Do you think that the church will ever accept gay marriage?

[Charlemagne_II]

SugarMagnolia
*
Our country is currently deciding whether the very definition of marriage will change and whether you will have to accept gay marriage everywhere in society except within the four walls of your church. *

Not only that, gay couples will be as fully entitled to adopt children as heterosexual couples. Likewise, the Church will not be able to legally refuse employment opportunities on the basis of the the applicant’s gay matrimonial situation.

The prospect of all this indicates our culture is going truly berserk.

When will it end, O Lord? When will it end?

 

[mackbrislawn]

SugarMagnolia
*
Our country is currently deciding whether the very definition of marriage will change and whether you will have to accept gay marriage everywhere in society except within the four walls of your church. *

Not only that, gay couples will be as fully entitled to adopt children as heterosexual couples. Likewise, the Church will not be able to legally refuse employment opportunities on the basis of the the applicant’s gay matrimonial situation.

The prospect of all this indicates our culture is going truly berserk.

When will it end, O Lord? When will it end?

Indeed, where will it end? I think it will end by the state becoming the church. More and more the state is imposing its values upon the people, and more and more it is taking over the functions of church. Until, the state hopes, the church will wither away. In the meantime, the state is doing its best to prevent the church from functioning in the church’s way.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

The Church will not wither away. It cannot be chipped away by billions of the the deceived swinging away at it with pickaxes. It may become very difficult to be Catholic it might even cost lives but Christ’s church will not be destroyed.

 

[Prieldedi]

SugarMagnolia
*
Our country is currently deciding whether the very definition of marriage will change and whether you will have to accept gay marriage everywhere in society except within the four walls of your church. *

Not only that, gay couples will be as fully entitled to adopt children as heterosexual couples. Likewise, the Church will not be able to legally refuse employment opportunities on the basis of the the applicant’s gay matrimonial situation.

The prospect of all this indicates our culture is going truly berserk.

When will it end, O Lord? When will it end?

Indeed, where will it end? I think it will end by the state becoming the church. More and more the state is imposing its values upon the people, and more and more it is taking over the functions of church. Until, the state hopes, the church will wither away. In the meantime, the state is doing its best to prevent the church from functioning in the church’s way.

Eclesiastes 1:9, “What has happened before will happen again; what has been done before will be done again: there is nothing new under the sun.”

We can foresee the future of our nation by looking back at history, specially the history of the people of God. Immorality has brought down empires and nations before. Ours is not and will not be the exception. Our generation might not see it happen, but at the present pace it will come to that.

With that in mind look at this possible scenario across the Atlantic:

Europe, as we know it, appears to be an endangered species. On the immorality issue, Europe is far ahead of the USA. Europeans (Christians and non Christians) are decreasing in numbers, while at the same time Muslims are growing in numbers by birth and by immigration. Muslim couples have 5-10 kids, European couples 1-3. In a few generations there will be more Muslims than Europeans, and they will democratically elect Muslims to public office. The elected Muslim officials will replace, step by step, the current laws with laws that in the end will declare most European countries “Muslim countries”. The state will become Muslim. Given the chance, they’ll take the opportunity.

Our nation will find itself in a similar situation but not necessarily with Muslims. It’s a fact that stronger people will overcome weaker people, and history shows us again and again that immorality produces weaker people/nations. Part of the reason is that people are so centered in their personal satisfaction, in their “human rights”, that they will lack the will to defend the nation. You can see this trend right now. In the end, ours will become weaker and weaker and will face what Europe is facing now.

One can never underestimate what God has reserved for those nations that, once having been part of His people, now reject His laws… He’ll have the last word.

“What has happened before will happen again; what has been done before will be done again: there is nothing new under the sun.”

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

It was never, ever a matter of “acceptance”. The Catholic Church cannot change Truth. The Church cannot change the sacrament of matrimony – and it doesn’t matter how many people don’t like it, no matter how many people debate it, no matter how many laws are passed.

To throw barbs and attack the Catholic Church is futile and an attack on Truth from He who is Truth.

 

[markomalley]

They could have fertility tests done prior to marriage.

I can see it now.

The new FDA approved PreConceive Plus Male Infertility Sperm Test is an easy-to-use screening test to measure your sperm concentration in the privacy of your home. No embarrassing doctors visits where you traditionally have had to “produce” a sample for analysis.

The PreConceive Plus Male Infertility Sperm Test is easy to use. Simply collect a semen sample and place it in the special liquefaction cup provided with the kit. Wait 15 minutes, add the semen and solutions to the test well and read the test results.

See CCC 2352. I am really sure that the Vatican is going to endorse that one, now, aren’t they?

I can just see it:

Requirements to be married at St. Alphonse:

1. 
   *]Member of parish for six months
   *]Baptismal and confirmation sacraments
   *]Pre-cana
   *]Test results from the PreConceive Plus Male Infertility Sperm Test

1. 
   Yeah, right.
   
   **
   

   If they’re virgins before marriage, how will they know if one of them is impotent?

   **They’ll sure find out quick after they’re married, won’t they?
   

   My point on the fertility issue is that if infertile heterosexual couples are having sex that is “open to children,” then the phrase “open to children” is meaningless and homosexuals could claim that they too are “open to children.” Either way, the only way anyone could believe infertile heterosexual couples or homosexual couples are “open to children” is by a total ignorance about how procreation happens. Since I doubt that this is the case, it’s all just rhetoric when infertile Catholic couples do it and I’m sure the homosexuals will be quite willing to use rhetoric themselves and say that they are “open to children” who come as a result of their homosexual sex acts.

   This is the main reason why I don’t normally discuss “homosexual” threads when I see them…they just lose all possible common sense.
   
   Let me just lay it out for you:
   
   The only type of sexual stimulation that could potentially result in children can only be done by a male and female couple. Period. Any sexual activity that can be done between a male and a male or a female and a female simply cannot result in children. Period. Openness to children means that the activity performed could result in a pregnancy and that nothing is done to prevent that from happening when they engage in that activity.
   
   Frankly, a male-male couple doesn’t have the hardware to have childbirth. A female-female couple doesn’t have the hardware either, unless some artificial method is used to provide the sperm. Therefore, neither of those types of couple can be open to childbirth.
   
   I pity those who have same-sex attraction. Not hate: but pity.
   
   But a discussion on how to make those types of arrangements analogous to actual marriage is just a joke. A joke on them and a joke on society.

 

[genghomes]

The Church will never accept Gay Marriage, because if it does, then it won’t be the Catholic Church. It hasn’t accepted contraception, abortion, sex outside of marriage, women Priests, etc. One needs to look at a booklet on mortal sins and venial sins, it’s pretty interesting. I was looking at it recently and saw a mortal sin that wasn’t confessed that I didn’t realize was a mortal sin. The Church doesn’t accept those things, but their are parishoners doing those things. A marriage, even if infertility is involved, is accepted in the Catholic Church. Their are many married couples who have adopted, because they weren’t blessed with the ability to have children, but were blessed with adopted children. The Catholic Church doesn’t condemn people for having homosexual feelings, it’s just acting on those feelings that is a sin. Their have been people who had gay feelings who chose to live for our Lord and take a vow of celebasy.

Our secular society has said that’s ok to be gay, so many people who experimented say they are gay. As a Catholic, I will hate the sin, but love the sinner, just as Jesus did. God bless.

 

[PJM]

=hellopeople;6376986]To be honest, with the way society is going, I think they will eventually accept gay marriage. The new generation is taught that everyone is equal including different races, sexes, and people of different sexualities. This is the message that is being taught to our young, and before long the church is going to lose significant numbers of people if they don’t change their views. Even now, the church gets a bad rap for being anti-homosexual. In 20 years it will be much worse. I predict that the church will keep their teachings on abortion, but will ease up on gay marriage. I believe that within the next 25 years, the church will, at the least, stop their fight against same sex marriage at a secular and government level.

If your right [THANK GOD YOUR NOT] Hell would have to be made a whole lot BIGGER than it is.

Once an intrinsic evil always an intrinsic evil. For 2,000 years this has been true, nd because it is the singular truth on thr issue; it will alway remain true,

The Issue is truth, not time, not social acceptance; ONLY God’s truth!

Love and prayers,

 

[Charlemagne_II]

*I predict that the church will keep their teachings on abortion, but will ease up on gay marriage. I believe that within the next 25 years, the church will, at the least, stop their fight against same sex marriage at a secular and government level. *

I disagree. The Church cannot change a fundamental doctrine, and cannot cease to oppose evil in all its forms. The Church’s influence may wane, but the Church cannot cease to preach Paul and the Gospels just to accomodate social trends. It did not do so in the early Church, and that is why so many were martyred.

I am prepared to entertain the notion that a new age of martyrdom may be upon us, but the Church will stand firm and not buckle just because the devil has us by the throat.

 

[jesuspsr]

NO! NO! Never!!

 

[Mea_Culpa]

*I predict that the church will keep their teachings on abortion, but will ease up on gay marriage. I believe that within the next 25 years, the church will, at the least, stop their fight against same sex marriage at a secular and government level. *

I disagree. The Church cannot change a fundamental doctrine, and cannot cease to oppose evil in all its forms. The Church’s influence may wane, but the Church cannot cease to preach Paul and the Gospels just to accomodate social trends. It did not do so in the early Church, and that is why so many were martyred.

I am prepared to entertain the notion that a new age of martyrdom may be upon us, but the Church will stand firm and not buckle just because the devil has us by the throat.

You’re right!

As the secular culture descends further and further into paganism - the Church and her positions will be ever more “counter-cultural.” Of course there will be those who want to “change with the times” - but Christ promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church, so I am confident that the Church will be the light in the darkness of the neo-pagan (and increasingly, Islamic) world we see around us. Homosexual marriage, abortion, hedonism - these are things the Church cannot and will not embrace.

 

[sgt1133]

You are either not a Catholic, or know very little about the true nature of the Catholic Church. The Church will never – never – change its teachings on gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia, women priests, and many other moral positions it has taken over the last two thousand years. It cannot. Christ speaks through the Church, and His word is law. Moreover, the Church has survived unchanged through much worse predicaments than we are experiencing now: wars, plague, famine, world chaos, bad popes, and apostates and heretics in our own ranks. It has survived tremendous adversity precisely because it has not changed its teachings, and because of Christ’s promise. I have read a lot on this blog about predictions of a changing Church, and some of it sounds like wishful thinking. Forget it – the Church will never change its Truths, no matter how hard you wish.

For those on this site who are either anti-Catholic, Catholics ignorant of our Church, or bitter, fallen Catholics, your attempts to distort the message of Christ will only encourage those of us who really seek the Truth, to verify what we already know: that the sure way to eternal salvation is through the only True Church on earth --the Catholic Church.

 

[John21652]

To be honest, with the way society is going, I think they will eventually accept gay marriage. The new generation is taught that everyone is equal including different races, sexes, and people of different sexualities. This is the message that is being taught to our young, and before long the church is going to lose significant numbers of people if they don’t change their views. Even now, the church gets a bad rap for being anti-homosexual. In 20 years it will be much worse. I predict that the church will keep their teachings on abortion, but will ease up on gay marriage. I believe that within the next 25 years, the church will, at the least, stop their fight against same sex marriage at a secular and government level.

One of the great lies thrust into modern thinking is that discrimination is wrong. Discrimination is a necessary tool for survival and a necessary skill if an individual is to lead a successful and happy life.

We discriminate when we choose our food, when we choose our friends and even when we choose our spouses. Another word for discrimination is ‘discernment’ and it is a skill we develop as we mature. A mature, self confident individual is able to discern what id right, what is wrong and what is best in all the circumstances for a fruitful, happy life.

Yet today, children are being denied the opportunity to develop this essential skill. A skill that has been handed down from generation to generation as a means of bettering our social circumstances, our economic circumstances and our fulfillment as mature adults. Children are taught that to diswcriminate between people is wrong, that all people are equal. Well, they are not all equal. Some are less honest that others. Some are more aggressive than others. Some are more selfish than others. Our children are not being taught to discern between the different types of people who will come into their lives at various stages.

Morality requires discernment. An individual must discern between good and bad behaviour, as it pertains to themselves and to others. As society becomes more and more secularised, not everyone’s morality is the same. Children and young adults need to be able to discern between what is and what is not of their own morality. They must discriminate if they are to be true to their own values. They must discriminate to keep themselves safe from moral and even physical harm.

Discrimination is a basic part of being human and is a right that should not be given up.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Discrimination is a basic part of being human and is a right that should not be given up.

---

Indeed, Jesus discriminated by picking only men to rule his Church. In today’s politically correct world he would be called a misogynist … even though he crowned his mother Queen of Heaven.

 

[JimG]

Of course, the Church will not accept homosexual marriage, any more than it accepts heterosexual unmarried cohabitation, pre-marital sex, adultery, free fornication, divorce, contraception, pornography, or any number of other indices of societal devolution.

(The other day I heard a woman on a secular TV station make the offhand remark about "no-fault divorce: "No fault divorce is an oxymoron. Of course somebody’s at fault!.)

The fact is, these things are increasingly accepted in our secular culture, and as they become more accepted, they are eating away at the foundations of our civilization. This is a discussion we won’t have to have for much longer; a society which widely accepts moral evils will soon fall.

 

[bluelake]

I think the gay marriage issue is a human rights issue and the majority of the children being born now will either be for gay marriage or labeled a bigot and a homophobe. I think the church will change their stance on it.

there is no such marriage as gay marriage.
homosexuality is a sin. To even think any church would accept a sinful lifestyle is an abomination to the Lord.
See Rom.1:18-32 other sins are listed there as well.

bluelake

btw, if the church accepts this sin , why not all of them. Just ditch the Ten Commandments and forget about church.
what a stupid statement. ‘a human rights issue?’ it’s a sin , issue!!

 

[bluelake]

Of course, the Church will not accept homosexual marriage, any more than it accepts heterosexual unmarried cohabitation, pre-marital sex, adultery, free fornication, divorce, contraception, pornography, or any number of other indices of societal devolution.

(The other day I heard a woman on a secular TV station make the offhand remark about "no-fault divorce: "No fault divorce is an oxymoron. Of course somebody’s at fault!.)

The fact is, these things are increasingly accepted in our secular culture, and as they become more accepted, they are eating away at the foundations of our civilization. This is a discussion we won’t have to have for much longer; a society which widely accepts moral evils will soon fall.

Good post jim.

God bless you,
bluelake

 

[Realist]

The fact is, these things are increasingly accepted in our secular culture, and as they become more accepted, they are eating away at the foundations of our civilization. This is a discussion we won’t have to have for much longer; a society which widely accepts moral evils will soon fall.

I get that you’re not into gay marriage. I’m not here to argue that you should change your stance, because that’s a losing position on a board like this. If you think it’s a sin, well then, it’s a sin. But the idea that a society which accepts gay marriage “will soon fall” is just… weird. How do you see this going down? Seems like wishful thinking from an angry person. What happened to happy thoughts?

 

[catharina]

I get that you’re not into gay marriage. I’m not here to argue that you should change your stance, because that’s a losing position on a board like this. If you think it’s a sin, well then, it’s a sin. But the idea that a society which accepts gay marriage “will soon fall” is just… weird. How do you see this going down? Seems like wishful thinking from an angry person. What happened to happy thoughts?

A sin is a sin by action of its evilness not because someone guesses it is a sin.

A society that approves the decline of sexual morality is in full decline.
Remember the fall of Rome?
Every excess and immorality was approved - and then Rome fell.

PS - that fact should fit at the top of the list of all facts in your “religion” of reality.

 

[JimG]

I get that you’re not into gay marriage. I’m not here to argue that you should change your stance, because that’s a losing position on a board like this. If you think it’s a sin, well then, it’s a sin. But the idea that a society which accepts gay marriage “will soon fall” is just… weird. How do you see this going down? Seems like wishful thinking from an angry person. What happened to happy thoughts?

I love happy thoughts. Marriage, in its traditional form, has generally been viewed favorably by governments and even been given incentives and tax benefits, because it provided societal benefits, the main one being the production and education of the next generation of citizens and taxpayers.

Gay marriage provides no such societal benefits. Now it can be argued that gay families also help society. I don’t believe so, but wont’t go into the details here. Despite recent advances in such things as in vitro fertilization, it remains the case that every new human being must arise from the union of a mom and a dad, which just happens to be the foundation of the basic family unit. And permanence in the family unit helps support a stable civilization.

Gay marriage alone won’t bring down society. I think that contraception and no-fault divorce have done far more to weaken the foundations of society than gay marriage. But’s it’s another nail in the coffin.

I like to be optimistic about the future of Western civilization. But the one institution which might provide some hope–the Catholic Church–is universally denigrated and its teachings ignored.