Does anyone ever know what they are doing when they sin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter OneSheep
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I looked it up.

I did answer you Does anyone ever know what they are doing when they sin?
Actually, though, you did not answer the question about what is going on in the mind of the person, which would go a lot further toward making your point than a generalized statement.

For example, If I make the general statement, “all rabbits are diurnal”, then all I have done is stated a conclusion. If I cannot provide examples to support the conclusion, describe how some phenomenon can actually occur, then the conclusion has no merit, right?
 
I have difficulty seeing where this is coming from. The people killing Jesus didn’t realize He was the Son of God. They thought they were crucifying a blasphemer, doing something for God.

Contrast that to someone stealing when they know stealing is wrong and sinful, they just don’t compare.
 
I have difficulty seeing where this is coming from. The people killing Jesus didn’t realize He was the Son of God. They thought they were crucifying a blasphemer, doing something for God.

Contrast that to someone stealing when they know stealing is wrong and sinful, they just don’t compare.
Hello Kei,

For starters, you have used insight to see some of what was going on in the minds of the crowd, which is exactly the process aimed for here, it is a journey of discovery. Yes, they thought he was a blasphemer, and that violation of personal conscience triggered other emotions and blindness. There were also many levels of ignorance.

I agree that the comparison is difficult, but it is possible. I start with the question, what is the reasoning in the mind of the thief? If he actually knows what he is doing is wrong, what is going on in his mind?

Would you be willing to take a shot at one of those questions?

Thanks for your response.
 
Well it depends really. He might be greedy and want money. Or he might think he needs to because of his family. If this is actually the case, this might not actually be stealing due to the ultimate destination of goods. If someone knows something is wrong but does it anyway it is different from not knowing it is wrong and doing it (or rather thinking it is right and doing it like the Jews).
 
40.png
steve-b:
And all I’m doing is giving information properly referenced. What anyone does with it is their business. As I showed you, those are Calvinist beliefs NOT Catholic.
Yes, you showed that the words do have an association with Calvinism. However, a person can use a term based on its latin roots, and it doesn’t have to have the same attached theology. For example, while “arianism” is definitely associated with Arian, the word “lapsarian” does not have to be associated with a particular ideology, it simply means “having to do with the fall”. The prefixes “supra” and “infra” add additional meaning. Calvinism as a theology does not have a copyright on Latin or Greek.

All of the predestination stuff is Calvinist, and those aspects had nothing to do with the ways the words were explained to me in context.
I have to say, I don’t respect his position here
Well the way it was presented by that blogger, I wasn’t so happy about his position either. There is probably more to know. We are called to give people the benefit of the doubt, not calling something “the tip of an iceberg”, right?
The purpose here is to pass on good solid information to counter all the nonsense out there,

I merely showed you who those terms were associated with. They also have predestination written into them.
 
Last edited:
I have often wondered whether or not I know what I am doing when I sin. What it must look like to God, Jesus, and heaven above. I don’t think that we fully comprehend the magnitude of our wrongs.
 
I have often wondered whether or not I know what I am doing when I sin. What it must look like to God, Jesus, and heaven above. I don’t think that we fully comprehend the magnitude of our wrongs.
I agree, I don’t think we can fully comprehend the magnitude of our wrongs.

However, we can get an inkling of such magnitude when we come to find wonder and awe in what it means to be human. As we grow in love for others, we have a better understanding of human dignity and value. We can look at our decisions made when young, especially the hurtful ones, and come to realize that we were behaving out of a really undeveloped sense of human value.

For example, I remember as a child being mean to my younger brother, but I wouldn’t ever be that mean to anyone today. What changed? My own awareness of what it is like to be the recipient of such persecution, and the grace to have love be my guide when dealing with others. It is a grace fostered by awareness, tied to awareness.
 
Well it depends really.
I agree, there are many different scenarios. I think for our purposes we can test the question with the “worst case” ones.
He might be greedy and want money.
Yes, this would be an example of a WCS.
The words “He might be greedy”, though, really doesn’t describe what is happening (or happened) in his mind, it is only an evaluation of his behavior. If he is enslaved by the desire to have “more”, then he is subject to blindness of the needs of others, for desire can and does block empathy. Here are examples of what is going on in the mind of the thief:

A. “The store owners are rich and they have insurance. This is not going to break them.”
B. “The store owner is probably some rich (name the race) guy, those people don’t deserve to have money. It is not wrong to steal from a (name the race) person.”
C. “I don’t care if someone loses money by my stealing this, they didn’t post security, so its their fault for being so stupid and making stuff so easy to steal.”
D. “Everybody steals stuff. If I don’t steal this, someone else will.”

In most of the cases above, the person’s conscience is either malformed, or compromised by a desire for justice (based on perceptions) that conflicts with the common righteousness of “do not steal”.

Do you agree that all of the above come from a position of ignorance or blindness? We can look deeper into any one of these if it could be coming from a position of awareness.
 
The human creature is ordered to rationality.
What you are showing is proof.
It is called rationalization. It is done when someone knows something is wrong but is deciding to go through with it in the first place.
If they are consumed by greed or the like, then that means they have given up their minds to evil over morality.
This rationalization is very different from someone who thinks they are doing something right and are following God.
Someone who is stealing (by this I mean taking without proper need) and who knows that stealing is wrong, but tries to rationalize himself into it, is doing the rationalization because he knows it is wrong. He’s already stained himself even if he does not end up stealing.
 
Someone who is stealing (by this I mean taking without proper need) and who knows that stealing is wrong, but tries to rationalize himself into it, is doing the rationalization because he knows it is wrong. He’s already stained himself even if he does not end up stealing.
Well, he wants to steal the item, so his mind is weighing the importance of the “do not steal” rule because it stands in the way of what he wants. The point of the matter is that if he believes his own rationale, he is believing an untruth. Can we say that a person who sees an untruth as truth really knows what he is doing?

There is a “blindness test” to apply. If the person later on regrets his action because he is no longer overcome with desire and is now “thinking straight”, then his conscience was intact, but his desire blinded him to the importance of the rule. The person who is rationalizing is already blind, the blindness is not chosen, it is subconscious, and for all the “shoulds” we put upon the person, like “he should have ignored the blindness” the fact is that he was overcome by his blindness. If, for the “blindness test” he does not later on regret his action, then his conscience is malformed. A person who is blind, or has a malformed conscious, does not know what he is doing, right? Remember, I am using “knowing” in an all-inclusive way.

Then we can add another test to the knowledge of his act. Would he have stolen the item from the person he loves most? His child? His mother? If he would not, his own capacity for love of others is limited, he does not know of the dignity and value of others. OTOH if he would even steal from people he loves very much, then he is in a position of despair, likely due to addiction, which brings us back to blindness. Bottom line: a person who cannot see human dignity in everyone, and does not have the presence of mind to treat everyone as they would the person they love most, does not know what they are doing.

Bringing this back to Jesus’ words from the cross, the crowd not only did not know what they were doing in crucifying Jesus, those responsible for the torture of the other two men hanging also did not know what they were doing.

Do you find a glitch in my observations here? Please let me know.

Thanks for your reply. 🙂
 
Just for the sake of argument: did the Roman Soldiers sin, the ones who scourged Him and the ones who nailed Him; for they were “only” following the orders of those appointed above them? Like I said, for the sake of argument😇
 
Just for the sake of argument: did the Roman Soldiers sin, the ones who scourged Him and the ones who nailed Him; for they were “only” following the orders of those appointed above them? Like I said, for the sake of argument😇
1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."121

For the sake of clarification 🙂, we can say that any torture or violation of human dignity is a deed contrary to eternal law.

Sin is not only caused by “perverse attachment to certain goods”, unless hatred itself can be categorized as such.
 
Last edited:
I looked it up.

I did answer you Does anyone ever know what they are doing when they sin?
Actually, though, you did not answer the question about what is going on in the mind of the person, which would go a lot further toward making your point than a generalized statement.

For example, If I make the general statement, “all rabbits are diurnal”, then all I have done is stated a conclusion. If I cannot provide examples to support the conclusion, describe how some phenomenon can actually occur, then the conclusion has no merit, right?
Can you come up with an example, Steve, where you can really demonstrate the “knowing” in his mind, that all relevant information is at the forefront?

I invite any readers to jump in and try to find an example or create a scenario in which a person knows what they are doing when they sin.

Thanks! 🙂
 
Father God warned Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, or surely they will die. I do not believe that Adam and Eve were fully aware of the consequence of their sin. Did they know that they would be cast out of the Garden of Eden? Did they know that God would distant Himself from mankind and return to the heavens? Did they understand what God meant when He said, “surely you will die?” Did they understand that this was a spiritual death? And that all mankind will now be awaiting the coming Messiah? Did they understand that the soul would be without God’s love, and that the soul would be in ruins awaiting to be redeemed and salvaged by the divine powers of Christ? I believe if Adam and Eve were fully aware of these things, like God would be, they would have never of sinned. I do not believe that mankind is fully aware of what they are doing when they sin. For if they were completely aware of what they were doing, they would not sin. IMHO 🙂
 
For if they were completely aware of what they were doing, they would not sin. IMHO
Has your observation of this helped in forgiving others and yourself? Has it helped in realizing, knowing God’s forgiveness?
 
Last edited:
40.png
steve-b:
I looked it up.

I did answer you Does anyone ever know what they are doing when they sin?
Actually, though, you did not answer the question about what is going on in the mind of the person, which would go a lot further toward making your point than a generalized statement.

For example, If I make the general statement, “all rabbits are diurnal”, then all I have done is stated a conclusion. If I cannot provide examples to support the conclusion, describe how some phenomenon can actually occur, then the conclusion has no merit, right?
Can you come up with an example, Steve, where you can really demonstrate the “knowing” in his mind, that all relevant information is at the forefront?

I invite any readers to jump in and try to find an example or create a scenario in which a person knows what they are doing when they sin.

Thanks! 🙂
post 126 I offered the following, (btw you didn’t answer)

.“But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him”


That knowledge is front and center. Jesus is telling us about Himself. How far would you take that with Him?
 
Last edited:
My observations that we are not fully aware of what we do when we sin has humbled me in knowing that I am stupid before God and has made me realize that His love and mercy is greater than I know. For, God and His Son Jesus truly do see things clearly and for the way they are. Their vigilance would be much greater than ours and it would be hard for our minds to grasp the magnitude of their understanding.
 
post 126 I offered the following, (btw you didn’t answer)

.“But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him”

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search

That knowledge is front and center. Jesus is telling us about Himself. How far would you take that with Him?
I think you may perhaps not understand what I am asking for, but let me give this a try.

Let’s say a person has in his mind, at the forefront, .“But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him”.

Is this the person who you are saying is simultaneously, at the moment, choosing to sin?
 
My observations that we are not fully aware of what we do when we sin has humbled me in knowing that I am stupid before God and has made me realize that His love and mercy is greater than I know.
Me too! It is no wonder that we are called “sheep” in scripture, we are so incredibly dull-witted. Awareness is an extremely humbling experience. A long time ago, before I was “OneSheep” I was “dumbsheep”.

But what about forgiveness? In seeing the blindness and lack of awareness, has it helped you be able to forgive at a deeper level?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top