Do you think that this Cathedral is ugly?

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I think it is ugly. Not as ugly as some I have seen, but I think a person should be able to walk in a Catholic Church and feel like they’ve stepped out of time and space and into heaven.

Here are just a few of what I think a Catholic Church should have:
  • Mosaics along the walls depicting the life of Christ and of the Saints.
  • Stations of the Cross that look realistic and are big enough to focus on while praying.
  • Traditional confessionals (with a screen in them- and not just chicken wire either!)
  • Communion rails that are nicely designed, and for the sake of us heavier folks, nicely padded.
  • A high altar with a reredos that towers above everything else, is full of statues and has a nice tabernacle- so that everybody walking in knows without a doubt that we hold with high regard whatever happens on that altar.
  • Pews with kneelers (again, nicely padded)
  • A nice organ, and a good organist and choir that is knowledgeable in the music of the Latin Rite- in all periods of its history.
  • Stained-glass windows on the walls of the Church…too patriarchial…:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
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JimG:
It just has plain windows. I would prefer some stained glass.

(like this.)
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That one is nice! KCK is only an hour away too. I should visit there sometime. It looks nicer than our Cathedral- Both the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception In KCMO was heavily gutted in the 70’s, and the Cathedral of Saint Joseph in St. Joseph was too (though it was always rather simple, from what I can tell from old pictures).
 
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m134e5:
I think it is ugly. Not as ugly as some I have seen, but I think a person should be able to walk in a Catholic Church and feel like they’ve stepped out of time and space and into heaven.

Here are just a few of what I think a Catholic Church should have:
  • Mosaics along the walls depicting the life of Christ and of the Saints.
  • Stations of the Cross that look realistic and are big enough to focus on while praying.
  • Traditional confessionals (with a screen in them- and not just chicken wire either!)
  • Communion rails that are nicely designed, and for the sake of us heavier folks, nicely padded.
  • A high altar with a reredos that towers above everything else, is full of statues and has a nice tabernacle- so that everybody walking in knows without a doubt that we hold with high regard whatever happens on that altar.
  • Pews with kneelers (again, nicely padded)
  • A nice organ, and a good organist and choir that is knowledgeable in the music of the Latin Rite- in all periods of its history.
  • Stained-glass windows on the walls of the Church…too patriarchial…:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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You forgot oppressive 😛

At Jesuit Church we had vestal probably-not-so Virgins flailing around in silk gowns with banners and bowls of incense, likely being offered to the mother goddess. I remember a priest friend who once was going to hold a retreat there at school and the campus minister nun was upset because he was planning on saying the Rosary. Her response was something to the effect of, “We don’t pray the rosary in OUR community.” Anyway, sorry, don’t want to hijack the thread. I’ll just conclude it by getting somewhat back on topic: They created this large ecumenical worship space for Mass (and for various, assorted protestant, wiccan, feminist, etc) services. Jesus, they stuck in a closet to the side with enough room for 4 chairs and a small lamp. To me, modern Church architecture reflects this theology. Its about us, not God, not Christ, just us and our “feeling like we are church.” Jesus is no longer the eucharist, but “We are eucharist without walls for one another,” (gagging now and puking). Anyway, that is another reason I can’t stand modern architecture.
 
I actually like it… just not as a Cathedral. I wouldn’t mind at all attending mass at that church, and wouldn’t mind it for my local parish. However, I must say, there is a bit of Romance that you get from a gothic type Cathedral that is really lost in this building. Also, that Cathedra is just plain silly. I mean, really… what bishop would want that to be the official seat of his church. It doesn’t even look comfortable. I couldn’t imagin sitting through an ordination in that thing and then having to ordain men to the priesthood from my mother’s kitchen chair… BLECH. Oh yeah, and the processional cross is a bit lame. It is all just a bit lacking for a cathedral.

But like I said, if it were a local parish I think it would be nice.
 
I wasn’t particularly impressed with the Cathedral. Particularly the crucifix on the back wall, and the very plain Bishop’s chair.

However, try this one out (if you think the pics are bad, try going there and seeing it for yourself):

saginaw.org/religious_life/ordination.htm

My apologizes to those pictured (and named) on that website. They had nothing to do with the design, but it’s the only place I could find pictures.

So, you see-it could be much worse.
 
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MichCath:
I wasn’t particularly impressed with the Cathedral. Particularly the crucifix on the back wall, and the very plain Bishop’s chair.

However, try this one out (if you think the pics are bad, try going there and seeing it for yourself):

saginaw.org/religious_life/ordination.htm

My apologizes to those pictured (and named) on that website. They had nothing to do with the design, but it’s the only place I could find pictures.

So, you see-it could be much worse.
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Was this a traditional cathedral that was later ruined, er I mean, renovated? 😃
 
Pittsburgh is an old city, there is a neogothic Catholic cathedral, and also neogothic Presbyterian and Episcopalian cathedrals as well. But Dodge City out in the old west isn’t Pittsburgh.

For the location that its in, the choice of a more spread out style seems to fit, although I haven’t seen the Dodge City cathedral personally. I don’t think there is an official architectural style the church has to build its cathedrals in.

The old Dodge City cathedral wasn’t gothic either, more of a mexican style, even though it was build by Cram and Ferguson who built 3 impressive Gothic structure in Pittsburgh (as well as the very impressive St. John the Divine in Manhatten.

The science of architecture is about fitting the building to the location you have to work with, and gothic just doesn’t fit very well in western Kansas.
 
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Kielbasi:
Pittsburgh is an old city, there is a neogothic Catholic cathedral, and also neogothic Presbyterian and Episcopalian cathedrals as well. But Dodge City out in the old west isn’t Pittsburgh.

For the location that its in, the choice of a more spread out style seems to fit, although I haven’t seen the Dodge City cathedral personally. I don’t think there is an official architectural style the church has to build its cathedrals in.
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I wonder if there is a holster rack in the back. Now, that would redeem the whole Cathedral in my eyes. I think it would great to have a place in the back of the Church where you could hang up your guns during Mass. Also, you could do gun blessings there.
 
It does have a crucifix. A lot of churches don’t anymore so thats a good sign.
 
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DreadVandal:
Was this a traditional cathedral that was later ruined, er I mean, renovated? 😃
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The Cathedral you’re refering to at saginaw.org/religious_life/ordination.htm was built in the early 1900’s, and became the Cathedral in the early 1930’s.

It was renovated in 1977, and was hailed by the then-Bishop (not the one on the website) as being much truer and much more in line with how Cathedrals should look.

The pictures do not do it justice.
 
As a retirement gift to the Archdiocese of Milwaukee, Rembert Weakland ruined their cathedral. Its not as bad as it could have been, but still, its very sad. It was a beautiful German Cathedral turned into an AmChurch “spirit of Vatican II” festival hall. The Cathedral in Chicago is also hideous. Its one of the most hideous Church buildings I"ve ever seen.

stjohncathedral.org/

Its not totally hideous, but still, you should have seen it before they ruined it. They say its the Mother Church of the diocese and I can’t help wanting to replace Mother Church with Mother Ship.
 
I guess I’m spoiled, if anyone ever is in Omaha, NE, check out St. Cecilia’s Cathedral-that is what a Cathedral is supposed to be. It really lifts your mind up toward God with the splendor that is most appropriate for God’s House. Still has a high altar, still has communion rails. The new altar even looks old-like it had been there from when the old altar and woodwork was built. Tabernacle is still in the high altar (where is should be in most cases).
Many modern traditionalists are dominated by a reverse dictatorship of chronology…older is simply better.
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Older isn’t necessarily better, it is just that most “modern” archetecture is gawdawful ugly.
One seems to forget the historical origins of Church architecture. The ancient basilicas of Europe are often converted buildings/temples such as the Pantheon or St. Peter’s in Geneva (rebuild numerous times and currently Gothic though controlled by the Calvinists).
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Well, although I certainly don’t agree with their religion, at least the pagans of ancient Rome had good taste. Granted, the Pantheon was a pagan temple-but it also wasn’t a horrid eyesore.
Where new churches were build, they reflected the architectual abilities of the builders and the architectual style associated with religion.
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Here in America I would hope we would still be able to cut stone and lay brick, and design a Catholic church like a proper Catholic church.
As theology progressed and changed architecture has reflected that change, ranging from the Byzantine St; Mark’s in Venice to Cluniac and Cistercian inspirations or Baroque and Roccocco architecture.
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None of these were radical departures from each other.
Modern architecture is just following an ancient tradition of change and adaption.
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Except again that modern architecture just doesn’t cut it. It is like modern art-done by people that are either too lazy to paint like a Master or are just talentless hacks trying to sell new clothes to the Emperor, so to say.
 
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DreadVandal:
As a retirement gift to the Archdiocese of Milwaukee, Rembert Weakland ruined their cathedral. Its not as bad as it could have been, but still, its very sad. It was a beautiful German Cathedral turned into an AmChurch “spirit of Vatican II” festival hall. The Cathedral in Chicago is also hideous. Its one of the most hideous Church buildings I"ve ever seen.

stjohncathedral.org/

Its not totally hideous, but still, you should have seen it before they ruined it. They say its the Mother Church of the diocese and I can’t help wanting to replace Mother Church with Mother Ship.
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well, its not that bad, but i do agree the rather harsh and even butch BVM isnt appreciated.

the altar crucifix, just eww…

The layout is like they were trying to do the “semicircle” seating and miserably failed due to the shape of the building.

The Seattle cathedral, St James I think pulled off the church in the round thing (altar is at the juction of the cruciform building). Its actually a very beautiful cathedral despite the locale (Seattle isnt what you’s call a haven for traditional religion) however one thing that is awkward is that the cathedra, preist presider’s chair, ambo, and altar crucifix outside of the sncatuary proper. There was really no other way to do it and still have the central altar, but still it would have been nice. (oh and funny thing due to the 4-sided altar, no matter which side i sit on, the priest or bishop has always had his back to me)
 
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DreadVandal:
We don’t put in the stained glass windows because that would be too patriarchal and oppressive to the common people. At least that was the kind of thing I heard when in college at a Jesuit university.
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Wow, is this what the Jesuits are saying now? I grew up with the common people as well as stained glass windows, and nobody ever seemed to feel oppressed by the patriarchy or anyone else. (Although Sister Mary Lawrence was a bit oppressive in the 4th Grade.)
 
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JimG:
Wow, is this what the Jesuits are saying now? I grew up with the common people as well as stained glass windows, and nobody ever seemed to feel oppressed by the patriarchy or anyone else. (Although Sister Mary Lawrence was a bit oppressive in the 4th Grade.)
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Well, fortunately, I have not set foot within 500 miles of a Jesuit university in almost 8 years so I don’t know what they are saying now. But I have no reason to believe that it has anything to do with the one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic, Orthodox faith.
 
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