Does anyone else hate reading the "Crowd" part on Palm Sunday readings?

[EasterJoy]

What if Jesus comes back to us in the middle of a Good Friday service - do you really want to be standing there yelling out “Crucify him”?

I want to be found being obedient.

John had somewhat similar reasons for wanting to refuse to bapitize Jesus, but Jesus persuaded him, and John gave in.* We will not betray the Lord by being obedient to the rubrics, either. It is even possible that the reverse is true.

*"Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me?” Jesus said to him in reply, “Allow it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed him. After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him. And a voice came from the heavens, saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
Matthew 3:13-17

 

[curlycool89]

I think I’d just call it acting. We are after all “re-enacting” the Gospel story. The act has to stick to what happened, so there has to be some who yells out “Crucify him!” because someone did (I would hope that no one would actually yell that out at Jesus if He was back ). Don’t worry, everyone else knows that you don’t mean it, you know that you don’t mean it, and God knows that you don’t mean it. Someone just has to play the bad guy

 

[Digitonomy]

I think you are free to be silent if you don’t want to participate

Is that really true? Aren’t we instructed by the GIRM and similar documents to perform our specified role during the mass, in this case the crowd lines in the passion narrative?

 

[thomas_jd]

I choose not to participate in the crowds response’s at mass. I understand the significance of the readings yet scripture tells us that it was the chief priests and officers that cried out for His crucifixion. John 19: 6. “Crucify him, crucify him.”

John 19:11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.”

I resent the association with those that plotted Our Lords death. The Jewish leaders, Judas etc. For religious and political reasons Jesus was put to death.
The crowds response’s should not come from the mass attendees in my opinion.

 

[OraLabora]

I don’t think its any sugar-coating to say I would not have said that. I wouldn’t. I realize Christ had to do that for ME, and would have done it if I were the only sinner. However, his true disciples were not in that crowd. I am a true disciple. Yes, a sinner He had to die for, but still a true disciple. And I think most of the people here on CAF are, too. So, if I was there I would not have been saying those words, demanding Our Lord die. I would have been with the true disciples.

I think you’re probably wrong. And I don’t doubt your sincerity. Let’s rewind the clock to 2000 years ago. If you were in that crowd, you were probably Jewish, not Catholic. You probably knew nothing about Jesus other than what you heard through rumor and innuendo. You have been brought up to believe in Judaism by your parents, who were taught the same by their parents, for thousands of years. Since you appear to be very devout at heart, you probably would have been a very devout Jew.

Now, this upstart Messiah guy comes around and upsets the apple cart. Everything you were taught to believe since your were at your mother’s knee, has been turned on its head. You probably didn’t get to witness any of the miracles, only heard of them at best, or you heard hearsay evidence from others in the crowd saying that he taught heresy. Do you honestly think you could affirm without a shadow of a doubt that you wouldn’t be caught up with the mob and wouldn’t be one of the ones saying “crucify him”?

You are basing yourself on how you feel and know of Jesus now. To affirm what you say, you have to transport yourself to that time and place and in the Jewish context.

Note that I don’t ever hold a grudge against the Jewish people for crucifying Jesus. It wasn’t the Jews who crucified Him; it was humanity. I firmly believe that if God had chosen, say, the Inca, as His “chosen people”, and after they failed to live up to His Promise He sent a redeemer to them, the outcome would have been more or less the same.

 

[srlucado]

Well, I’m glad we do it because it makes me grateful that God’s grace has overcome the natural hardness of my heart and granted me the grace of conversion. That WOULD be me yelling “Crucify Him! Crucify Him!” if He hadn’t had mercy on the world and on me.

That’s the way I feel about it.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Yes, I used to think exactly as you describe. Now though, I truly realize that I do indeed say those words regularly. When I get impatient at someone slowing the line ahead of me, when I avoid certain needy people, when I decide to sleep in and then have no time for morning prayer, let alone any more serious sins. We should all reflect on those words and how they apply to us.

 

[bluerose]

We’re supposed to hate it… and remember that our sins are what led to that particular point in history…

 

[Lujack]

It has nothing to do with “let’s all feel good.” It has to do with “let’s not make the same mistake twice,” and “let’s not compound error upon error.” The fact that I’m a sinner doesn’t mean that I have to cry out “Crucify him! Crucify him!” on Passion Sunday or on Good Friday. I can say, “I have the choice to not commit sin. I am not condemned by my past sins to forever be crying out Crucify him! Today, I will not be that person. I might backslide tomorrow, but for today, I will not.”

What if Jesus comes back to us in the middle of a Good Friday service - do you really want to be standing there yelling out “Crucify him”?

Its penitential. You are reading the “Crucify him! Crucify him!” because you have in the past yelled “Crucify him! Crucify him!” by committing sins. When I snapped at my roommate on Saturday: “Not this one, but Barabas” Not in the direct sense of standing there in Jerusalem, but in the metaphysical sense that I turned my back on Christ. In a year’s worth of sins, how many times have we said that? So on Good Friday, the Church’s liturgy puts it to us straight in the frankest way possible: We all have, during the year, chosen other things over God.

And I will say this: I think that Christ is very much aware of the rubrics that His Church is using for the Good Friday services. If he comes back, and its right in the middle of the Passion, and I’m right in the middle of saying “Crucify him! Crucify him!”, I’m quite confident that he will know exactly what I’m doing and why I’m doing it. It isn’t exactly like we can have some sort of misunderstanding.

 

[Lujack]

I choose not to participate in the crowds response’s at mass. I understand the significance of the readings yet scripture tells us that it was the chief priests and officers that cried out for His crucifixion. John 19: 6. “Crucify him, crucify him.”

Actually, doesn’t Scripture tell us that the chief priests and officers whipped up the crowd into yelling “Crucify him! Crucify him!”

Also, I’m personally not comfortable disputing the way the Church is interpreting this one.

John 19:11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.”

I resent the association with those that plotted Our Lords death. The Jewish leaders, Judas etc. For religious and political reasons Jesus was put to death.
The crowds response’s should not come from the mass attendees in my opinion.

Well, yes, that’s the direct and immediate reason. But the larger question is not why was Christ put to death on that particular Friday in Jerusalem, but why did He need to die on the Cross? It needed to happen because of the sin of Adam, and the sin of all of us. So no, we were not there on that particular Friday in Jerusalem, but it was all the sins that had been committed to that point, and all the sins that would ever be committed from that point forward, that made it necessary. To focus only on the religious and political reasons is to take a view that, in my mind, is far too narrow. Even if, by some miracle, Judas had had a change of heart and not betrayed Christ, and the 12 had left Jerusalem hale and hearty, they still would have needed to come back. Christ was there to die on the Cross, and the reason that he was there to do that is, I think, a very large piece of the puzzle to omit.

 

[turtle18]

Right…you are saying if you had been there you never would have done these things. Yet Peter said he would never deny our Lord but less than 12 hours later he denied him three times.

The same crowd that worshipped and adored Jesus turned around and sentenced him to death for no reason five days later. So at the very least, you should take it as a warning that although you are the faithful follower now, you and all of us at any given point can turn away from Jesus, just like that.

 

[MFTM]

Except the thing is that we have said “Not this one but Barabbas” and “Crucify him, crucify him”. We say it every time we sin, because our sins are what made it necessary. That, to me, is why it is so powerful.

I too can not say these things. Not because I have not sinned but because I have sinned so much that I am so brokenhearted with repentance that I can not speak. I have crucfied and wounded Jesus enough without saying the words.

 

[Kit15]

I don’t care for it either.

I do it anyway since it’s the approved method and all. While I don’t dare claim I would have stood by our Lord’s side 2000 years ago, I’m not exactly…desensitized to such such violent cruelty to humans at the hands of humans in general (whether it’s Christ or the criminals hanging hanging next to him).

And unfortunately I am STILL not spiritually mature enough to reap the spiritual benefit of confronting my sins and being humbled by them by saying those words. I admit it. I’m just too wound up over the fact that I’m vocalizing the desire to send an innocent man to a gruesome death to see the bigger picture. It takes such an effort just to get the mouth moving. The words are very awkward on the tongue…

Honestly…it’s for similar reasons I’ve never seen Mel Gibson’s movie. I’d be so overwhelmed by the violence itself, it would override any spiritual benefit I might have gained from it.

I get my humbling experience reading and contemplating “A Doctor At Calvary”.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I can understand anyone’s discomfort reading the crowd scenes, but as others have said, the discomfort should be felt. For example, I know that whenever I go to confession, I get the most out of it when I feel my sin, when I’m repelled by it, even horrified by it.

Jesus told us in Matthew that verbal insults were in the same category as murder. When we think about it, anytime we have wished serious harm to another, privately rejoiced in their misfortune, or lashed out seriously in anger, we have said, “Crucify Him.”

 

[choy]

we condemn Jesus to death each time we sin. its only rightful that in an reenactment that we play the part of the Jerusalem crowd

 

[Seatuck]

We are doing a “re-enactment” of sorts when we take part in the reading of the Passion on Palm Sunday, and we, the people, are always assigned the part of the accusing, hating crowd.

On another thread here, Benedictgal says of this practice: "… The crowds are speaking on our behalf because we, ourselves, are the ones who put Jesus to death because of our sins. When the crowd says “let His blood be on us and on our children”, we are assuming the guilt and blame. I think that we have, sadly, conditioned ourselves to gloss over the fact that we are just as guilty as the crowds were. When we speak their “lines”, we are actually speaking for ourselves."

What Benedictgal says here I have heard before, and perhaps represents the reason we are asked to be the crowd. But it doesn’t sit right with me.

I cannot see myself in that crowd EVER saying those things. I don’t think I am vain either. I would either be completely heart-broken and silent, in tears, or a coward and run away, but I would NOT be saying the things that crowd was saying. I think I know myself well enough to say that. I’ve never been a crowd follower. Does anyone else really think that they would have been yelling “Crucify Him!”? That they would have had no pity?

Certainly none of the apostles were in that crowd saying those things (excepting Judas who was crazy by then and not participating in that), and certainly none of His true disciples were in that crowd, either. And I am a true disciple. So like them, I would NOT have been there saying what that crowd said.

Therefore I do not like the implication that the crowd is speaking on my behalf. I have heard that before and I don’t get where it comes from. Nothing in the catechism I am sure.

I decided this year to be silent when the crowd parts are read. I want to worship at Mass, not speak words opposite of my nature and intent. And if I had a chance to be in a Mel Gibson movie saying those parts, I’d say “No, thank you.” Sure, someone has to do it, but not me. There will be other volunteers who can act it without taking it personally. And its definately not a role and words I want to speak at Mass.

Does anyone else feel this way too?

I don’t like saying it them but then I do say it every time I commit a mortal sin.Every time we willing choose to sin we are saying Crucify Him. It’s no different than saying the confiteor or the penitential rite aloud. We should be uncomfortable , we should be repelled . We should turn from sin. We should turn toward the Gospel message. If Christ had not died and the Apostles had not witnessed his resurrection we would still be that crowd.

 

[benedictgal]

It has nothing to do with “let’s all feel good.” It has to do with “let’s not make the same mistake twice,” and “let’s not compound error upon error.” The fact that I’m a sinner doesn’t mean that I have to cry out “Crucify him! Crucify him!” on Passion Sunday or on Good Friday. I can say, “I have the choice to not commit sin. I am not condemned by my past sins to forever be crying out Crucify him! Today, I will not be that person. I might backslide tomorrow, but for today, I will not.”

What if Jesus comes back to us in the middle of a Good Friday service - do you really want to be standing there yelling out “Crucify him”?

Jesus is present at the Good Friday service. He is present in the Word proclaimed.

With all due respect, your logic is flawed. Do you not understand that every time we sin, we “compound error upon error”? Do you not realize that every sin, whether committed 2000 years ago, today or 100 years from now, is what lead to the crucifixion? The words of the accounts of the Passion in the four Gospels are for all times.

When we speak these words, we own up to the fact that we play a part, a very real part in what happened on Good Friday.

 

[EasterJoy]

When we speak these words, we own up to the fact that we play a part, a very real part in what happened on Good Friday.

I could not agree more. There are no innocent bystanders.

And again: I truly believe that Our Lady, the only innocent bystander, would read it, because she attributes every bit of her fullness of grace to the favor of God. She knows that even her “Fiat” would not have been possible, save through Jesus’ willingness to die to free her from the folly she was heir to as a daughter of Adam and Eve. Even Our Lady needed the Cross. Even Our Lady owes the magnificence of her perfect soul to Christ. Truly, there but for the grace of God goes every single one of us. Without grace, we would not only yell the words. We would do the deed itself. When we sin, we do indeed do the deed ourselves. That is the misery and treachery of life outside grace.

If we are rich, it is only because in our utter poverty, God has looked kindly upon us. In repeating those words, we need to have Jesus’ compassion and mercy on those who clamour to nail him up today. IOW, I really believe that being willing to recognize ourselves as being capable of being a part of that yelling crowd is part and parcel with loving our enemies. That is, to be able to say of Christ’s enemies: that is the kind of person I am, too. God have mercy on me. God have mercy on them, too, from Osama bin Laden to all of the rest. The world has not lost the people who, crucifying Christ, believe they are doing God a favor. We are commanded to love them, and love does not hold itself aloof from the ugliness in others, does not hold the pretense that we are not just so, save for God’s grace. And we know that over all of us, the Lord says, “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do”.

The measure we measure out with will be measured out to us. We do need to be willing to see the cup we need for our measure as a bottomless cup.

 

[Eliza10]

I am really glad that, in our Diocese, this is no longer done. Instead, the Narrator simply says, “And then the crowd called out, ‘Crucify him, crucify him!’”

We used to do it the other way, and I remember one year, the entire congregation simply remained silent at that moment in the reading - because, yeah - they shouldn’t have done it then, and it would be wrong to do it now. We tell people, stand up for your convictions, don’t do what you know to be wrong, no matter who tells you to do it, and then they turn around and ask us to do this? I don’t think so. I’m glad we don’t do it that way, any more.

Wow! I am so glad to find someone who gets it! Not only you, but your whole parish, and apparently your Diocese!

Our Diocese is well-known for its Modernist leanings in all things theology. Our Diosean newspaper prominently runs the column of the famous liberal, modernist now-retired Notre Dame Professor Father Richard O’Brien, promoted Obama, and now his Health Care, and the predominent theme of all the articles is social justice and environmentalism. Our bishop has overseen rennovating our churches and most of the time you cannot find the Tabernacle.

In our diocese we have always done the readings with the people being the crowd. So this, and other things our Diocese and bishop stand behind (like standing after the consecreation rather than kneeling) are all things that don’t sit right with me.

I am sure the theology behind our doing it is the same as what what Benedictgal and others here are sharing. That we are like the crowds who want him crucified. And certainly most of the parishoners here have no problem reading the parts - they do so quite robustly. Like those who comment here, they must feel cathartic, humbled, grateful. However that is not how I feel.

I appreciate the sincerity of those here who think its a valid theological leap to identify with the Pharisees and political leaders and the ignorant crowd who were roused by them who wanted him crucified. And I see that the leap you are making is that* whenever* you sin its like* you* are saying “crucify him”.* I disagree*, but I do see that for you its a way of acknowledging you are a sinner.

But to me its an illogical leap. The theological connection seems wrong. What I have not learned on this thread, since apparently no one responding knows, is where did this theology come from??? Thats what I want to know. It came from somewhere! Clearly, its been taught, because so many people here feel the same thing. I have not been taught it, only shown it, and it makes no sense to me. The theological identification feels just plain wrong to me.

But the people in JMCrae’s parish and Diocese seem to feel the way I do. I LOVE that the whole congregation remained silent! Love it. Wish I had been there. And your Diocese must be a lot different from mine. We are still mired in the 60s and 70s.

 

[benedictgal]

Wow! I am so glad to find someone who gets it! Not only you, but your whole parish, and apparently your Diocese!

Our Diocese is well-known for its Modernist leanings in all things theology. Our Diosean newspaper prominently runs the column of the famous liberal, modernist now-retired Notre Dame Professor Father Richard O’Brien, promoted Obama, and now his Health Care, and the predominent theme of all the articles is social justice and environmentalism. Our bishop has overseen rennovating our churches and most of the time you cannot find the Tabernacle.

In our diocese we have always done the readings with the people being the crowd. So this, and other things our Diocese and bishop stand behind (like standing after the consecreation rather than kneeling) are all things that don’t sit right with me.

I am sure the theology behind our doing it is the same as what what Benedictgal and others here are sharing. That we are like the crowds who want him crucified. And certainly most of the parishoners here have no problem reading the parts - they do so quite robustly. Like those who comment here, they must feel cathartic, humbled, grateful. However that is not how I feel.

I appreciate the sincerity of those here who think its a valid theological leap to identify with the Pharisees and political leaders and the ignorant crowd who were roused by them who wanted him crucified. And I see that the leap you are making is that* whenever* you sin its like* you* are saying “crucify him”.* I disagree*, but I do see that for you its a way of acknowledging you are a sinner.

But to me its an illogical leap. The theological connection seems wrong. What I have not learned on this thread, since apparently no one responding knows, is where did this theology come from??? Thats what I want to know. It came from somewhere! Clearly, its been taught, because so many people here feel the same thing. I have not been taught it, only shown it, and it makes no sense to me. The theological identification feels just plain wrong to me.

But the people in JMCrae’s parish and Diocese seem to feel the way I do. I LOVE that the whole congregation remained silent! Love it. Wish I had been there. And your Diocese must be a lot different from mine. We are still mired in the 60s and 70s.

However, it is not a huge leap to jump to the conclusion that I have reached. Part of the problem is bad catechesis and the severe watering down of the effects of sin in our lives. Do you not understand that your sins and my sins contributed heavily to what happened on Good Friday? Is it that difficult a connection to make?

When sin no longer jars us, that is a huge problem. What you still do not understand is that we are those people in the crowds. Our sins are what put Jesus on the cross. Every sin committed on this earth, whether it was the sin of Adam and Eve to the evil that I will probably be committing tomorrow, twenty years from now and so on and so forth, condemned Jesus to death.

Just because a parish, let alone a diocese, used the approved form where the faithful read the parts of the crowd, that does not mean that it is mired in the 60s and 70s. You paint with too broad a stroke here. If that is the case, then, you would also accuse the Holy Father of that because the choir chanted the parts of the faithful during the chanting of the Passion at the Palm Sunday Papal Mass.

Furthermore, if we were to subscribe to your logic, we should not have even participated in the Palm Sunday procession. But, remember that the same people who cheered Jesus on, jeered at him on Good Friday. So, if you are going to participate in one act, you should participate in the other.