Doctrinal Error

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Bear_Claw said:
they are facts because you have a birth certificate that is given to you by a third party, non-biased institution, you are registered at the hospital and you can get the sworn statements and eye witness accounts from your mother, doctors and nurses.

You have none of these things when proving Church teachings.
The institution is biased, because it *is *the church. There are no eye witness accounts because even the gospels were written long after the eye witnesses were dead, so you have hearsay as a document, backed up by an institution that has its own interests at heart…

Asking someone to believe that it’s 100% true is asking someone to have faith.

if you have faith if you have faith You are describing something here that requires faith. it’s a subjective statement.
Specifically this statement is not even 100% provable by scripture and required a decree from the Pope to be added into doctrine.

No, you can do research and find the facts for yourself, validated by third party, non-biased institutions and eye witnesses and signed copies, etc.
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Bearclaw,

You are asking MANY good questions. Seek and you will find. However, I just want to clarify one thing about the Catholic Church. You stated, “There are no eye witness accounts because even the gospels were written long after the eye witnesses were dead, so you have hearsay as a document, backed up by an institution that has its own interests at heart…”

The institutions “own interests” are for every human being to love God and live with Him forever in Heaven. All the doctrines of what the Church teaches and believes is based on the love of all mankind.

Can you find a teaching that does not have this goal in mind?
 
Ok, it’s easy for me to see where this is, and has been going. Reject whatever Catholics produce, because after all nothing from them can be trusted. The whole time, refuse to say what Church you’re affliated with and what proof you have that it is the one true Church. By what authority do you speak?
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No, it’s not like that. It’s not Catholics per se, as my profile says, I’m seeking the truth. And in Christianity, in order to obtain the truth that they claim to have, you have to at some stage take a leap of faith.

I have searched for provable truth, to prove to myself that Faith is based in logic and reason and truth, but there is no such thing. Faith requires you to, when research brings you to the end of proof, to take the next step, trusting men.

I have read a lot of threads here and researched various volumes and writings by Church fathers as well as scripture researchers, and with all of the proof being offered, there is either a measure of faith or a measure of assumptions involved.

No one asked me what church I’m affiliated to, so I didn’t refuse. And my quest is to find by what proof you have that it is the one true Church.
I do not speak with my own authority, I rely on science, archeology, tangible proof and logic to confirm that if I choose to believe Christianity, that it’s not just blind faith, trusting what other people say.
 
Bear_Claw said:
No, it’s not like that. It’s not Catholics per se, as my profile says, I’m seeking the truth. And in Christianity, in order to obtain the truth that they claim to have, you have to at some stage take a leap of faith.

I have searched for provable truth, to prove to myself that Faith is based in logic and reason and truth, but there is no such thing. Faith requires you to, when research brings you to the end of proof, to take the next step, trusting men.

I have read a lot of threads here and researched various volumes and writings by Church fathers as well as scripture researchers, and with all of the proof being offered, there is either a measure of faith or a measure of assumptions involved.

No one asked me what church I’m affiliated to, so I didn’t refuse. And my quest is to find by what proof you have that it is the one true Church.
I do not speak with my own authority, I rely on science, archeology, tangible proof and logic to confirm that if I choose to believe Christianity, that it’s not just blind faith, trusting what other people say.
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What Church are you currently affliated with?
 
Bear_Claw said:
Who then, even based on the Bible received the teachings as second hand, passed on to him.

As a side question, do we posess the original copy of this work? I do not know, but if not, then theer are also copying errors that can creep in…
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2,000 years is a really long time. The Iron Age didn’t end in Britain until 500 AD. My Scottish ancestors were still painting themselves blue, and living in caves, at the time of Christ. By the time the Emperor Hadrian thought of building his wall, demarcating the border of Scotland, the Apostles, together with the first generation of the Early Fathers, had lived, died, and gone to Heaven.

Consider the state of that wall (which was supposed to last “forever”) today, and then ask yourself whether any written document from that time is likely to have survived. 🤷

Consider the number of world empires that have risen, and fallen, since that time. (Yet, the Catholic Church persists … )

So, yes, our Bible and other documents come to us in copies, and we don’t have the originals. The Church, though, has taken very great care to ensure that our copies of the Bible, along with other important documents, are as accurate as possible.
 
juicekman said:
The institutions “own interests” are for every human being to love God and live with Him forever in Heaven. All the doctrines of what the Church teaches and believes is based on the love of all mankind.

Can you find a teaching that does not have this goal in mind?
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I appreciate that juicekman, and yeah, there are many teachings like that. But these ones ask me to take a leap of faith. They ask me to trust men to tell me that this is true. I need to know that it is true, otherwise I need to discount it.
 
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