Do You Think There Will Be an Official Postponement Beyond Nov 27, 2011 For the Implementation of the New Translation of the Roman Missal by the USCCB

[GRATEFULONEjim]

Not a chance of it being delayed. The missals that start at Advent are already being printed. This is going to be a good thing for the Church. It might even have parishioners helping parishioners. (Oh, the humanity!!!) It may foster new friendships between older members who struggle with change and newer members who are just learning the ropes. Embrace the new translation for what it is meant to be (a fix on what took place when Vatican II was unrolled). This should be an opportunity for all parishes and each and every parishioner to grow closer to one another. The only thing is… Will we let it?

 

[laszlo]

According to Vatican II, the Mass was intended to be said in Latin, where the (secular) law allows it. Nowhere was the all-vernacular-all-the-time intended.

On that time either the hierarchy and the sensus fidelium felt clearly that the Mass ans an affair between the priest and Christ excluding the people, reducing their role to spectators (without even hearing the word) is wrong. However in the previous 400 years that was the strict rule, and everyone was afraid of the sudden change.

From that point on the Church promoted the change, and it resulted in complete Chaos.

In 1970 either the hierarchy and the lower clergy, and the people expected that the New Missal allowing the exclusive vernacular will bring order. In Hungary it did, and I suppose so did in Poland.

In Western Europe and the US the promoters of the People’s Church took the leadership, and used the change to promote their ideas. It took 40 years to turn the tide. Not the vernacular is to be removed, God wants our understanding, our feeling, all of our senses in the Mass; the excesses, the human centered Mass has to be turned back o God.

The Latin language has no power whatsoever to do so, it would only alienate the majority of the people from the Masses.

 

[halleone]

It is not going to be big deal. I have done a number of workshops already and the response has been very positive and no one seemed to think this was going to be too difficult a transition. I think a lot will have to do with how the priests present it…if they introduce it in a positive light the response will be positive…if they are negative about it that will be reflected in the people’s acceptance of it.

Well said. It is coming whether we do or do not want it, so why fight it. Some of us older folks will take longer to learn it, but there isn’t a time-line for learning that I am aware of.

 

[ProVobis]

In Western Europe and the US the promoters of the People’s Church took the leadership, and used the change to promote their ideas. It took 40 years to turn the tide. Not the vernacular is to be removed, God wants our understanding, our feeling, all of our senses in the Mass; the excesses, the human centered Mass has to be turned back o God.

Yes, but how does a one-size-fits-all translation by committee make God’s word that much more understandable to everyone equally? Whether Latin or not, it still needs to be explained or paraphrased or interpreted to certain parishioners who may not be as theologically astute as others. So far there has been no evidence that the one-size-fits-all translations of the Mass have increased the understanding of the significance of the Mass, except perhaps in those countries where they never had the Mass prior to 40 years ago.

The Latin language has no power whatsoever to do so, it would only alienate the majority of the people from the Masses.

Today that’s probably true, but Christian Latin has had a lot of ups and downs in its history, having been brutalized by those speaking in barbaric tongues even as early as the 6th century, but restored by the eleventh century. Then came the Reformation period several centuries later which apparently still continues with very much force, having already created over 20,000 denominations of Christians, all with different interpretations of God’s word. Speaking of alienation.

 

[laszlo]

It is interesting that you reject the one size fit all for the traslation, but recommend it for the original.

My philosophy is that an imperfect help (e.g. travel by bus) is much better than nothing, so need to walking.

Apparently in this aspect the Church is like the climate in our sphere. There are winters, when everything is frozen, and summer when everything is growing. Both are necessary. No winter = roaches; no summer = very meager diet.

Yes, but how does a one-size-fits-all translation by committee make God’s word that much more understandable to everyone equally? Whether Latin or not, it still needs to be explained or paraphrased or interpreted to certain parishioners who may not be as theologically astute as others. So far there has been no evidence that the one-size-fits-all translations of the Mass have increased the understanding of the significance of the Mass, except perhaps in those countries where they never had the Mass prior to 40 years ago.

Today that’s probably true, but Christian Latin has had a lot of ups and downs in its history, having been brutalized by those speaking in barbaric tongues even as early as the 6th century, but restored by the eleventh century. Then came the Reformation period several centuries later which apparently still continues with very much force, having already created over 20,000 denominations of Christians, all with different interpretations of God’s word. Speaking of alienation.

 

[odile53]

Holy cards are available with the new responses for the Nicene Creed, the Confetior, etc are available at Aquinas and More, for about five dollars. I think most of us can handle “and with your spirit,” or even, “and with thy spirit” on our own. You can get a set of the new cards, stick them into your current Vatican II missal in the Ordinary where they belong, and be golden for the changeover. The artwork on them is pretty good, too. Since the readings aren’t going to change, you can still get some mileage out of your old missal this way.

From what I’ve seen of the new responses, they seem to be an improvement, at least grammatically and as literary works (the double conjunctive of “and also with you” grates on me whenever I have to say it.)

I personally think that most of us will get used to the changes in the peoples’ responses by the end of January 2012. And I’m equally sure that those of us who like to focus on nuances will continue to debate the merit of the changes at least for the next decade.

 

[ProVobis]

And I’m equally sure that those of us who like to focus on nuances will continue to debate the merit of the changes at least for the next decade.

And that will no doubt remain until the next set of changes. Anglicizing the Mass texts started in the 15th century. You’d think they would finally get it right but no one is sending the ICEL home after November, as far as I know.