Do you think that the Novus Ordo will ever be abolished?

[havemercy]

I don’t know what will happen to the NO. It may go away. That would probably be a good thing, but the horrifying prospect about its simply disappearing is that it will include the exodus of Catholics to Protestantism, which is already happening now.

The Classic Roman Rite will, indeed, be restored to its former usage. Probably not in my lifetime though, unfortunately. It is forever because it is true to the spirit of the liturgy.

Instaurare omnia in Christo, per Mariam.

 

[BobP123]

Retroactively? Which of his predecessors held it was valid?

So how does one invalidate something that wasn’t valid in the first place? Perhaps you can help them rewrite the history books?

If there is anything as biased and one sided, it’s Fr. Trinchard’s works on the NO.

You bet. Perhaps that’s why I had an enjoyable conversation with him once. He also has a master’s degree in physics which I found fascinating. He has come up with some interesting theories in that department as well. Smart guy.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

1. NO families using birth control and politicians not fighting against abortion.
2. Traditional familes having 5-10 kids some of which actually become priests religious.

I take offense to that. My husband and I attend the NO Mass, use NFP and have discussed having a large family.
DO NOT assume that just because someone attends the NO Mass that s/he is someone less Catholic.

 

[Glowwriter]

Abolished? No. How can it be when it’s perfectly valid. Might it go out of style (so to speak) in time, perhaps, though not for a very long time. I like both Masses, and have seen both done very beautifully.

 

[thedavidwilson]

I take offense to that. My husband and I attend the NO Mass, use NFP and have discussed having a large family.
DO NOT assume that just because someone attends the NO Mass that s/he is someone less Catholic.

Are you all NO families? Are you the majority of NO families? No.

The majority of Catholics in the US either use or condone the use of birth control. Many of the are pro choice like Pelosi and Kerry. You will find far fewer of these people in more traditional Churches.

 

[Daprato]

The Tridentine Mass is already dying in my deanery. It’s every week at 10:00am at a nice, centrally located parish and receives strong support from the bishop (who drove its implementation) and the pastor of the parish.

It started out with a bang and is really beginning to fizzle. Those who predicted a “TLM-only parish very soon” seem to have largely disappeared…

 

[thedavidwilson]

The Tridentine Mass is already dying in my deanery. It’s every week at 10:00am at a nice, centrally located parish and receives strong support from the bishop (who drove its implementation) and the pastor of the parish.

It started out with a bang and is really beginning to fizzle. Those who predicted a “TLM-only parish very soon” seem to have largely disappeared…

Our Tridentine only parish has doubled since the Motu Propio.

 

[Daprato]

Are you all NO families? Are you the majority of NO families? No.

The majority of Catholics in the US either use or condone the use of birth control. Many of the are pro choice like Pelosi and Kerry. You will find far fewer of these people in more traditional Churches.

Talk about divisive…

No, I’m part of a Catholic-Christian family.

 

[Daprato]

Our Tridentine only parish has doubled since the Motu Propio.

Why? Didn’t it already exist prior to the MP? Why did the MP “double” the attendance? And what is the attendance by the way?
Here we began at a little over 400. Now we’re just above 100. It will be interesting to see what tomorrow looks like…

 

[thedavidwilson]

Talk about divisive…

No, I’m part of a Catholic-Christian family.

The Truth is always devisive. If you are popular and fit into our society then you are probably not living a Catholic life. We are IN this world not OF this world.

btw Catholic=Christian

 

[thedavidwilson]

Why? Didn’t it already exist prior to the MP? Why did the MP “double” the attendance? And what is the attendance by the way?
Here we began at a little over 400. Now we’re just above 100. It will be interesting to see what tomorrow looks like…

Yes. It was an indult Mass. The Motu Propio got the word out. Many people came by to out of curiosity and most of them stuck around. I have heard many of our parishers say that after being so many years in the Catholic Church they had finally come home and found a place that fit what Catholcism should be: sacred and reverent.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Are you all NO families? Are you the majority of NO families? No.

The majority of Catholics in the US either use or condone the use of birth control. Many of the are pro choice like Pelosi and Kerry. You will find far fewer of these people in more traditional Churches.

Really? The majority? Have you polled each and every NO family in the world, or are you making a sweeping judgment of American NO families?

My husband applied to some law schools out in Arizona, and I believe one is Tucson. I was excited when I saw the Latin mass community there. But now, I don’t think I want to be a part of such a group, esp. if it is filled with people like you who feel that they are “more Catholic” because they attend the TLM or whatever reasons you seem to have come up with about TLM Catholics being better than NO Catholics.

 

[Daprato]

Really? The majority? Have you polled each and every NO family in the world, or are you making a sweeping judgment of American NO families?

My husband applied to some law schools out in Arizona, and I believe one is Tucson. I was excited when I saw the Latin mass community there. But now, I don’t think I want to be a part of such a group, esp. if it is filled with people like you who feel that they are “more Catholic” because they attend the TLM or whatever reasons you seem to have come up with about TLM Catholics being better than NO Catholics.

Amen.

 

[Daprato]

Yes. It was an indult Mass. The Motu Propio got the word out. Many people came by to out of curiosity and most of them stuck around. I have heard many of our parishers say that after being so many years in the Catholic Church they had finally come home and found a place that fit what Catholcism should be: sacred and reverent.

Your comments do not sound accurate.

 

[thedavidwilson]

Really? The majority? Have you polled each and every NO family in the world, or are you making a sweeping judgment of American NO families?

Attend a few traditional parishes and I think your will see that the majority of the people there take the Church’s teachings on birth control to heart. God bless.

boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/11/15/bishops_stress_sexual_issues_and_warn_on_communion/
Bishops stress sexual issues and warn on Communion
By Michael Paulson, Globe Staff | November 15, 2006

BALTIMORE – The Catholic bishops of the United States overwhelmingly approved new documents yesterday, exhorting Catholics to refrain from using artificial birth control, describing gay sex as immoral, and saying that anyone who disagrees with key church teachings should not take Communion.

The statements mark the first time the bishops have attempted to explain and offer guidance on longstanding church teachings, in light of recent controversies.

The bishops said current events, including the legalization of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts and the 2004 presidential candidacy of Senator John F. Kerry, a Catholic Democrat from Massachusetts who supports abortion rights, prompted them to speak out. They acknowledged that most married Catholics – 96 percent, according to their own estimate – use birth control, and the bishops said they recognize that the church’s teachings on homosexuality are contested in American society.

“To be a Catholic is a challenge, and to be a Catholic requires a certain choice, and these are the choices that are consistent with the Gospel of Jesus,” the chairman of the bishops’ doctrine committee, Bishop Arthur J. Serratelli of Paterson, N.J., said during a press conference…

catholicplanet.com/articles/article50.htm
The Real Crisis in the Church

As the twenty-first century begins, the Catholic Church finds itself in the midst of turmoil and crisis. Though the recent sex scandals are a significant setback for the Church, the despicable acts of a few bad priests have magnified a broader problem. Most American Catholics increasingly put more faith in society’s values than they do in the Church’s values. Many Americans still identify themselves as Catholics. However, the spirit of Catholicism is rarely found in contemporary American society. In the twilight of his life, Pope John Paul II faces enormous challenges and overwhelming pressure. The Catholic Church has seemingly lost its spiritually-transforming effect in the United States and throughout the modern world. The crisis is relatively clear-cut: There is a basic lack of commitment among Catholics to the teachings of the Church. Specific hot-button topics can illustrate this point. However, the crisis must be analyzed from a more general perspective in order to fully grasp the real problems. Americans simply put more faith in society’s values than they do in the Church’s values.

The issues of birth control and abortion can be used to illustrate the basic lack of commitment among Catholics to the teachings of the Church. The Church’s official position on birth control is very clear. In Humane Vitae, Pope Paul VI states, “Consequently, it is a serious error to think that a whole married life of otherwise normal relations can justify sexual intercourse which is deliberately contraceptive and so intrinsically wrong.” It is also clear that many Catholics openly reject the birth control teaching of the Church. In Sounding Board, Kathy Coffey provides surveys and letters to demonstrate this point. One survey reveals that 81% of Catholics believe that married Catholic couples have the right to follow their conscience in deciding whether to use artificial means of birth control. Another survey shows that 75% of Catholics disagree that in order to uphold the teaching of the Church, it’s important not to reverse the official teaching on birth control. Many Catholics feel that the Church has tightly held to its teaching on birth control without considering the views of most lay people…

 

[thedavidwilson]

Your comments do not sound accurate.

How so? These are my personal observations.

Many of our parishers are in their 20’s or college students. On the whole they have begun to experience life and have found the happy clappy masses of the NO not to be a refuge from the pagan world. They like the structure, the quiet and the reverence of the Latin Mass. The latin mass movement is largely a youth movement. That is why the traditional seminaries and convents are growing and the more liberal ones are struggling. I think in 10 years you will see a surge in the numbers of priests as these kids graduate from seminary.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

It is also clear that many Catholics openly reject the birth control teaching of the Church. In Sounding Board, Kathy Coffey provides surveys and letters to demonstrate this point. One survey reveals that 81% of Catholics believe that married Catholic couples have the right to follow their conscience in deciding whether to use artificial means of birth control. Another survey shows that 75% of Catholics disagree that in order to uphold the teaching of the Church, it’s important not to reverse the official teaching on birth control. Many Catholics feel that the Church has tightly held to its teaching on birth control without considering the views of most lay people…

Then that is an issue that the Church needs to deal with and not a decision that you need to make an impose on others.
Again- don’t make sweeping assumptions about people based on which mass s/he goes to. I hate to remind you that you too, like me, are a sinner. We all fall short of the glory of God.
Preach the Gospel to all the World, and if necessary, use words. And, right now, your words aren’t preaching the Gospel.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I have been told that I am very “all about the rules”, but some of the posts on here are just taking the cake.
I used to be uber-traditional, but constantly telling people that they were wrong about this, that and the other just got exhausting. I don’t know how some of you do it.
When I came to terms with the fact that it was what I was doing, and not what I was saying, that was making people stop and talk to me that I realized the immense joy there is living a Christian life and attracting people to you because you are living as Christ commanded. It was then, when people saw I actually lived what I preached that I was able to talk to them.

I walk by the sidewalk preacher on campus three times a week because he, in my opinion, has no right to be there yelling at us. Why is he not living the quiet life of a good Christian and influencing those around him with his actions?

How do parents teach their children proper behavior? The parents model it. How do young adults learn what a healthy relationship is? It was modeled by their parents. Sure, there was probably a discussion, but it was most likely based on the child seeing what was right and asking about it.

 

[thedavidwilson]

I was excited when I saw the Latin mass community there. But now, I don’t think I want to be a part of such a group, esp. if it is filled with people like you who feel that they are “more Catholic” because they attend the TLM or whatever reasons you seem to have come up with about TLM Catholics being better than NO Catholics.

I do not feel I am more Catholic. I am a sinner. Latin Mass parishes tend to represent the hard issues of the faith to its parishoners.

The people at a parish should be a secondary reason for attending. You choose a parish on how well it represents and teaches the teachings of the Church. If you have a priest who does not get on the pulpit and say that things such as birth control, self abuse and homosexuality are mortals sins then there is a problem. We go to the Holy Sacrafice of the Mass to be with God not for a social gathering. This has been true since the early days of the Church. The socializing is important but should be reseved for the coffee donuts afterwards. A good measure of a parish is how many people go to confession and how many people remain seated during communion. At my parish there is a line at the confessional before every Mass and until the Gospel is read when confessions have to stop. I have been in many NO parishes and I have never seen this.

 

[thedavidwilson]

Then that is an issue that the Church needs to deal with and not a decision that you need to make an impose on others.
Again- don’t make sweeping assumptions about people based on which mass s/he goes to. I hate to remind you that you too, like me, are a sinner. We all fall short of the glory of God.
Preach the Gospel to all the World, and if necessary, use words. And, right now, your words aren’t preaching the Gospel.

This is not a sweeping generalization it is logic. If you believe the bishops’ firgure and the fact that most parishes are NO then it follows that most people at NO parishes use or condone birth control. This could also be true for latin parishes but I doubt it. Traditional priests tend to point out that birth control is a mortal sin and you should not receive communion. I think if you are against this teaching you would not stick around at a Latin Mass parish.