Does 1 Timothy 3:15 prove Sola Scriptura?

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The context of 1 Tim 3 is discipline, not doctrine – qualifications for bishops and deacons. Even so, the CARM article asserts that Paul is affirming Sola Scriptura here. I think they’ve got it all wrong.

You see, Paul’s intent was to ensure that the church knew “how to behave”. What was preferred method of passing along this knowledge? A personal visit – that is, he intended to teach them, in person, drawing upon his apostolic authority. Why did he write them, then? As a back up – although he intended to visit them soon, he realized that it might not happen; so, as his “plan B”, he decided to write down his teachings.

CARM makes a weak case here, since Paul’s explicit intent was an appeal to the authority of apostolic teaching, not scriptural primacy… 😉
 
How could it? The scriptures were written years after Jesus’ death. He told us to commemorate His death by celebrating the Sacrifice of the Mass, not by writing scriptures.
 
Thanks for the replies so far! I would love to read what other people think.🙂
 
On the contrary, it disproves sola scriptura.

if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

St Paul clearly identifies, not scripture, but “the church” as the “foundation of the truth.”

CARM’s tract gets the whole thing backwards because they cannot see “scripture” and “the teaching of the Church” as anything but opposed. In reality, “scripture” is a part of the teaching of the Church (including the Catholic bishop, St Paul). When the Church teaches, including when Paul wrote, it is authoritative.

You’ll note that Paul taught how to behave on his authority as an apostle, not on the authority of “Scripture.”
 
I think if you go to 2tim 3:15 it might shed a little more light on the subject of sola scriptura. In fact it might shed too much light upon it, being as the New Testament was not complete at the time, so when Paul references “and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.” There was only one Holy Scripture at the time and that was the old testament. So I guess that means all Christians really need is the Old Testament if sola scriptura is true, right?
 
Romans1 said:
I was reading this tract and I was wondering if anyone has a response to it: carm.org/does-1-timothy-3-15-refute-sola-scriptura
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When we break Scripture down into verses, it becomes easy to lose the proper context. Scripture is meant to be read as a united whole - not as fragmented verses. In fact, before the 16th century, the New Testament wasn’t even broken up into verses. Verses are an added tool to be used as an aid in Biblical study, not to abuse the interpretation of Scripture…the Holy Spirit didn’t assign chapter and verse. Therefore, when anyone tries to tell you that one single verse can prove or disprove a certain teaching, be wary. The truth of the Catholic Faith isn’t proved through this verse or that verse, but through the harmony and unity of the wholeness of Divine Revelation.
 
Romans1 said:
I was reading this tract and I was wondering if anyone has a response to it: carm.org/does-1-timothy-3-15-refute-sola-scriptura
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Does it say St Paul say anything about Scripture being the only/final source for information and faith?

Does he say that Scripture is the measure by which Church councils and Tradition should be measured?

Does he say that all doctrinal issues should be measured against Scripture?

No he doesn’t, and therefore Sola Scriptura is not proved by this verse or any other in the Bible. I have spent years trying to defend this doctrine in one protestant church after another only to find myself again and again up against the ultimate question of authority. The basic claim that underlies SS is that there is no need for Tradition or Councils because we have the Bible and since we can take a myopic reading of one verse (which is about the trustworthiness of the OT btw) and make it mean the whole Bible then we can interpret Scripture any way we want without having to worry about authority. Or more specifically, we can make ourselves our own authority.

It’s a shell game.

St Paul is reminding St Timothy that the Law and the Prophets are fit to prepare the saints for the times to come when there will be trials and tribulations because the Roman government was hostile to the Church. As such they need only to look into the OT to find that there was not only the record of God having preserved His elect people, but also the promises made to them now fulfilled in Christ upon whom they had placed their faith.

This verse is a great comfort to the saints as we prepare to live each day in a world filled with sin that hates the Church and our God, but it has nothing whatever to do with any doctrine of Sola Scriptura. Primarily because Luther made that doctrine up whole cloth out of his head 1500 years after St Paul wrote the epistle.

God Bless
 
bogeydogg said:
Does it say St Paul say anything about Scripture being the only/final source for information and faith?

Does he say that Scripture is the measure by which Church councils and Tradition should be measured?

Does he say that all doctrinal issues should be measured against Scripture?

No he doesn’t, and therefore Sola Scriptura is not proved by this verse or any other in the Bible. I have spent years trying to defend this doctrine in one protestant church after another only to find myself again and again up against the ultimate question of authority. The basic claim that underlies SS is that there is no need for Tradition or Councils because we have the Bible and since we can take a myopic reading of one verse (which is about the trustworthiness of the OT btw) and make it mean the whole Bible then we can interpret Scripture any way we want without having to worry about authority. Or more specifically, we can make ourselves our own authority.

It’s a shell game.

St Paul is reminding St Timothy that the Law and the Prophets are fit to prepare the saints for the times to come when there will be trials and tribulations because the Roman government was hostile to the Church. As such they need only to look into the OT to find that there was not only the record of God having preserved His elect people, but also the promises made to them now fulfilled in Christ upon whom they had placed their faith.

This verse is a great comfort to the saints as we prepare to live each day in a world filled with sin that hates the Church and our God, but it has nothing whatever to do with any doctrine of Sola Scriptura. Primarily because Luther made that doctrine up whole cloth out of his head 1500 years after St Paul wrote the epistle.

God Bless
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A very cogent argument in this vein is made by Mark Shea in his book By What Authority? In it, he notes that the Bereans (Acts 17:11), despite their searching the scriptures, had not a single clue that Jesus of Nazareth was the Savior of the world. It is clear that, on pilgrimage to Jerusalem, the Bereans might have passed Jesus in the streets without knowing Who He was. It was not until Paul arrived with his oral Apostolic teaching that the Bereans sought out confirmation in the OT. Once they saw that what Paul taught was confirmed by the prophets, the Bereans believed.
 
Romans1 said:
I was reading this tract and I was wondering if anyone has a response to it: carm.org/does-1-timothy-3-15-refute-sola-scriptura
Click to expand...
from 1John 4… Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world……………6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

As the passage above states…to know the truth…John says listen to us…meaning the Apostles…and those they passed their authority on…to know the truth…not read the Scripture.
 
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Scripture is meant to correct our mistakes. We prefer to interpret scripture rather than obey it.
 
Mike_SoCal said:
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Scripture is meant to correct our mistakes. We prefer to interpret scripture rather than obey it.
Click to expand...
We know that scripture is inspired. We know that the Holy Spirit is the primary author.

Points to ponder: Jesus did not found His Church on ANY scriptures. We know the the bible is an incomplete record of the Word of God. We know that man lives on EVERY WORD that flows from the mouth of God - yet the bible tells us that every word of God is not in the bible. Problem.

Peter wrote in 2 Peter 3:16 that all of the scriptures are twisted and distorted - and this was almost 2,000 years ago! How has it gotten any better?

We know what the bible says. But, what does it mean?

How and why is Baptist interpretation correct? There are many older denominations who disagree with Baptist interpretation. Did God leave us orphans? Who decides the correct interpretation?
 
Mike_SoCal said:
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Scripture is meant to correct our mistakes. We prefer to interpret scripture rather than obey it.
Click to expand...
Really? Can you give an example of when Scripture told you that you made a mistake and corrected you?

Tell you what…how can Scripture tell you that you quoted 2tim3:16 out of context?

How will Scripture tell you to re-read this passage starting at verse 14:

14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Now…could you re-read it and interpret it again from v14?
 
Mike_SoCal said:
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Scripture is meant to correct our mistakes. We prefer to interpret scripture rather than obey it.
Click to expand...
How do you know what belongs in the Bible?
 
po18guy said:
We know that scripture is inspired. We know that the Holy Spirit is the primary author.

Points to ponder: Jesus did not found His Church on ANY scriptures. We know the the bible is an incomplete record of the Word of God. We know that man lives on EVERY WORD that flows from the mouth of God - yet the bible tells us that every word of God is not in the bible. Problem.

Peter wrote in 2 Peter 3:16 that all of the scriptures are twisted and distorted - and this was almost 2,000 years ago! How has it gotten any better?

We know what the bible says. But, what does it mean?

How and why is Baptist interpretation correct? There are many older denominations who disagree with Baptist interpretation. Did God leave us orphans? Who decides the correct interpretation?
Click to expand...
There’s only one pillar and foundation of truth
 
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