Do you want the EF as normative for the entire Latin Church?

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andrewstx said:
Come to think of it in the Mass had been entirely in silent Latin I likely would not have converted from Anglican.
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As a fellow convert, I used to think the same way. But I wonder now whether my former thinking limited God. After all, we are not the ones who convert; God converts. If God was the one who called us to convert (and He did) via a non-Latin mass, then He would have called us to convert via a Latin Mass too. For us to say we would not have converted means we would have said no to God. Do you really think that, in the end, you would have said no to God simply because the mass was in Latin?
 
Lucky7 said:
For us to say we would not have converted means we would have said no to God. Do you really think that, in the end, you would have said no to God simply because the mass was in Latin?
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Excellent point.

God calls us individually, and in that call the form of Mass is irrelevant. When the call comes it is loud and clear (it was with me) and it is pretty obvious that there is only one reasonable answer you can give to that call.
 
jwinch2 said:
No, it is not heretical. There is no dogma of the Faith defining the proper way to receive communion. In the Latin Church, the normative manner for reception of Holy Communion is kneeling and on the tongue.
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But to maintain that it is sinful to receive Communion on the tongue is indeed a heretical position. The Church does have dogma on what constitutes a sin and part of the accepted liturgy of the Mass cannot be considered as a sin.
 
Brendan_64 said:
Excellent point.

God calls us individually, and in that call the form of Mass is irrelevant. When the call comes it is loud and clear (it was with me) and it is pretty obvious that there is only one reasonable answer you can give to that call.
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here’s a different perspective. I’d been away from the Church for a long time and in a moment of personal crisis I attended Mass on a spur of the moment decision. I’m positive that had I walked into a latin Mass, I’d have walked out again without hesitation. instead, I kept coming back.
 
That’s interesting. I would say then that perhaps God chose to direct you into that church for that Mass at that time, knowing what effect it would have on you. I’d say that you being directed by God into a Latin Mass at that time wouldn’t have been an option, as He would have known that that wouldn’t have been conducive to your ‘coming home’. Whereas I had an ‘experience’ driving home from work in my car.

He works in different ways with all of us, that’s for sure.

God Bless
 
Fairwinds said:
here’s a different perspective. I’d been away from the Church for a long time and in a moment of personal crisis I attended Mass on a spur of the moment decision. I’m positive that had I walked into a latin Mass, I’d have walked out again without hesitation. instead, I kept coming back.
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You may have initially. But I believe He would have kept calling you…and if He kept calling you to a Latin mass, you would have eventually responded.
 
Lucky7 said:
You may have initially. But I believe He would have kept calling you…and if He kept calling you to a Latin mass, you would have eventually responded.
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Good response. After all, He called a lot to the Latin Mass for over 1700 years.
 
Brendan_64 said:
That’s interesting. I would say then that perhaps God chose to direct you into that church for that Mass at that time, knowing what effect it would have on you. I’d say that you being directed by God into a Latin Mass at that time wouldn’t have been an option, as He would have known that that wouldn’t have been conducive to your ‘coming home’. Whereas I had an ‘experience’ driving home from work in my car.

He works in different ways with all of us, that’s for sure.

God Bless
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no doubt about that.
 
Fairwinds said:
what was that, if you don’t mind sharing here.
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At the risk of sounding corny. The sky went bright and ‘clear’ as I drove across a busy west London crossroads. A voice asked me where was I running to and what was I running from. It was as if everything around me stopped, I cried and asked for forgiveness, and then, after what seemed like a fair bit of time, I was through to the other side of the crossroads. No car crash, no cars beeping horns at me, it was as if to everyone else around me nothing had happened, even though it seemed to me like it took many minutes to drive over that crossroads. That was it, off to Confession the following day. I think I made the priest’s day when I walked into the Confessional box and opened up to him. And the Gospel reading at Mass the next day was “The Prodigal Son” (which the priest had aptly given me to read as a penance the day before). Then on Easter Sunday shortly afterwards the same priest absolutely soaked me with a well aimed shot of Holy water (grinning as he got me full in the face with Holy water) as he sprinkled it on the congregation.

I’ve told this story on here before, but I’ll tell it again as many times as anyone wants to listen.
 
Brendan_64 said:
At the risk of sounding corny. The sky went bright and ‘clear’ as I drove across a busy west London crossroads. A voice asked me where was I running to and what was I running from. It was as if everything around me stopped, I cried and asked for forgiveness, and then, after what seemed like a fair bit of time, I was through to the other side of the crossroads. No car crash, no cars beeping horns at me, it was as if to everyone else around me nothing had happened, even though it seemed to me like it took many minutes to drive over that crossroads. That was it, off to Confession the following day. I think I made the priest’s day when I walked into the Confessional box and opened up to him. And the Gospel reading at Mass the next day was “The Prodigal Son” (which the priest had aptly given me to read as a penance the day before). Then on Easter Sunday shortly afterwards the same priest absolutely soaked me with a well aimed shot of Holy water (grinning as he got me full in the face with Holy water) as he sprinkled it on the congregation.

I’ve told this story on here before, but I’ll tell it again as many times as anyone wants to listen.
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That’s great Brendan…thanks for sharing that!
 
Brendan_64 said:
At the risk of sounding corny. The sky went bright and ‘clear’ as I drove across a busy west London crossroads. A voice asked me where was I running to and what was I running from. It was as if everything around me stopped, I cried and asked for forgiveness, and then, after what seemed like a fair bit of time, I was through to the other side of the crossroads. No car crash, no cars beeping horns at me, it was as if to everyone else around me nothing had happened, even though it seemed to me like it took many minutes to drive over that crossroads. That was it, off to Confession the following day. I think I made the priest’s day when I walked into the Confessional box and opened up to him. And the Gospel reading at Mass the next day was “The Prodigal Son” (which the priest had aptly given me to read as a penance the day before). Then on Easter Sunday shortly afterwards the same priest absolutely soaked me with a well aimed shot of Holy water (grinning as he got me full in the face with Holy water) as he sprinkled it on the congregation.

I’ve told this story on here before, but I’ll tell it again as many times as anyone wants to listen.
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yes, very moving. thanks for sharing and repeat it often.
 
I said but allow both to co-exist. I don’t think the problem with the OF can be fixed simply by going back to the EF. I think there are some deeper issues at stake that simply chaning the rubrics wouldn’t fix. The true OF is very very beautiful and is a great mass. We need to reform the reform not go back to old things.

but the EF is also very beautiful and I have no objections to priests who want to celebrate this mass, if they discern that his Parishioners want and that it is the will of God. Also trust his bishop if he says no EF no EF.
 
Basilios said:
I’d like to be more precise but I fear that I cannot be on this particular forum. If you’d join another one I’d be glad to talk a bit more openly!
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Are you saying that you hold positions contrary to the Church’s? Why else should you fear to speak your mind on an orthodox forum?
When the accidents are no longer identifiable the substance is no longer there.
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What makes the substance identifiable?
I am trusting the Church. For centuries she taught that the laity should not receive Holy Communion in the hand because it was sacrilege.
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Show us where.
 
Allowing both forms to co-exist seems to be the best option at this point. I’m thankful for the existence of Summorum Pontificum (and I regularly attend my diocese’s EF Mass), but I can see how some people are enriched more by the outwardly engaging style of the OF.

This being said, I’ve witnessed hostility towards both forms of the Holy Mass in person, which is most unfortunate. Both forms are beautiful when celebrated correctly.
 
Basilios said:
I am trusting the Church. For centuries she taught that the laity should not receive Holy Communion in the hand because it was sacrilege.
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Well, close, but backwards. It was not forbidden because it was a sacrilege; it was a sacrilege because it was forbidden.

To say that it was forbidden because it was a sacrilege would mean, first, that some of the saints of the Church promoted sacrilege; and it would also mean that the Church, by giving permission, was promoting a sacrilege.

As a matter of fact, Communion in the hand was a practice in the Church (along with Communion on the tongue) for somewhere up to 1000 AD or later (sorry, I don’t have my history on the matter at hand), and then was ruled out; then in the 1500’s permission was given to the Franciscans to receive in the hand (and on up to today). So for better than half the life of the Church, CITH has been permitted.
 
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