Do you think that the Novus Ordo will ever be abolished?

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thechrismyster said:
you’re right. i was just being overly dramatic. I guess i visit this side of the forum too often.

I’ve gone from being lukewarm about traditionalists to completely annoyed by them. no one else, the rest of CA is awesome. but the traditionalists… they’re pushy.
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We should avoid lumping. We don’t like it when they do it to us, right? Don’t let the bad apples spoil the bunch.👍
 
Nope, the Pauline Mass has the same probability of being “abolished” as the Tridentine Mass does – next to none.

That’s not to suggest however that there wouldn’t be two (or more) valid extraordinary forms of the Mass one day way down the road with a normative Mass called the Benedictine Mass…
 
Who do the Traditionalists associate with, anyway?! Where do you get these ideas?

I find a lot of the theories on this thread to be utterly fantastical and totally unrealistic. You’re dreaming.

And I, too, resent the implication that the NO Mass that is totally approved by the Catholic Church is somehow lacking compared to the TLM. I agree that discussion of NO should not be allowed in the Traditionalist section. This type of discussion is hurtful and confusing to Catholics like me who are fairly new to the Church, and to those who are considering converting.
 
thechrismyster said:
this traditional Catholic forum should be abolished. it creates schism and divides the faithful.

In fact, i call on Catholic Answers to do away with the 'Traditional Catholic" forum, right now, right here. You promote the ideology of a group that is hypercritical of major Chuch councils as well as the normative style of liturgy.
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooo…

Better to keep much of the commentary we see here in one forum under “Traditional Catholicism” then have it negatively impact the rest of the forums. I used to read the liturgical forum and it was routinely spammed by dissenters who claimed to be “Traditional Catholics.”

Now that I attend the Tridentine Mass each month I enjoy reading some of the comments here – not all, but some of them.
 
Cat said:
And I, too, resent the implication that the NO Mass that is totally approved by the Catholic Church is somehow lacking compared to the TLM.
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“We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren, that is, for the Protestants.”
  • Archbishop Bugnini, L’Osservatore Romano, March 19, 1965.
Resent it all you want. That doesn’t make it untrue.
 
Melchior said:
A little education on liturgics would show you that and Anglo-Catholic Mass is closer to the old mass than the Novus Ordo. t was a statement of fact not preference.
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They came from the same Latin Rite prior to Trent. So?
Did you know there is an Anglican Use Catholic Mass?
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Yes, and I understand it’s been compromised a little. Read the words of Consecration. Or are we supposed to ignore that?
 
Cat said:
Who do the Traditionalists associate with, anyway?! Where do you get these ideas?

I find a lot of the theories on this thread to be utterly fantastical and totally unrealistic. You’re dreaming.

And I, too, resent the implication that the NO Mass that is totally approved by the Catholic Church is somehow lacking compared to the TLM. I agree that discussion of NO should not be allowed in the Traditionalist section. This type of discussion is hurtful and confusing to Catholics like me who are fairly new to the Church, and to those who are considering converting.
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Very few “traditionalists” were against the Vatican II liturgy constitution of 1963. Even Archbishop Lefebvre voted for it, and as late as 1965 he praised certain aspects of the renewal.

I believe the reason these liturgy discussions became polarized is that the Vatican II reforms were carried out by extreme liturgists who pushed through change after change after change, whether the changes were originally “approved” or not-- communion in the hand, altar girls and so on. Rome will have to deal with this situation, and clearly the recent motu proprio was a first step. Call it a course correction; call it perestroika.

My heart goes out to Cat and others who are feel hurt, bewildered
or disoriented by the discussion.
 
Pope Benedict supports both the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine Mass … so do I.

It should be as simple as:

Latin for those who want it.
Vernacular (English, Spanish, etc.) for those who want it.
Reverence for all.

Pax et Bonum, 🙂

~~ the phoenix
 
the_phoenix said:
Pope Benedict supports both the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine Mass … so do I.

It should be as simple as:

Latin for those who want it.
Vernacular (English, Spanish, etc.) for those who want it.
Reverence for all.

Pax et Bonum, 🙂

~~ the phoenix
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Amen.
 
the_phoenix said:
Pope Benedict supports both the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine Mass … so do I.

It should be as simple as:

Latin for those who want it.
Vernacular (English, Spanish, etc.) for those who want it.
Reverence for all.

Pax et Bonum, 🙂

~~ the phoenix
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:amen:
 
BobP123 said:
Too late. They let the heretics speak at Vatican II. 😉
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So? I believe Martin Luther was allowed to speak at his trial - does that mean that the Church capitulated to him? :nope:
bear06 said:
:amen:
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:amen: x 2. Please folks, enough of this totally juvenile ‘my Mass is better than your Mass’ BS - on both sides. I won’t say I’ve never been guilty, but I hope I’m capable enough of learning from my mistakes to be heartily sick of the squabbling.

Both forms are perfectly valid, and it’s anathematised by Trent to suggest that ANY valid rite of the Church promotes impiety. That includes the NO, folks.

The EF is permitted with or without support of your local bishop, provided there are enough people and priests who want it. And if people don’t??? Suck it up. The Chuch ain’t and has never been a supermarket where you can demand that every brand of everything be available all the time.

And if the position was reversed and TLM - or better yet something like a Syro-Malankara Rite Mass (or DL if that’s the proper term), was the only option available to me, I’d go and be grateful.

Remember how many Catholics have lived and do live in remote areas and would consider themselves lucky to have ANY Mass regularly available to them - a lot of our troops, for example. Surely you can suck up your differences and dislikes (at least on matters that aren’t actual abuses) for their sake?

Comparing EF to OF is like comparing Porsches to Hummers - for one thing they’re too different for much real meaningful comparison. For another it’s a waste of an exercise only indulged in by those without anything worthwhile to think about.
 
While I would support anyone who attends the TLM, I think that some traditionalists here posting think that they are more closer to God than those who are not like them. Or that they think they are better.

I agree that this sub forum has caused divisions. At times as bad as the Non Catholic faiths subforum, which is not right surely. :cool:
 
bear06 said:
OK, I changed my mind. Shut down the forum. :rotfl:

BTW, that was a joke. I don’t mean it!😉
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The only ones who want to see the TC forum abolished are the ones who want one sided discussions. They don’t want (name removed by moderator)ut from anyone with traditional views.
 
paramedicgirl said:
The only ones who want to see the TC forum abolished are the ones who want one sided discussions. They don’t want (name removed by moderator)ut from anyone with traditional views.
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You don’t think this is a divisive topic? I don’t think anyone wants to shut down discussion, but many of the topics in the Traditional Catholic section are divisive. I rarely come here and to be honest when I have ventured here, some of the Traditionalists have truly turned me off from ever going to a TLM. It’s certainly something to think about…

Jennifer
 
Melchior said:
I hope not. The idea behind the changes in VII were good and had good motives. Mass in the vernacular that is beautiful is in my mind, the ideal. It can be done amazingly. Just visit any high church Anglican parish to see how it should be done.

I do think beautiful English should be used and guitars and hippy music should be banned from the Mass. It should be solemn and sacred and the music, incense etc should reflect the importance of the occasion. Bring back chant and the ancient hymns. Wighty theology is in them. I can’t stand the trite ditties from the 70’s and 80’s.

Mel
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The guitar is a beautiful instrument and can be used for a variety of different things including sacred music. Don’t start making your own doctrine, based on something as petty as instrument choice.
 
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