L
Linux
Guest
Why not? And why do you claim that its merely a man made social thing merely on the basis that it is only relatively recent that people pursue careers?
Does a Catholic women have a God given right to work (Have a Career)
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J
jonathan_hili
Guest
Because a “career” is an urban, primarily middle-class phenomenon, that is, it is not a natural desire, need or want. There are no “careers” in 8th century agrarian France.
L
Linux
Guest
Careers are simply a manifestation of peoples recognition of conditions which allow them to develop their work potential and therefore strengthen their ability to manifest positive conditions; we have a natural right to develop our work potential whenever possible. We have a natural right to produce wealth. This is good and therefore we have right to pursue it.
The fact that its only a relatively recent phenomena that middle class people were in a position to obtain is clearly not evidence against the idea that we have a natural right to pursue a career. Your reasoning is faulty.
J
jonathan_hili
Guest
I disagree. “Career” suggests certain corollaries, e.g. a salary or wage, promotion, and so on. But a person does not have a “right” to any of these things. What we do have is a right to labour and a right to live off the fruits of our labour, but how precisely this is achieved is not a “right” but dependent on society.
If it actually were a right, we would have a ludicrous scenario such as the following: a 20th century professor is transported back in time to 5th century Gaul. The only way he has to survive is to hunt for food, farm, hire himself our as a mercenary, or become a mendicant beggar. Could he legitimately go to the local lord and demand his right to a career? Obviously not. But he could demand some form of subsistence living, and this would be reasonable.
C
Corki
Guest
I tend to favor Jonathan’s definition of “career” which includes a connotation of progression and recognition. In that case, no one is entitled to a career.
But for those of you who like the broader definition, then “yes” women as well as men are entitled to a career, that is they are entitled to work, to **seek **compensation for work that they do on behalf of others and to seek personal fulfillment from thier work.
Neither men nor women are **entitled **to any particular career, to any particular compensation or to be successful in thier quest for personal fulfillment.
But for those of you who like the broader definition, then “yes” women as well as men are entitled to a career, that is they are entitled to work, to **seek **compensation for work that they do on behalf of others and to seek personal fulfillment from thier work.
Neither men nor women are **entitled **to any particular career, to any particular compensation or to be successful in thier quest for personal fulfillment.
J
jenwha
Guest
That’s absolutely ridiculous but backs up my suspicions about the CC being sexist. Hopefully doctrine does not agree with that or I am in the wrong church.
Because a woman has a vagina a career is “not her concern?”
I am so glad I am educated, and that I make great money. Corporate America drives me nuts but at least I know I can pay my own bills…and will always be able to.
C
Corki
Guest
That is really offensive - to Catholics and to women.
J
jenwha
Guest
I have no idea what was offensive at all about that, but if it was I apologize. The use of the v word? Maybe I should have picked a more delicate way to describe our anatomy.That is really offensive - to Catholics and to women.
J
jonathan_hili
Guest
A vocation is partly both social and natural because it is also conditioned by the society. For example, you may feel a vocation to be a doctor. Well, doctors haven’t always existed and the profession only emerged with a growing level of medical understanding, technology, etc. That’s why I’m shy to say that anyone has a “right” to work that entails a particular form of work, as “career” and “vocation” do.
Hopefully, this will make things a bit clearer. We have a natural right to food, to sustenance, but neither to any particular kind of food (such as “bread”) or category (such as “grains”). Likewise, we have natural right to shelter, but neither to any particular kind of shelter (such as “mansion”) or category (such as “house”).
Or else, viewed negatively, what if someone felt called to the vocation of the priesthood or a career as a journalist but for some reason or other couldn’t pursue these areas, would you say their natural rights have been violated or not respected? No, that seems silly. But if they were denied any form of work so that they couldn’t support themselves, we’d say there was a real issue.
B
BillP
Guest
J
jonathan_hili
Guest
The Catholic Church isn’t sexist, though some Catholics might be.
Perhaps the person meant that, because women are child bearers, they are thereby biologically and psychologically suited to be child rearers.
Certainly, women should be allowed to pursue careers.
However, I do think there are negative aspects to both husband and wife in a family pursuing careers (rather than simply working for an income). But I guess you’ve got to take the good with the bad.
J
Julianna
Guest
I worked before I was married, I worked while engaged, I worked after I got married, I worked when I had both kids (6 weeks maternity leave), and the kids are grown, and I am still working. I wouldn’t have it any other way. I will retire at 62, I’m done. I told my daughter to “work”, continue to work, go to school, learn a skill,…learn how to do something that can sustain you. Mama always said, “A woman’s independence begins with her own money.”
I never wanted to “ask” if I could buy a pair of shoes, or a dress, or a pair of jeans, or flowers for the yard, or a magazine at the check out, or if I could have girls night out, or lunch out with friends. …or ask to use the car. (I bought my own, my name is on the title).
It was “my” income that afforded us a house in a neighborhood where I didn’t have dig a moat and add some gators. No, I do not live in a McMansion… it’s an old house that needed work, it’s been 16 yrs and we are finally done.
I would work again, and I advise any young women to learn a skill, go to school, work, make your own money.
I never wanted to “ask” if I could buy a pair of shoes, or a dress, or a pair of jeans, or flowers for the yard, or a magazine at the check out, or if I could have girls night out, or lunch out with friends. …or ask to use the car. (I bought my own, my name is on the title).
It was “my” income that afforded us a house in a neighborhood where I didn’t have dig a moat and add some gators. No, I do not live in a McMansion… it’s an old house that needed work, it’s been 16 yrs and we are finally done.
I would work again, and I advise any young women to learn a skill, go to school, work, make your own money.
J
Jimmygill88
Guest
I don’t know if its a ‘right’ if we refer to Genesis I seem to remember that working to live was God’s punishment for disobedience. So rather than the right maybe the duty
K
kozlosap
Guest
:thumbsup:The best advise my Mama gave me too!
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Julianna
Guest
Hasn’t steered me wrong yet.
T
tafan
Guest
Wrong. Man worked before the fall. Work became difficult or tiring due to sin. The command " be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth" came before the fall.
T
TimeEntrance
Guest
jonathan’s concept or short definitionn of “career” sounds reasonable to me. Women have always labored after all. Unfortunately, a lot of children still labor around the world without the benefit of much formal education if at all.
Children and women used to labor in the 19th Century factories of the United States, right next to men, in deplorable conditions. They were free in the sense that their persons were not owned, nonetheless, their wages were so small they could hardly hope to escape for a better future. In this sense they were wage slaves.
I’m not really in the business of telling people how to live their lives. So, I don’t hold any grudge against a woman or man that marries into wealth and is given a credit card or an allowance of $10,000 a week from their spouse. I’m personal childhood friends with a woman that married into wealth and her husband inherited his business from his father. She’s black and he’s white. I’ve seen worse off black women at age 40 working dead end jobs.
It seems sensible to me that a young person of any sex weighs what is best for them with respects to their goals (if they have any) or what they would like to have. For one woman that might be playing the violin, for another getting a degree to join the FBI, for another it might be getting an advanced degree in chemistry with the hopes of working at a big pharmaceutical company out in California. A number of women will not go to college and work blue collar jobs. Maybe they’ll work as security guards or work installing cable.
It’s probably best to inherit a lot of money and/or assets from one or both of your parents. But that’s not going to be the case for most. And younger women, and very physically attractive women, are usually the one’s to attract the courtship of a wealthy man. So, most other women if they depended on a man for income wouldn’t be getting a $10,000 weekly allowance.
Children and women used to labor in the 19th Century factories of the United States, right next to men, in deplorable conditions. They were free in the sense that their persons were not owned, nonetheless, their wages were so small they could hardly hope to escape for a better future. In this sense they were wage slaves.
I’m not really in the business of telling people how to live their lives. So, I don’t hold any grudge against a woman or man that marries into wealth and is given a credit card or an allowance of $10,000 a week from their spouse. I’m personal childhood friends with a woman that married into wealth and her husband inherited his business from his father. She’s black and he’s white. I’ve seen worse off black women at age 40 working dead end jobs.
It seems sensible to me that a young person of any sex weighs what is best for them with respects to their goals (if they have any) or what they would like to have. For one woman that might be playing the violin, for another getting a degree to join the FBI, for another it might be getting an advanced degree in chemistry with the hopes of working at a big pharmaceutical company out in California. A number of women will not go to college and work blue collar jobs. Maybe they’ll work as security guards or work installing cable.
It’s probably best to inherit a lot of money and/or assets from one or both of your parents. But that’s not going to be the case for most. And younger women, and very physically attractive women, are usually the one’s to attract the courtship of a wealthy man. So, most other women if they depended on a man for income wouldn’t be getting a $10,000 weekly allowance.
J
Jimmygill88
Guest
And you call that WORK!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha
J
jonathan_hili
Guest
Haha!
Eve probably didn’t let poor Adam get a good night’s rest, she was always hungering for more (get it?)…
:hug1:
I
InJesusItrust
Guest
Man does not live on bread alone…
We do not live to idolize work. Work is something we must do to survive. So the real question is why is anybody fighting for the right to work? Someone must have brainwashed us to think that we can only find fulfillment in careers.
We do not live to idolize work. Work is something we must do to survive. So the real question is why is anybody fighting for the right to work? Someone must have brainwashed us to think that we can only find fulfillment in careers.
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