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gam197
Guest
Our priest got a really bad case of the flu last year even though he had had the flu shot, so very sick.
When he came back, he told everyone for weeks to please not shake hands.
Do you think we should shake hands after praying the Our Father at Mass?
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When he came back, he told everyone for weeks to please not shake hands.
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pianistclare
Guest
Well, since we’re talking germs now…do your EMHC’s use hand sanitizer on the altar before they distribute communion?
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GangGreen
Guest
At Mass we should always have our focus on God. The sign of peace and holding hands during the Our Father take away from that and move the focus on to the laity.
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pnewton
Guest
From the GIRM:
The Rite of Peace
82. There follows the Rite of Peace, by which the Church entreats peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.
As for the actual sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by the Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. However, it is appropriate that each person, in a sober manner, offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest.
usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-2.cfm
I note this is something the USCCB is tasked with. I found this:
The Rite of Peace follows. The celebrant prays that the peace of Christ will fill our hearts, our families, our Church, our communities, and our world. As a sign of hope, the people extend to those around them a sign of peace, typically by shaking hands.
Do they do not bind one to shake hands, or limit it to this, but only say it is typical. If a priest has a reason to skip it, I think we need to remember the word “General” in General Instruction. I am fine with anything like this as long as it is not deviant to the point of being contrary to the purpose of the Mass or done out of an opinion one knows better than the Church. I sure do not like the word “abuse” thrown around lightly. It is almost as grating as “novus ordo.”
The Rite of Peace
82. There follows the Rite of Peace, by which the Church entreats peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.
As for the actual sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by the Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. However, it is appropriate that each person, in a sober manner, offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest.
usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-2.cfm
I note this is something the USCCB is tasked with. I found this:
The Rite of Peace follows. The celebrant prays that the peace of Christ will fill our hearts, our families, our Church, our communities, and our world. As a sign of hope, the people extend to those around them a sign of peace, typically by shaking hands.
Do they do not bind one to shake hands, or limit it to this, but only say it is typical. If a priest has a reason to skip it, I think we need to remember the word “General” in General Instruction. I am fine with anything like this as long as it is not deviant to the point of being contrary to the purpose of the Mass or done out of an opinion one knows better than the Church. I sure do not like the word “abuse” thrown around lightly. It is almost as grating as “novus ordo.”
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pnewton
Guest
I find that they bring to mind that the focus on God is never to be isolated from the community. Catholics never believe "Me and Jesus got our own thing going. " If Mass was all about God, there would be no need for Mass. We could all just come up like confession, receive communion and go off by ourselves to pray. I understand there is a backlash in parts with too much a feeling of community, but to deny this element is equally erroneous. We need to strike the middle. Come together as family, the true living Body of Christ and then receive what we are, to become what we receive.
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Adonia
Guest
The Our Father is a community prayer therefore I have no problem with holding hands with others or giving the sign of peace afterwards. For a long time I did not like this “sign of peace” but now my viewpoint has changed and I like it a lot.
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PelicnOne
Guest
many parishes invite the people to greet each other at the beginning of the Mass…that should be enough of the physical interactions with those around us we often do not know nor plan to…A priest friend of mine said (years ago) that those who decide such things were considering putting the Sign of Peace more toward the beginning of Mass, rather than where it is today. That could solve a lot of discomfort, but it never happened, so…perhaps he was simply wishing.
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maryjk
Guest
Shake hands? Yes.
Hold hands? Up to you and your pastor.
Hold hands? Up to you and your pastor.
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pianistclare
Guest
As an employee of the parish, I am always concerned about how people perceive what I do. I asked my pastor if he was OK with me not holding hands…and he said “that’s fine, don’t do it if it bothers you. It’s not even supposed to be done.”
So I asked, then why do we do it?
His answer: “Because they were doing it before I got here. It’s a long standing tradition for this parish. It’s not a hill I want to die on…it doesn’t bother me as much as it bothers you.
If the people like to pray with arms lifted together…I will allow it. There are far greater abuses I need to make an issue of.”
So,…I obey AND he gives me leeway for my own conscience.
Some priests call them the **BIG T **and *little t * traditions.
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DaveBj
Guest
I’m not a hand-holder or a hand-lifter, but I can recognize a smart priest when I hear one (or read what he said).
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MaryinsunnyFL
Guest
When I sit next to people who hold hands (majority at my church do) and the Our Father prayer is about to begin, I simply raise my folded hands high about my chin, lip level, bow my head slightly and close my eyes. This way I am not getting any looks, nor am I giving any. I continue through the prayer and then toward the middle or end look up at our beautiful crucifix front and center and pray the rest of the prayer focused on Jesus. I don’t look anywhere else. Many people don’t try to hold my hand, because I hold steadfast to praying in this way, and they know it.
When giving the sign of peace, it depends if I shake hands or not - many people just smile and say “peace be with you” - but if someone outstretches their hand I will reciprocate, but I keep my eyes on theirs, which seems to deter the handshake 9-10 times.
When giving the sign of peace, it depends if I shake hands or not - many people just smile and say “peace be with you” - but if someone outstretches their hand I will reciprocate, but I keep my eyes on theirs, which seems to deter the handshake 9-10 times.
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GangGreen
Guest
The community aspect of the Mass is the faithful offering their collected prayers for the sacrifice on the altar being done by the priest who is in persona Christi.
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ProVobis
Guest
So the obedience is to one’s conscience?
IOW, there doesn’t seem to be any way I could disobey the priest in this matter, is there? Speaking philosophically, of course.
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Kal2012
Guest
I hate holding hands during the Our Father. Usually, I’ll fold my hands and I really don’t care if other people are bothered or not.
My only exception is holding hands with my family. If my son wants to hold hands, then I’m okay with that.
I’m okay with shaking hands after the Our Father. However, I’m not into big hugs. I’m glad my parish doesn’t do that.
My only exception is holding hands with my family. If my son wants to hold hands, then I’m okay with that.
I’m okay with shaking hands after the Our Father. However, I’m not into big hugs. I’m glad my parish doesn’t do that.
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pianistclare
Guest
Well, I do have bills to pay.So the obedience is to one’s conscience?
IOW, there doesn’t seem to be any way I could disobey the priest in this matter, is there? Speaking philosophically, of course.
Obedience is to one who went to seminary. His due respect as our Pastor which he has certainly earned.
For me to publicly go against him would be imprudent and a bad example to the parish.
Having said that, I said that he respects my view…and sees where I am coming from.
He’s kind. He’s not a hit you over the head kind of guy.
My conscience and my better judgment says it’s a silly practice.
His conscience says " it’s a dangerous thing when we start thinking we are holier than others by what we do in the Church. *see “Pharisee logic”. LOL
I suppose you could say, I AM disobeying. I don’t hold hands if I can help it. But if people come out into the aisle and grab my hands…I smile and acquiesce…I don’t glare. And I look at him and he smiles at me. I am to show patience and love. People have left the faith over far less, as I’m sure you well know. It’s not a justification of their leaving of course…but I never want to be the person that pushed them out the door. If the do leave, let it be not because I snubbed them when we’re supposed to exhibiting peace.
Good post. Thanks for the discussion! Peace to you and Happy St. Patrick’s Week!
:irish3::shamrock2:
Father is patient and loves all his parishioners. Quintessentially Irish, I might add.
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Cat
Guest
When the priest asks the congregation to do something that is part of the Liturgy of the Mass, they should do it and not make up their own liturgy according to their preference.
Shaking hands may or may not be the way someone chooses to share the Sign of Peace; some people merely nod, wave, smile, or bow. The point is to somehow physically offer the Sign of Peace to someone. You shouldn’t just kneel down, bow your head, and ignore what Father,speaking with the Authority of the Church and Jesus Christ, has asked you to do. That’s disobedience.
We need to be part of the Real-Life Church, not the Church of Our Dreams.
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Brendan
Guest
Aquinas defined the Virtue of Obedience as conforming one’s Will to the One who has the authority.
So for obedience to be involved at all, the priest would have to have been given that authority to command what is being asked.
So the question then becomes, has the priest been given such authority to command in this matter?
If not, and the priest can merely ‘ask’, then obedience, by definition, is not involved.
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pnewton
Guest
If you think it so narrow and scope. It would appear most do not agree. Thanks be to God the Church has brought us back to balance in the current liturgy, lest we be nothing more than what St. Paul call a sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
Perhaps the best way to view this is as a false dichotomy. Our love of each other and sense of the Body of Christ in no way need diminish our focus on Christ. One with the other is either feel-good unitarianism or Pharisee-ism, depending on which part is left out.
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ProVobis
Guest
When the priest says “Let us offer each other some sign of peace” (or whatever the words are), I suppose one could argue there’s a certain level of command there, in which case, proper church etiquette should take over. (A nod or handshake or distant “V” should suffice.)
But I have yet to hear a priest say “Let’s hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer.” In fact this would be inserting something in the texts which isn’t there. So no command, no disobedience.
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