Does an atheist go to heaven?

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Bradskii said:
you actually do want to know what an atheist thinks, you can ask one. Gotta be one around here somewhere…
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Okay.

Do you WANT to go to eternal paradise if such a place exists?

Would you worship God if Jesus appeared to you and told you “everything the Catholic Church teaches is revealed by me and is true?”
 
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ChristMyLife said:
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Bradskii:
Only an idiot could possibly state in the same breath that he doesn’t believe that God exists and then say that He is a tyrant.
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So Richard Dawkins is an idiot?

I thought he was the brightest of the “brights?”
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I think that you knew that Dawkins was referring to how God is portrayed in the NT (a God in which he doesn’t believe). If you didn’t, then you do now.
 
ChristMyLife said:
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Bradskii:
you actually do want to know what an atheist thinks, you can ask one. Gotta be one around here somewhere…
Click to expand...
Okay.

Do you WANT to go to eternal paradise if such a place exists?

Would you worship God if Jesus appeared to you and told you “everything the Catholic Church teaches is revealed by me and is true?”
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I’d need some info on what eternal paradise consists of before I could answer the first part. Everyone seems to have different ideas about it. Is yours still the Dr. Who type scenario?

And yes, I would become a believer if I honestly believed that Jesus had appeared before me.

So while you think about clarifying what paradise consists of, could you answer one from me?

Should I believe in any god if I honestly believed that he or she had appeared before me?
 
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Bradskii said:
need some info on what eternal paradise consists of before I could answer the first part. Everyone seems to have different ideas about it. Is yours still the Dr. Who type scenario?
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Paradise is ineffable.

It’s all the best aspects of life here on earth, multiplied by a million.

And I take offense at your condescending dismissal of my personal idea of what an aspect of heaven may entail. The truth is I don’t know.

St. Paul and St. Thomas, who both had experiences of heaven personally, simply said “there are no words to describe what I saw.”
 
ChristMyLife said:
Paradise is ineffable.

It’s all the best aspects of life here on earth, multiplied by a million.

The truth is I don’t know.
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Some contradictions there. But to take your second line, what are the best aspects of life for one person may not be the best for another.

Aren’t you just saying paradise is just really, really good without having any personal idea at all?
 
vz71 said:
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Bradskii:
And yes, I would become a believer if I honestly believed that Jesus had appeared before me.
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What exactly does it take for you to believe in this appearance?
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I wouldn’t know. That’s why I asked about someother deity appearing before me. Maybe you can help - what would convince you that Vishnu was actually appearing in front of you?
 
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ChristMyLife said:
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Bradskii:
Should I believe in any god if I honestly believed that he or she had appeared before me?
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Sure. If Krishna appeared to you, I wouldn’t fault you for being a follower of Krishna.
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But Krishna doesn’t exist. How do I tell the difference between a God that does exist and one that doesn’t?
 
Sophie111 said:
Perhaps you are right. Though it is sad to think that the giving of the Sacraments has not served to better the lives of the baptised but only to cause a mofe severe judgement!

I prefer an alternative hypothesis as hinted above. Interiorly more people throw themselves on Gods mercy even though their outward lives are little better despite the lifetime association with the Sacraments.
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The best example I think, are the comparisons of the 2 criminals crucified with Jesus. Their difference in disposition between them was dramatic AND replicates what we see in this topic re: atheists and heaven. The recorded dialogues between the 2 criminals is sparse but hugely significant. One criminal thinks he can challenge God to free him from the cross (saved if you will) even though he really doesn’t believe in who he is talking to, nor recognize his crime, nor that he is sorry, etc etc. vs Dismas, the other thief, who under massive duress and suffering as well, recognizes his offense, and why he is there, he recognizes who Jesus is, and defends Jesus to the other criminal heard by those in ear shot, then asks Jesus for mercy. In those few words he spoke, an entire theology course could be written just on his few recorded words .
 
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But, Jesus forgave all sins, past, present and future, with his death on the cross, no? Not just believer’s sins. And, He gave us a new commandment, “Love one another.” Then He summed things up with Matthew 25:31-46. So, if an atheist is kind and generous to those around him, welcomes strangers, feeds the hungry, gives drink to the thirsty, clothes to the naked and visits those imprisoned, where is it written that Jesus will condemn the atheist? I know an atheist just like that. He’s a generous guy, with his time in particular, and he sings in his wife’s church’s choir, but he can’t bring himself to believe in God. Condemned to hell? I don’t think so.
 
“You can’t not believe in something about which you have no knowledge”

I agree; and I think your comment points out that there can be well-meaning and moral atheists, as they have been given either poor or false information as to what the term “God” means within Christianity. There seems to be an impression that atheists can only be those who have rejected God as Christianity understands the concept (or for that matter, Judaism) - one could be an atheist who had never encountered Christianity, but lives in a pagan world and has rejected pagan gods.
 
Richard Dawkins is not an idiot. By his own words, he had what could best be called an extremely poor understanding oc the concept of God.
 
Tarzan said:
The basic principle is that God has nothing to hide, that God can only win if he reveals himself and his benevolence to us.
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Jesus, indeed the entirety of the Bible, and God’s church are exactly that. God revealing himself to us.
 
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vz71 said:
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Bradskii:
And yes, I would become a believer if I honestly believed that Jesus had appeared before me.
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Still wondering what exactly it would take.
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I remember many years ago when my father was in hospital. He’d been given some medication the day before and he told us that during the evening he’d had quite an interesting discussion with a china dog which was sitting at the foot of his bed. He was adamant that it wasn’t a dream. It was as real he said as I was sitting there. But he knew that it had been an hallucination and nobody would have believed him if he’d said it actually happened.

Now he was a believer. If it had been Jesus as opposed to a china dalmation, would he have believed it was real?
 
vz71 said:
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Bradskii:
And yes, I would become a believer if I honestly believed that Jesus had appeared before me.
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Still wondering what exactly it would take.
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He can come down to Randwick with me and give me the winner of each race for that day. Local charities would be richer by a few million and I wouldn’t be an atheist any more.

Effectively, any such scenario would work. But if it was just an appearance and a chat, then there’d be no difference if it was Zeus, Jesus or a china dog. I’d be convinced I’d been halucinating. But a few million dollars into the bank account of the local cancer charity is no hallucination.

But that doesn’t work, does it. You say I need faith which I would need to want in the first instance. And I say I need proof, which denies the need for faith and is not available in any case. So the question really is unanswerable.

One either believes in the first instance (a cradle Catholic perhaps) and looks for things that bolster that belief. Or you want to believe for whatever reason and do the same thing.
 
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