Does anyone else hate reading the "Crowd" part on Palm Sunday readings?

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Because baptism is not only about the washing away of sins; it is also about the opening up of the New Covenant. By having Himself baptized, He baptized the waters of repentance and made them a means of entry into His Covenant of grace.

He was not in any way pretending that he was having His sins washed away. There was no “play-acting” involved with what He was doing.
I mean He underwent the same ritual that sinners deserved, and did not refuse to be mistaken for a sinner. So obviously two people can go through the exact same motions, yet the actions do not carry the same meaning before God. That is what counts: the meaning the action carries before God.

When we take the part of the crowd, the meaning isn’t what theirs was. When they did it, they meant to convict the Lord. When we do it, we mean to convict ourselves, and in the strongest terms. We do not condemn him all over again, but we put no distance between ourselves and the death Jesus had to endure for our sakes. That is only right, for our past choices puts us in the same category as that crowd. We have no justification for distancing ourselves from them.
 
We don’t proclaim the words in the sense of ratifying them. We aren’t agreeing. We are proclaiming them in the sense of uncovering them, in the sense of “lest we forget”.
Not the way Benedictgal explains it. Actually, according to her explanation, we are proclaiming these words with meaning and intention, and actually we are calling for Christ to be re-crucified, yet again, just as if we had never been redeemed - as if we can never stop sinning.
I tell you, if you asked Our Lady what the crowd said, she would say, “Crucify Him.”
Yes - she would preface it with “they said …” She wouldn’t portray herself as them.
 
Not the way Benedictgal explains it. Actually, according to her explanation, we are proclaiming these words with meaning and intention, and actually we are calling for Christ to be re-crucified, yet again, just as if we had never been redeemed - as if we can never stop sinning.
When we read our part in the Passion, nobody, but nobody, takes it that way. Neither you nor I nor anyone attending a Mass where an account of the Passion is proclaimed thinks that the participating assembly is calling for a new crucifixion. If Benedictgal chooses to state it as being analogous to the Mass, then you have to take the entire analogy. If you take her to mean that we would be “re-crucifying” Christ by reading those lines, then you would have to believe that we “re-crucify” Christ when we mystically enter into that moment by the Sacrifice of the Mass! Of course not!

But if we re-enter the eternal moment of the Crucifixion and someone says “which is your part?”, we ought not be too quick to make ourselves out to be Our Lady or St. John. We ought to admit where we are truly standing in this scene, and who we ought to rightfully be counted with: right there with the accusers and the disowners.

My point is that it is wrong to count ourselves as being clothed in the same fabric as Our Lady, knowing full well that she is not afraid to be taken as being associated with the fabric that is in the state ours has been in. Our Lady was never soiled whatsoever, but stayed pure precisely because her love of the filthy ones so greatly exceeds her hatred of the filth. It is by the grace of God alone that we are clean. If we take on airs that our names don’t belong in the same sentence with sin, then we risk by that vanity going back into the filth again.

If we have done better than the crowd did on that day, then great: let us throw our crowns at Christ’s feet at the Easter Vigil, for it is the Resurrection that made that possible. On Good Friday, though, let us admit what part we really did play in that day’s events.
Yes - she would preface it with “they said …” She wouldn’t portray herself as them.
I think Our Lady would not refrain from answering the question without that preface, which is added purely lest someone get the wrong idea.

That seems to be the entire implication here…that is, either “oh, I would never say that!” or “it sounds like this is what I want to have happen!” She would not have to say, “they said.” Distancing herself from those she loves would be the last thing on her mind. She would know what she meant. It just would not occur to her to worry that she’d be taken for a sinner or that her meaning was sinful.

We, in contrast, have no standing to be taken as anything but sinners…not because we can never stop sinning, but because our redemption was not our work, while our sin was.
 
We, in contrast, have no standing to be taken as anything but sinners…not because we can never stop sinning, but because our redemption was not our work, while our sin was.
Which still doesn’t mean that we have to pray for Christ to be crucified.
 
Which still doesn’t mean that we have to pray for Christ to be crucified.
It isn’t even remotely what we’re doing, and I think it amounts to an accusation against those who wrote the rubrics to imply that we are. As a rule of thumb, when voting whether it is the bishops approving the rubrics or we personally who have a wrong understanding of the meaning of a ritual, vote with the bishops.

Suffice it to say that I don’t enjoy reading the words out loud and yet think it is edifying to have to do it. It forces a very powerful confrontation with the effect of my personal sins.

If they were to take the practice out of our archdiocese, I’d think it would be too bad, that something very valuable had been lost. I’d also conclude it was done at least partly to satisfy the sensibilities of those who don’t like to think they are such bad sinners as the crowd was, after all. That is an extremely dangerous and inappropriate sentiment. I think those who oppose the format entirely or that we do it as a crowd are either those who don’t understand the practice correctly or those who incorrectly don’t think the role applies to them. I don’t know how else to interpret it.

Having said that, I can understand that there are those who are tender-hearted, who recognize that the words do fit, but just can’t bring themselves to say them. It is a very powerful experience, so I won’t object to that. As long as the message gets home, it is OK that some don’t get there the same way.

I don’t think you understand the ritual. You don’t think I do. That’s where it will sit, I think, no matter how much more we post.

I don’t believe for a minute that you or Eliza10 don’t think you’re sinners or that you weren’t responsible for Our Lord’s death, and I can’t believe that you think that by being willing to repeat those words that I or Benedictgal or anyone else here really wants to crucify Our Lord all over again. That is the important thing. Maybe that is as good a place to leave it as we’re going to get.
 
When we read our part in the Passion, nobody, but nobody, takes it that way. Neither you nor I nor anyone attending a Mass where an account of the Passion is proclaimed thinks that the participating assembly is calling for a new crucifixion. If Benedictgal chooses to state it as being analogous to the Mass, then you have to take the entire analogy. If you take her to mean that we would be “re-crucifying” Christ by reading those lines, then you would have to believe that we “re-crucify” Christ when we mystically enter into that moment by the Sacrifice of the Mass! Of course not!

But if we re-enter the eternal moment of the Crucifixion and someone says “which is your part?”, we ought not be too quick to make ourselves out to be Our Lady or St. John. We ought to admit where we are truly standing in this scene, and who we ought to rightfully be counted with: right there with the accusers and the disowners.

My point is that it is wrong to count ourselves as being clothed in the same fabric as Our Lady, knowing full well that she is not afraid to be taken as being associated with the fabric that is in the state ours has been in. Our Lady was never soiled whatsoever, but stayed pure precisely because her love of the filthy ones so greatly exceeds her hatred of the filth. It is by the grace of God alone that we are clean. If we take on airs that our names don’t belong in the same sentence with sin, then we risk by that vanity going back into the filth again.

If we have done better than the crowd did on that day, then great: let us throw our crowns at Christ’s feet at the Easter Vigil, for it is the Resurrection that made that possible. On Good Friday, though, let us admit what part we really did play in that day’s events.

I think Our Lady would not refrain from answering the question without that preface, which is added purely lest someone get the wrong idea.

That seems to be the entire implication here…that is, either “oh, I would never say that!” or “it sounds like this is what I want to have happen!” She would not have to say, “they said.” Distancing herself from those she loves would be the last thing on her mind. She would know what she meant. It just would not occur to her to worry that she’d be taken for a sinner or that her meaning was sinful.

We, in contrast, have no standing to be taken as anything but sinners…not because we can never stop sinning, but because our redemption was not our work, while our sin was.
Just to clarify, I do not advocate saying that we are calling for a re-crucifixion (if that is even a word) of Jesus. What I am saying, and I thank you for trying to reiterate this through the course of the thread, is that we share culpability for what happened on Good Friday.
 
#1. In answer to the specific question asked: YES, I hate doing this.

#2. In response to the other responses: YES I know all this, but see answer #1.

#3. Yes, I do say it because “we” are the sinners responcible for His having to give up His life, we are not the plotters but we are ALL sinners.
 
We crucified Him. I did, you did, Adam and Eve did – ALL of us crucified Him.

This is why I weep when the time comes in the Passion narrative for me and everyone else to say, “Crucify him!”

Talk about driving it home!

Peace,
Dante
 
If you encountered some cops today who had arrested a terrorist in a downtown Mall I’m sure you would be happy if the culprit were locked away or even executed (if he deserved it).

Same with the little carpenter from Nazareth - he was stirring up a bunch of troubles according to the authorities. So people (including us) would be happy to see the end of him.

Just as we inherited Adam’s sin we also have the guilt of the Crucifixion to bear. It is an awesome & humbling thought to think that as Humans we killed the Son of God. Quite mind-boggling in fact. With hindsight we try to deny it…but we did.(All humanity). This is why the Mercy of God is so wonderful. Had it been an earthly Father he would have obliterated the miserable little planet in his anger. Luckily God is not like that.
 
Addressing the idea that disciplines change, I posted this earlier:

As far as the Passion Gospels and the participation of the people, this is what the USCCB has to say:

While it has a dramatic quality, the Passion is not so much a drama enacted as a narrative proclaimed solemnly and simply, without candles, incense, greeting, or signs of the cross.
According to the Lectionary for Holy Week; the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM); and the 1988 document from the Congregation for Divine Worship on Easter celebrations, Paschalis Sollemnitatis:
  1. ***The Passion narrative occupies a special place. It should be sung or read in the traditional way, that is, by three persons who take the part of Christ, the narrator, and the people. ***The Passion is proclaimed by deacons or priests, or by lay readers. In the latter case, the part of the Christ should be reserved to the priest.
  2. The order for the celebration of the Lord’s Passion (the Liturgy of the Word, the adoration of the cross, and Holy Communion) that stems from an ancient tradition of the Church should be observed faithfully and religiously and may not be changed by anyone on his own initiative.
So in reference to this discipline being a “modern invention,” you now know that it is not a modern invention. The modern invention is the people not reading their parts.

Look, many things are not comfortable. Confessing my sins to a priest is not comfortable. But I have to do it and it is a discipline. Why should one confess if God already knows what the person has done and that person has apologized? Because only through the priest acting in the person of Jesus, can one be absolved, a power given to the priests by Jesus Himself, when he breathed on the apostles the Holy Spirit.

Dioceses all over the world have no right, no permission to change tradition. And if dioceses are doing this, please let your bishops knows that they are making grave errors. These dioceses are not “getting it.” If anything, they lost “it” whatever “it” is.
 
Thank you all for the depth and civility of this discussion. This is my first Holy Week as a wannabe Catholic, so the discussion has been tremendously edifying for me.

The church where I attended Mass on Palm Sunday had a narrator read the crowd parts, which I see is a big loss. It’ll be interesting to see what they do for the Passion on Friday.

People have written that they are “uncomfortable” speaking “crucify him.” Well, I hope so! I’m also uncomfortable saying the confeitor (and really meaning the words) out loud. We did, through our sins, cause His crucifixion, and this participation in the liturgy really drives that home. Especially to new and less experienced Christians, including children.

You can’t be newer at the Catholic faith than I, and even I realize that we are not calling to crucify Him **again **when we say the words in the liturgy.
 
I think it is pride to say “I would NEVER have been like them” I hope so. But Peter said he would never deny Jesus too. Of course now when I look on an image of Jesus, bruised, beaten and seemingly “lost” I have the advantage of knowing the “rest of the story”. But if I had thought he was the Messiah on Palm Sunday but then seen him beaten by the soldiers that I thought he was going to over throw, my reaction might be different. I hope not. I don’t like thinking of myself like that. But I know I am weak.

Of course I don’t like saying those words but I know that He died because of me.
 
To me, the “crowd” represents human nature. At that time the Jews were expecting the Messiah to be a king from David’s lineage, not some carpenter-shepherd guy who was born in a manger, surrounded by animals!

Despite all of the miracles Jesus performed for them (which should have been more than enough proof), they were still blind to their Saviour. Why? Because they couldn’t let go of their pre-conceived expectations for a Saviour. They couldn’t see (and believe) that their Messiah was standing right in front of them. And yet, Jesus still asks His Father to forgive us because we do not know what we are doing.

I feel like that situation was a test of faith which the Jews (and all of us) ultimately failed. They rejected Jesus because they felt as if they knew better than God. They “knew” who was “worthy” to be the Messiah, and it was obviously not Jesus (so they thought). We just did not have the foresight that God has.

It’s very humbling for me to read the “crowd” part.
 
These snippets are from this past Good Friday’s meditations on the Stations of the Cross, written by Cardinal Ruini:
Lord Jesus, I am one of those who reviled and struck you. It was you yourself who said, “What you have done to one of the least of my brethren, you have done to to me” (Mt 25:40). Lord Jesus, forgive me.
Reading the parts of the crowd during the Passion Narrative only reiterates this.
 
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