’s attraction to people of the same sex, for others it’s pornography, for others it’s what-have-you. No one has the “right” to have the Church view his sins as not sins. What you should do (if you’re Catholic) is repent, confess, and sin no more.
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The Church views masturbation in much the same way that she views homosexual acts. Both are “gravely disordered.” Now, masturbation has been widely accepted by non-Catholics as normal for a lot longer than same-sex unions have been accepted by society. But the Church has never wavered in its position on the sinfulness of masturbation. Why would we expect anything different on the subject of homosexual acts?
Also, regarding both masturbation and homosexual acts, the Church does not define anyone by those acts. She does not consider someone “a homosexual” anymore than she would consider someone who is drawn to masturbation “a masturbator.” We are all humans and immortal souls, with our own crosses to bear. For some it’s attraction to people of the same sex, for others it’s pornography, for others it’s what-have-you. No one has the “right” to have the Church view his sins as not sins. What you should do (if you’re Catholic) is repent, confess, and sin no more.
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jmcrae
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Those who actually practice that lifestyle tend to have more than one lover, yes. And (unlike heterosexual sex) there is nothing intrinsic to the homosexual act that limits it to two people - more than two people can commit these acts together - they would not be “cheating on” each other in so doing.
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jmcrae
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Actually, it was God who did that, when He created Adam and Eve, instead of Adam and Steve.
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Mannyfit75
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The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that all baptized should remain chaste.
**2348 All the baptized are called to chastity. The Christian has "put on Christ,"the model for all chastity. All Christ’s faithful are called to lead a chaste life in keeping with their particular states of life. At the moment of his Baptism, the Christian is pledged to lead his affective life in chastity. **
For marriage couple the CCC states,
2350 Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love. They will help each other grow in chastity.
Homosexual persons are called to chastity and should avoid the homosexual act. Gay marriage in the eyes of the Church will always remain invalid.
The Congregation of the Doctrine and the Faith have written an Guideline concerning homosexual marriage. The document is called, Consideration Regarding Proposal to give Legal Recognition to Unions between Homosexual Persons (See site at vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html )
The introduction is self explanatory. I do like to quote one of the statements made in this document.
The Church’s teaching on marriage and on the complementarity of the sexes reiterates a truth that is evident to right reason and recognized as such by all the major cultures of the world. Marriage is not just any relationship between human beings. It was established by the Creator with its own nature, essential properties and purpose.(3) No ideology can erase from the human spirit the certainty that marriage exists solely between a man and a woman, who by mutual personal gift, proper and exclusive to themselves, tend toward the communion of their persons. In this way, they mutually perfect each other, in order to cooperate with God in the procreation and upbringing of new human lives.
- The natural truth about marriage was confirmed by the Revelation contained in the biblical accounts of creation, an expression also of the original human wisdom, in which the voice of nature itself is heard. There are three fundamental elements of the Creator’s plan for marriage, as narrated in the Book of Genesis.
Marriage is instituted by the Creator as a form of life in which a communion of persons is realized involving the use of the sexual faculty. “That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife and they become one flesh” (Gen 2:24).
Third, God has willed to give the union of man and woman a special participation in his work of creation. Thus, he blessed the man and the woman with the words “Be fruitful and multiply” (Gen 1:28). Therefore, in the Creator’s plan, sexual complementarity and fruitfulness belong to the very nature of marriage.
Furthermore, the The Church teaches that Christian marriage is an efficacious sign of the covenant between Christ and the Church (cf. Eph 5:32). This Christian meaning of marriage, far from diminishing the profoundly human value of the marital union between man and woman, confirms and strengthens it (cf. Mt 19:3-12; Mk 10:6-9).
- There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family. Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law. Homosexual acts “close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved”.(4)
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Charlemagne_II
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Manny
*If you look at the gay marriage it is all about financial gains. $$$ *
To a degree. But it also opens a Pandora’s Box. Most pedophilia by gay adults would be made legal if gay married people were able to adopt children of their own sex. With the legalization of gay marriage, how can married gay people be stopped from adopting children for that purpose? And for what other purpose would they be adopting children of their own sex?
Pity the children they might adopt. More importantly, let us protect them from a society gone lunatic with satisfying every lunatic’s demands.
*If you look at the gay marriage it is all about financial gains. $$$ *
To a degree. But it also opens a Pandora’s Box. Most pedophilia by gay adults would be made legal if gay married people were able to adopt children of their own sex. With the legalization of gay marriage, how can married gay people be stopped from adopting children for that purpose? And for what other purpose would they be adopting children of their own sex?
Pity the children they might adopt. More importantly, let us protect them from a society gone lunatic with satisfying every lunatic’s demands.
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Langdell
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I think most psychologists consider pedophilia and homosexuality to be two separate conditions. In other words, being attracted to people of the same sex does not increase the likelihood that one is attracted to children of the same sex. That’s a whole nother thing.
I honestly think that the vast majority of same-sex couples who adopt do so for the same reasons that childless heterosexual couples have for adopting: they want the joy of raising children but are unable to have their own. I also think same-sex couples are misguided, as the Church teaches, but I don’t think pedophilia enters into it
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Mannyfit75
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The Catholic Charity in D.C. have stop its services due to the legalization of gay marriages. As you know the Catholic Charity often shuts down business of adaption services because gay marriage is contrary to Church teachings.
Catholic Charity may stop their services but I am sure, there are other adoption services that will grant adoption to “gay couples.” So they can’t be stop. I believe in the future when more and more states start legalizing gay marriages an if the U.S. Federal government overturn the DOMA (Defense Of Marriage Act of 1993), the Catholic Church will be probably the remain firm against gay marriage. I can hope the other Christian Churches will follow the Catholic Church path on this issue, but in recent times, some Protestant Churches have bless homosexual unions. I also think the Eastern Orthodox will never permit "homosexual marriages. They are deep in Scripture and Tradition as well, so it is unlikely they will cave in to “homosexual agenda.” In a way, this issue might bring a possible union between the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church.
The two lungs of Bride of Christ cannot do it alone. On the side note, there might be more Traditional Protestants like the Traditional Anglicans who abhor gay unions. That might push them to join also, which we have witness. Anyways, in the previous text, I made a citation from the Vatican on the issue on gay unions. It is worth reading into.
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