Does anyone else think Judas gets a bad rap?

[JonNC]

Does anyone else think Judas gets a bad rap? I mean, he followed Christ. Christ didn’t meet his expectations, and he betrayed Him, but…

I’ll bet you Christ doesn’t meet a lot of expectations. It’s kind of the Divine Incarnate thing, and who claims to know the mind of…

Judas took his own life, but could have been apostle, and I hope he has already or will join the cloud of witnesses.

I know there are a lot of early heresies saying Judas did the right thing, I don’t think so and I’m not proposing any of that rot, but…

Peter.

'nuff said.

I think of Peter Ustinov in the admittedly OK but not great or even really good movie bearing his given name dreaming of the three denials, then a rooster wakes him in the morning out of the dream. I wonder if this is how the first Holy Father awakened every morning.

But still, it is easy to point a finger at Judas. Ooops, all the other fingers I have are pointing at me when I do that…

I feel complete compassion for him. I cannot imagine the loneliness, the isolation, the grief he must have felt.

Jon

 

[HelenRose]

I was specifically refering to what Jesus meant at that time.

I don’t know. I wasn’t there. Do you think that God was unfair and wrong? I am not sure that we are even discussing the same thing.

Are we debating pre-destination?
Are we debating God’s right to judge?

I really don’t understand what this conversation is about.

 

[Exsultet]

Jesus already said what happened to Judas
John 17:12

Yes, I believe that was one of the verses Cardinal Dulles referenced in my linked article.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

I don’t know. I wasn’t there. Do you think that God was unfair and wrong? I am not sure that we are even discussing the same thing.

Are we debating pre-destination?
Are we debating God’s right to judge?

I really don’t understand what this conversation is about.

You know when Jesus said “execept the person meant to be lost” he meant specifically at that time…

 

[Memaw]

It means that God knows from eternity what people choose.

With God, everything is present. There is no past or future. And HE knows everything! HE gave man a free will. I agree, the Mysteries of God are awesome. God Bless, Memaw

 

[HelenRose]

You know when Jesus said “execept the person meant to be lost” he meant specifically at that time…

What are you debating?

We are going around in circles. I really don’t know what you are trying to prove or disprove.

Do you want me to say that I believe that Judas is in Hell?
Do you want me to say that God is unjust?
Do you want me to accept pre-destination?

I don’t know if Judas is in Hell.
I don’t believe that God is unjust.
I believe that we all have free will.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

What are you debating?

We are going around in circles. I really don’t know what you are trying to prove or disprove.

Do you want me to say that I believe that Judas is in Hell?
Do you want me to say that God is unjust?
Do you want me to accept pre-destination?

I don’t know if Judas is in Hell.
I don’t believe that God is unjust.
I believe that we all have free will.

Well He clearly said the son of perdition was lost so He meant Judas.

 

[tp3192000]

Judas Iscariot had his own role in God’s plan of salvation (although had he made different decisions I’m sure God would have had other means). Without his betrayal Christ could not have made the sacrifice He did, at least quite in the manner that He did. So in a way, Judas shouldn’t have such a bad press.

on the other hand - according to some accounts was a thief, he had a mercenary attitude to the money Jesus’ followers had, and above all, he betrayed Our Lord to His death - and then despaired of the forgiveness which even he must have heard from Jesus, could be assured for all, and took his own life.

If the Bible was ‘just a story’ (which it isn’t, but bear with me!), then Judas would certainly be one of the most interesting characters in it.

Should we hate Judas? I don’t think so. (We shouldn’t hate anyone, really). Does he deserve to be celebrated or vindicated? probably not, either…

interesting question, though !

Poor Judas. He made the absolutely worst choices that anyone could make. He allowed Jesus to wash his feet, he ate at the Eucharistic meal and then he ran off to betray his master. He received payment for his treason and led those who would kill Jesus back to him and betrayed Jesus with a kiss.
He deserves whatever punishment, yet as St. Faustina says, we should not underestimate the mercy of God.

 

[HelenRose]

Well He clearly said the son of perdition was lost so He meant Judas.

The Church still does not say that Judas is in Hell. He may be in Hell and then again God’s Mercy is infinite.

Why do you want me to speak beyond what the Church teaches?

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

The Church still does not say that Judas is in Hell. He may be in Hell and then again God’s Mercy is infinite.

Why do you want me to speak beyond what the Church teaches?

True. But given Jesus’ statement, then Judas is in hell.

 

[CarolNoel]

No!

 

[HelenRose]

True. But given Jesus’ statement, then Judas is in hell.

I follow the lead of the Church. The Church doesn’t not declare that Judas is in Hell so who am I to say that my knowledge is more superior than the 2,000 years of Church teaching?

I am no longer going to discuss this because we have both run into a brick wall.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

I follow the lead of the Church. The Church doesn’t not declare that Judas is in Hell so who am I to say that my knowledge is more superior than the 2,000 years of Church teaching?

I am no longer going to discuss this because we have both run into a brick wall.

Okay. But this is what Jesus said.