Do you think the Christ will return before the sun eventually destroys the earth?

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Christ will come and, contrary to fundamentalist opinion, will not destroy the earth, but will resurrect it as He did His body, thereby creating a new heaven and earth. Amen.
 
Deo_Volente said:
Grace & Peace!

I think in this discussion that it’s important not to confuse the end of Western Civilization with the End of the World unless one is clear that one is metaphorically conflating one’s own civilization with the entirety of the world.

Civilizations end. The Aztec civilization ended. The Mayan ended. The Egyptian ended. The Greco-Roman/Classical ended. They all end. Ours, too, will end. In the Spenglerian historical sense (which is not so far from the Toynbee sense), the guiding principle of Western or Faustian civilization has been the striving towards infinite space. No other culture has grappled with the infinite in the ways we do–infinite number series, infinite space, quantum physics, string theory. Kreeft suggests that our culture has not defined an end or summum bonum for itself. He’s quite wrong, actually, though the truth of the matter is not necessarily any more heartening–we wish to be endless. Our end is endlessness. Our particular technological gifts have given us the ability to partially achieve the goal–we can represent, extend, and perpetuate ourselves in an infinite number of variations and configurations through the media, through our commitment to virtuality, through the global movement of capital, through brand identification and mass production. The same culture which gave birth to the Gothic Cathedral and its infinite upward striving has given birth to the “Desert of the Real” of Baudrillard–the endless simulacrum. The cathedral and the desert are two sides of the same cultural coin; perhaps the conversion of the former into the latter has to do with mistaking the indefinite for the infinite.

Anyway: Western civilization is dying. It has been for a couple hundred years. Using Spengler’s cyclical model, we’re in a new imperial age during the bitterest winter of our culture. There will be no spring for us. Our civilization will implode (like the Classical, like the Aztec, etc.) and another will take its place. That’s the way the horrible wheels of history turn.

I suppose my point is this: we should not confuse the end of our civilization with the end of the world, otherwise we risk confusing the Second Coming with a historical event–that is, an event subject to the laws and exigencies of history. The Second Coming is the completion of the work of the Incarnation, and while it is true that the Incarnation occurred in time, it represented the rupturing of history–the movement of eternity into the field of time, the opening of history to eternity to accomplish the redemption of history. The Second Coming is the completion of that gesture.

While our civilization is important, so is every other civilization. Is our end sad or worrisome? Sure it is. Is it cause for universal or cosmic alarm? Only if we confuse our historical moment with the entire process of history.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!
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The day Western Civilization completely gives up Christianity, which is already happening in Western Europe, will be the day it will perish. When the Christian West perishes, the entire world will descend into barbarism. Christianity built Western Civilization. Western Civilization united the world and became its standard for progress, and when and if those dynamics change, we can expect anarchy, chaos and barbarism to sweep the world. Yes…this view is extremely politically incorrect. We’ve been conditioned to believe everyone worldwide is equally charitable and progressive, and that the most important thing in life is to be ‘nice’ and never assert the truthfulness of our own belief systems. Of course that’s a fantasy, one which could kill us and lay waste to most of humanity. Historically speaking, Christian Civilization had to be fought for. That fight isn’t over, and never will be.😦
 
Grace & Peace!
KingAlfred said:
The day Western Civilization completely gives up Christianity, which is already happening in Western Europe, will be the day it will perish. When the Christian West perishes, the entire world will descend into barbarism. Christianity built Western Civilization. Western Civilization united the world and became its standard for progress, and when and if those dynamics change, we can expect anarchy, chaos and barbarism to sweep the world. Yes…this view is extremely politically incorrect. We’ve been conditioned to believe everyone worldwide is equally charitable and progressive, and that the most important thing in life is to be ‘nice’ and never assert the truthfulness of our own belief systems. Of course that’s a fantasy, one which could kill us and lay waste to most of humanity. Historically speaking, Christian Civilization had to be fought for. That fight isn’t over, and never will be.😦
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I appreciate your sentiment, though I don’t completely agree with it, particularly I think it would be wrong to confuse Western Civilization with Christianity. As the Saints and the Fathers attest, Christianity in one way or another has always been with us, and there is no reason to assume that it would not be with us in the future as well, particularly given Our Lord’s promise that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. Western Civilization is not the Church–no promise was made that the gates of hell would not prevail against Western Civilization.

In short, Western Civilization is not eternal. Jesus Christ is eternal.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!
 
Deo_Volente said:
Grace & Peace!

I appreciate your sentiment, though I don’t completely agree with it, particularly I think it would be wrong to confuse Western Civilization with Christianity. As the Saints and the Fathers attest, Christianity in one way or another has always been with us, and there is no reason to assume that it would not be with us in the future as well, particularly given Our Lord’s promise that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. Western Civilization is not the Church–no promise was made that the gates of hell would not prevail against Western Civilization.

In short, Western Civilization is not eternal. Jesus Christ is eternal.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!
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Not to be a “stick in the mud”, Mark, but Christ said that the gates of hell would not prevail against His CHURCH, not various forms of Christianity.
 
Grace & Peace!
peary said:
Not to be a “stick in the mud”, Mark, but Christ said that the gates of hell would not prevail against His CHURCH, not various forms of Christianity.
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You’re not being a stick in the mud at all, peary. I’ll wager that we just have somewhat different views on ecclesiology.

But the point is still the same. Even if one believes that the Church uniquely and fully subsists in only the Roman Catholic Church, Western Civilization is not the Roman Catholic Church. It simply does not follow that the end of the West will be the end of the Church, however you wish to define her.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!
 
AHapka said:
Perhaps true, perhaps not. But I don’t think that will have any effect on the sun’s life.
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The point is it’s irrelevant. We’re going to blow ourselves up in the near future, nevermind what happens billions of years from now.
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
I don’t see this happening. I see hard times, but not as you describe it.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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Iran + nukes + Israel + American oil dependency + America’s alliance with Israel = THE END OF LIFE ON EARTH.
 
Yes. I think that Christ will return before the sun eventually destroys the earth.
 
Deo_Volente said:
Grace & Peace!

You’re not being a stick in the mud at all, peary. I’ll wager that we just have somewhat different views on ecclesiology.

But the point is still the same. Even if one believes that the Church uniquely and fully subsists in only the Roman Catholic Church, Western Civilization is not the Roman Catholic Church. It simply does not follow that the end of the West will be the end of the Church, however you wish to define her.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!
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**Oh, I never implied that. One would think that the Lord would invest something to keep Christianity in the West since it wass a most successful venture to begin with.
 
Don’t shoot me, but I suspect Barak Obama will bring about the Apocalypse. The world is in for some serious conflict, very soon.
 
i dont think we should be bothered with matters of God. Let us just live everyday as if we were going to be before the judgement seat that very day.
 
According to the Mayan calender that was created over 1000 years ago (and still accurately predicts eclipses today), Judgement day will be December 21st - 23rd, 2012.

13moon.com/prophecy%20page.htm

It’s an interesting read 😛
 
Trainer5 said:
According to the Mayan calender that was created over 1000 years ago (and still accurately predicts eclipses today), Judgement day will be December 21st - 23rd, 2012.

13moon.com/prophecy%20page.htm

It’s an interesting read 😛
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Well, lets just wait and see. Either the Mayans, who were pagan are correct, or Jesus, the 2nd person of the blessed Trinity was correct when he said, “Only the Father knows, not even the Son”. I am betting on Jesus. 😃
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
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