Does a mass celebrated at 3pm on a Saturday fulfil the Sunday obligation?

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Glennon_P said:
Generally but not always. I believe there are churches in Kansas City and Las Vegas that have Masses at 2:30 on Saturday that fulfill the Sunday obligation. There may be others.
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2.30 Saturday. I can’t see any way that would fulfill the Sunday obligation. The earliest such Mass would be Saturday 4 pm.
I don’t see how 2.30pm can in any way be considered evening.

Earliest being 4 pm is supported by this:

www.catholic.com

How Early Can Saturday Vigil Mass Be?

The Code of Canon Law (can. 1248) permits Catholics to fulfill their Sunday and other Mass obligations by participating in Mass “in the evening of the pre...
www.catholic.com www.catholic.com
 
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thistle said:
Generally but not always. I believe there are churches in Kansas City and Las Vegas that have Masses at 2:30 on Saturday that fulfill the Sunday obligation. There may be others.
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I checked…and both of these cathedrals have 2:30 p.m. Masses on Saturday that fulfill the Sunday Obligation:

Mass Schedule - Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception

MASS SCHEDULEMass IntentionsGet InvolvedMinistry Schedule Jubilee Year Rite of Opening - January 28 at 2:30 Solemnity of Mary - January 1 at 12:15 and 6:00 SATURDAY2:30 pmSUNDAY 9 am | 11 am | 8 pm 11:00 am - Livestream: YouTube Live MONDAY - FRIDAY12:15 pm Livestream: YouTube Live Daily...
kcgolddome.org kcgolddome.org

http://www.gaclv.org/

I’m assuming the Bishops of those dioceses have approved these times. Not sure how that squares with the 4:00 p.m. limit.
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tafan2 said:
few people consider 3:00pm evening.
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I stood up for a wedding at 3pm but the ceremony started late enough that the priest told us the Mass would count for Sunday.

You know how weddings can be.
 
Glennon_P said:
Generally but not always. I believe there are churches in Kansas City and Las Vegas that have Masses at 2:30 on Saturday that fulfill the Sunday obligation.
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The 2:30 at the Cathedral in Las Vegas used to be labeled as meeting the Sunday obligation “for tourists only.” At the time, Mass was every hour on the hour in the Cathedral, and on the half hour in the hall.

Note that the Cathedral is on the strip. It was built with casino money, even–the owners offered to build a church there if the then Diocese of Reno would provide an early Mass (4:30 A.M., iirc) on Sunday for workers coming off shift.

Since then, it has become first a co-cathedral, and now a cathedral in its own right. Additionally, a shrine has been built at the other end of the strip.

But I just looked, and the 2:30 Sunday Mass on Saturday is still there, but no longer with the tourists label . . . .

(back in the day, the priest also mentioned not to be hesitant about throwing casino chips in–he made a run every Monday, and claimed to be the only person who left the casino with more money than when he entered 🤣😱 He also mentioned that it was about 10% of the collection!)

Given that it’s the cathedral itself in Las Vegas . . .
Glennon_P said:
I’m assuming the Bishops of those dioceses have approved these times. Not sure how that squares with the 4:00 p.m. limit.
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We’re running a 2:30 Saturday afternoon Mass that weekend tourists in Sin City attend in droves. I think someone would have to have his head stuck in an anatomically improbable location to seriously complain about this . . .

hawk
 
Glennon_P said:
Generally but not always. I believe there are churches in Kansas City and Las Vegas that have Masses at 2:30 on Saturday that fulfill the Sunday obligation. There may be others.
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I recall seeing somewhere (cathedral website, probably) that Vegas had permission from the Holy See for having a Mass of obligation that early in the day. I’d say that it is an exception that helps to prove the rule (i.e., 4 pm is the generally accepted limit).

Dan
 
dochawk said:
(back in the day, the priest also mentioned not to be hesitant about throwing casino chips in–he made a run every Monday, and claimed to be the only person who left the casino with more money than when he entered 🤣😱 He also mentioned that it was about 10% of the collection!)
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Was he a Benedictine? I’d always been told this was the job of the Chip Monk 🐿️
😂😂😂
 
Nah, a Franciscan–the Fish Friar 😱 🐟 🤣

(actually, he was probably a Viatorian . . . they staffed that parish, iirc)
 
ProVobis said:
Canon Law specifies “vespera” (cognate of Vespers) and intentionally omits the time. Just sayin.
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However, Vespers is always between 4pm to 6pm.

Second, Canon Law says “evening”. It is not evening before 4pm.
 
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Canon Law also doesn’t consider 3:00pm as fulfilling the obligation.
 
ProVobis said:
That’s your interpretation of the Latin.
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Some time back one of the priests in these forums confirmed that Vespers did not start before 4pm. There is also a Catholic Answers Q&A which I posted earlier which directs you to a Church document which states the same.
 
For what it’s worth, I looked up the definition of “evening” and there is no standard definition. So it all comes down to what the priest says.
 
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ProVobis said:
For what it’s worth, I looked up the definition of “evening” and there is no standard definition. So it all comes down to what the priest says.
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There appears to be a standard for Vespers in that from anything I have read it is never before 4pm so if Vespers is the mark then Sunday obligation would only be fulfilled by a Saturday evening Mass 4pm or later.
 
Ever since returning to Standard Time last weekend, we seem to have plenty of evening prior to 4pm around these parts. 🌇 🕓

I’m just sayin’.
 
Well people, so if the position of the sun is a reference for the definition of evening in the canon law and not a fixed hour, some far north (or far south) city in the winter is benefited or even things like summer special hours, etc. Is this fair? So, if I live in a city that the sunset is 8 pm, I have less hours to go then someone who lives in a city that the sunset is at 4 pm. Is it fair? Is this the way the Church defines things? A person close to the Artic during summer that would have midnight sun could not go to Sunday Mass at Saturday? Is it really it?
 
I wondered the same thing yesterday after i made my post, since my understanding is that while the “4pm interpretation” seems prevalent in the US, the “2pm or even ‘after noon’ interpretation” is more common among European canonists. Similarly, sunset itself may come earlier than 4pm in many bits of Europe (London, Berlin, Warsaw to name a few), hence an earlier “evening”. 🤷‍♂️

🌇
 
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