Does anyone have bad stories from their Protestant days?

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As an Epicopalian, I have contact with tons of ex Catholics, and I’ve yet to see one who was angry, and certainly none who had any ill will toward the RCC. We disagree on doctrine period.
Experience is a funny thing. During my time as an Episcopalian, seems like I never met one ex-Catholic who wasn’t angry or who *didn’t *hold ill will against the Church. Lots of divorcees who were upset that the Catholic church “wouldn’t let” them take communion after remarrying, for example. Or that the Church “kicked them out” because they got divorced. It truly seemed like the “disagree[ment] on doctrine” you speak of didn’t occur until it got applied to them… 🤷
 
Experience is a funny thing. During my time as an Episcopalian, seems like I never met one ex-Catholic who wasn’t angry or who *didn’t *hold ill will against the Church. Lots of divorcees who were upset that the Catholic church “wouldn’t let” them take communion after remarrying, for example. Or that the Church “kicked them out” because they got divorced. It truly seemed like the “disagree[ment] on doctrine” you speak of didn’t occur until it got applied to them… 🤷
Yes anecdotal information is not always reliable. Actually I prefer to rely on research and sound polling. Pew reports for instance, that most RC’s leave the church over doctrinal issues. I accord this high acclaim since it denotes an intelligent, thinking laity is at work in the RCC. Protestants on the other hand, leave Protestantism for other denominations for much more frivolous reasons.

I’m most aware of the fact that most of the right wing Catholic establishment claims that one of their three main excuses why people leave RCC is because they want to get away with something not permitted in the church. That would mean for me, that I must be a lesbian, who used contraception that failed, wants to get an abortion, wants to marry my partner, and then wants to be a priest. Unfortunately not a single one applies to me, but those are the essential reasons I left the RCC. I know its so much nicer to believe that I am lazy, or improperly catechized–the other two excuses posited upon those of us who have left.

I guess one might be angry with the RCC if one remained unhappy in one’s new faith community. I haven’t met anyone in my church who is. But as I said, anecdotal information is sometimes not reliable.
 
SpiritMeadow,

Would you agree with me that what you are saying here goes beyond Branch Theory? After all, “Branch Theory” teaches that the one holy catholic and apostolic Church is really a collection of independent but “invisibly united” bodies/denominations; whereas you are going further and saying that even this was not established by Christ but rather by human design and historical circumstance. Right?
Glad to see I haven’t completely misread you.

BTW, my brain might be little slow on this topic. You have to understand that I’m used to think about Branch Theorists as being “on the other side” if you will. I haven’t spent so much time thinking about positions that are shall-we-say on the other side of Branch Theory.

P.S. So, are you an ex- Branch Theorist? Just out of curiosity.
 
It makes me a bit leery now of making statements about what the Vatican says or teaches based on what many say here now.
I’m reminded of a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode where Captain Picard is talking with the world leader of a planet with whom humans had only recent established communications. He tells her that humans had already been observing her planet for some time, including among other things listening to their popular music – which causes her to grimace a little and remark ‘I hate to think what kind of picture you would get of us, based on our popular music.’ (Isn’t it funny what stick in your mind, years later?)

My apologies to non- Star Trek fans. Anyhow, in much the same way, I hate to think what kind of picture you’d get of the Catholic Church, based on Catholic sites on the net – especially those with user-generated content.
 
I’m reminded of a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode where Captain Picard is talking with the world leader of a planet with whom humans had only recent established communications. He tells her that humans had already been observing her planet for some time, including among other things listening to their popular music – which causes her to grimace a little and remark ‘I hate to think what kind of picture you would get of us, based on our popular music.’ (Isn’t it funny what stick in your mind, years later?)

My apologies to non- Star Trek fans. Anyhow, in much the same way, I hate to think what kind of picture you’d get of the Catholic Church, based on Catholic sites on the net – especially those with user-generated content.
Is that the episode where Riker was incognito, in disguise on that alien planet to make first contact when he’s injured and is taken to a hospital? It sounds familiar? LOL
 
Yes anecdotal information is not always reliable. Actually I prefer to rely on research and sound polling. Pew reports for instance, that most RC’s leave the church over doctrinal issues. I accord this high acclaim since it denotes an intelligent, thinking laity is at work in the RCC. Protestants on the other hand, leave Protestantism for other denominations for much more frivolous reasons.

I’m most aware of the fact that most of the right wing Catholic establishment claims that one of their three main excuses why people leave RCC is because they want to get away with something not permitted in the church. That would mean for me, that I must be a lesbian, who used contraception that failed, wants to get an abortion, wants to marry my partner, and then wants to be a priest. Unfortunately not a single one applies to me, but those are the essential reasons I left the RCC. I know its so much nicer to believe that I am lazy, or improperly catechized–the other two excuses posited upon those of us who have left.

I guess one might be angry with the RCC if one remained unhappy in one’s new faith community. I haven’t met anyone in my church who is. But as I said, anecdotal information is sometimes not reliable.
Essentially aren’t we as Christians supposed to conform ourselves to Christ, trust in His Church and be changed by HIM not expect Him to be changed by US? Seriously, isn’t religion supposed to change us? Isn’t Christianity about obedience? Just because we, in our human weakness and misplaced pity, want gays and lesbians to marry, does it necessarily mean that God believes that? We see nothing anywhere in scripture in OT and NT supporting anything of the sort…quite the contrary. Or female priestesses, contraception, abortion, divorce, etc. etc. All the issues you name are condemned by scripture repeatedly, condemned by tradition, and can be condemned by reason…and yet, because you are not comfortable with them, you leave Catholicism. Is that true religion? Going to a place that confirms what you already believed to be true? That’s just like looking into a mirror and calling it Jesus? Isn’t that idolatry? It’s Church-shopping, trying to find the group that believes what I believe.

Contrary to the liberal thinking, many Catholics were pro-contraception and divorce, even pro abortion and pro gay, and then had an encounter with Christ or read scripture, were called by the Holy Spirit, and Catholicism found them. I’ve had to throw away some of my misconceptions about social issues or lifestyle because the Faith, Bible, and Church challenged what I believed.

When I was younger, I was pro-choice. I was ok with gays, could’ve cared less. Birth control pills were absolutely good to go with me. I thought a lot of more left-leaning ideals. But as I encountered the Bible as a fallen-away Catholic in other churches I discovered that to be a Christian believing in those sinful, wordly ways was incompatible with Christianity and Catholicism called me and challenged me and made me admit I was wrong.

Religion shapes, molds, changes, doesn’t reaffirm. The Holy Spirit is a changing agent, not status quo for secularism. God tells us “My ways are not your ways.”

What you’re saying is, “Oprah and the Secular Liberal media’s ways will be your ways, it’s just common sense, Lord!” I can’t buy that…

As an Anglican I was taught the three-legged stool: scripture, tradition, reason

I figured that they were each about 33%. I notice in Episcopalians “reason” (liberal reason) gets about 85% and it’s mostly modern reasoning devoid of the other legs

I prefer the Catholic three legged stool: scripture, tradition, magisterium—can’t go wrong that way…

With abortion especially, why can’t you just at least err on the side of caution?
 
Essentially aren’t we as Christians supposed to conform ourselves to Christ, trust in His Church and be changed by HIM not expect Him to be changed by US? Seriously, isn’t religion supposed to change us? Isn’t Christianity about obedience? Just because we, in our human weakness and misplaced pity, want gays and lesbians to marry, does it necessarily mean that God believes that? We see nothing anywhere in scripture in OT and NT supporting anything of the sort…quite the contrary. Or female priestesses, contraception, abortion, divorce, etc. etc. All the issues you name are condemned by scripture repeatedly, condemned by tradition, and can be condemned by reason…and yet, because you are not comfortable with them, you leave Catholicism. Is that true religion? Going to a place that confirms what you already believed to be true? That’s just like looking into a mirror and calling it Jesus? Isn’t that idolatry? It’s Church-shopping, trying to find the group that believes what I believe.

Contrary to the liberal thinking, many Catholics were pro-contraception and divorce, even pro abortion and pro gay, and then had an encounter with Christ or read scripture, were called by the Holy Spirit, and Catholicism found them. I’ve had to throw away some of my misconceptions about social issues or lifestyle because the Faith, Bible, and Church challenged what I believed.

When I was younger, I was pro-choice. I was ok with gays, could’ve cared less. Birth control pills were absolutely good to go with me. I thought a lot of more left-leaning ideals. But as I encountered the Bible as a fallen-away Catholic in other churches I discovered that to be a Christian believing in those sinful, wordly ways was incompatible with Christianity and Catholicism called me and challenged me and made me admit I was wrong.

Religion shapes, molds, changes, doesn’t reaffirm. The Holy Spirit is a changing agent, not status quo for secularism. God tells us “My ways are not your ways.”

What you’re saying is, “Oprah and the Secular Liberal media’s ways will be your ways, it’s just common sense, Lord!” I can’t buy that…

As an Anglican I was taught the three-legged stool: scripture, tradition, reason

I figured that they were each about 33%. I notice in Episcopalians “reason” (liberal reason) gets about 85% and it’s mostly modern reasoning devoid of the other legs

I prefer the Catholic three legged stool: scripture, tradition, magisterium—can’t go wrong that way…

With abortion especially, why can’t you just at least err on the side of caution?
That is single-handedly the best post I’ve ever read on this forum. It speaks of pretty much exactly why I’m abandoning the Episcopal Church.

(caution: this section contains facts which may be offensive to some)

The Episcopal Church’s General Conference 2009 will be primarily about recognizing same-sex unions. That’s not my opinion. That’s a large part of the proposed legislation. The only feast days that make it on to the TEC website are the ones that have some possible relation to with saving the environment. Just spend some time watching the front page change. theepiscopalchurch.org.

While my parish was an orthodox one, the national church has gone off the deep end, religiously.

(now more facts)

The current debate (yes, there’s a vote going on) is about whether to confirm the election of a lay-ordained Buddhist as bishop (Rev. Forrester). I’m not making this up.

Anything, literally, goes in the TEC if you can muster the votes and if it complies with the leftist-leaning politics of the day.

(one last fact)
I’ve never voted Republican in my life, so I’m not being a crass, biased political conservative in saying any of this. It’s all verifiably true.
 
Bad stories?
How about being a 9 year old little girl whose Church of Christ (not congregational Northern) Sunday School teacher is telling us about who is going to heaven and who won’t/
Let’s see…it went like this.
Teacher: Jesus wants us to all come to live with Him in Heaven. But some people won’t do what Jesus wants. Some people will go to Hell.
1st child: Is my grandma in heaven?
Teacher: Did she live a good life? Did she love Jesus?
1st child: I think so.
Teacher: Then she probably is in Heaven. What church did she go to?
1st child: She was a Baptist.
Teacher: Well, we hope she’s in heaven then. If she went to our church we could know she was.
2nd child: My uncle was an elder here. He’s really in heaven.
Teacher: That’s right.
Me: I have a friend who is sick. If she dies will she go to heaven?
Teacher: What church does she go to??
Me: The Catholic Church.
Teacher: No, I am sorry. Catholics do not get to go to heaven. They go to hell. You should try to help her become a Christian.
I got up and ran out of the room crying. I ran down the stairs to where my mom’s classroom was. I ALMOST ran into the baptismal trough (a lovely perfectly clear marble pool of water) instead of taking the right turn at the bottom of the stairs. Angels stopped me.
When my mom came out, I told her what Teacher had said. We left and mom didn’t take us back. We went to the Methodist church after that for several years.
 
I’m reminded of a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode where Captain Picard is talking with the world leader of a planet with whom humans had only recent established communications. He tells her that humans had already been observing her planet for some time, including among other things listening to their popular music – which causes her to grimace a little and remark ‘I hate to think what kind of picture you would get of us, based on our popular music.’ (Isn’t it funny what stick in your mind, years later?)

My apologies to non- Star Trek fans. Anyhow, in much the same way, I hate to think what kind of picture you’d get of the Catholic Church, based on Catholic sites on the net – especially those with user-generated content.
I always liked the episode where Picard went on a planet to live with an alien where the universal translator didn’t work. He had to learn the alien’s culture and phrase referrence to understand the nuance of the language. And I look at our language and find the same issue. Doesn’t really have any relevance to this thread except for the fact that Many Protestants are very judgemental of Catholics because of missed deffinitions for specific theological consepts.
 
Is that the episode where Riker was incognito, in disguise on that alien planet to make first contact when he’s injured and is taken to a hospital?
Yes, I believe so. I think “First Contact” is also the title of the episode (not to be confused with the movie of the same name).
 
I always liked the episode where Picard went on a planet to live with an alien where the universal translator didn’t work. He had to learn the alien’s culture and phrase referrence to understand the nuance of the language. And I look at our language and find the same issue.
I was about to say that I don’t remember that episode. Then it hit me: is that when the alien doesn’t really use verbs, but always speaks in cultural references? Like if I were to say “Juliet, on her balcony”?
Doesn’t really have any relevance to this thread except for the fact that Many Protestants are very judgemental of Catholics because of missed definitions for specific theological concepts.
Indeed. Wouldn’t we be better off without all those judgemental Protestants? 😉
 
I was about to say that I don’t remember that episode. Then it hit me: is that when the alien doesn’t really use verbs, but always speaks in cultural references? Like if I were to say “Juliet, on her balcony”?

Indeed. Wouldn’t we be better off without all those judgemental Protestants? 😉
Yes. Thats the one. And Yes except for me when I was protestant.
 
Glad to see I haven’t completely misread you.

BTW, my brain might be little slow on this topic. You have to understand that I’m used to think about Branch Theorists as being “on the other side” if you will. I haven’t spent so much time thinking about positions that are shall-we-say on the other side of Branch Theory.

P.S. So, are you an ex- Branch Theorist? Just out of curiosity.
You know Peter, I’m new enough to Episcopalianism and this whole Protestant/Anglo-catholic whatever to not know enough about branch theory. I have never had a real issue with RC teaching that the first “church that was centralized” was Roman. That appears clear. But the rather bellicose claim that it was “THE church ordained” by Jesus just sent me reeling. I can understand that RC’'s as well as Protestants might argue that God wants the universal church united as such into one tent, but I have always seen the argument as to which one more faithfully respresents the original idea of what Christianity is, to be the test. I think most of it is fairly irrelevant actually. We should all be striving to understand Christ as best we can. That comes of course from scripture, and some from tradition. Some of tradition is just based on faulty understanding and knowledge and needs be discarded. Some of dogma needs to be discarded as faulty. Reason is our methodology for determining these things. We have Jesus to help us, for he explained to the Pharisees more than once that they were letting tradition that no longer secured its original purpose to hold over common sense. Some of us have trouble getting that.

So feel free to enlighten me on branch theory. 😃
 
I’m reminded of a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode where Captain Picard is talking with the world leader of a planet with whom humans had only recent established communications. He tells her that humans had already been observing her planet for some time, including among other things listening to their popular music – which causes her to grimace a little and remark ‘I hate to think what kind of picture you would get of us, based on our popular music.’ (Isn’t it funny what stick in your mind, years later?)

My apologies to non- Star Trek fans. Anyhow, in much the same way, I hate to think what kind of picture you’d get of the Catholic Church, based on Catholic sites on the net – especially those with user-generated content.
:extrahappy: oh lordy. I use Star Trek all the time in my posts on my blog. I’m a firm believer than most of lifes questions can be answered by one episode or another. So very true Peter!

Actually they weren’t referring to this site, but to what is happening among the Neuman group and some bishops. There is some warring going on between bishops as to who is coddling Democrats these days. Actually its very sad to see from my point of view. It’s hard to imagine anyone more conservative than Benedict, but that seems to be the case in America.

Actually the Vatican sent congrats to Obama in November, which is way abnormal. They usually wait until after the inauguration. That was a sign they were on the whole okay with the election. If ya go to Politics 2009, he’s is I believe the antichrist? LOL…
 
Essentially aren’t we as Christians supposed to conform ourselves to Christ, trust in His Church and be changed by HIM not expect Him to be changed by US? Seriously, isn’t religion supposed to change us? Isn’t Christianity about obedience? Just because we, in our human weakness and misplaced pity, want gays and lesbians to marry, does it necessarily mean that God believes that? We see nothing anywhere in scripture in OT and NT supporting anything of the sort…quite the contrary. Or female priestesses, contraception, abortion, divorce, etc. etc. All the issues you name are condemned by scripture repeatedly, condemned by tradition, and can be condemned by reason…and yet, because you are not comfortable with them, you leave Catholicism. Is that true religion? Going to a place that confirms what you already believed to be true? That’s just like looking into a mirror and calling it Jesus? Isn’t that idolatry? It’s Church-shopping, trying to find the group that believes what I believe.

We are to conform ourselves to Christ. Nobody said anything about trusting a church. That would be idolatry. We should expect to be changed by him and we should take on Christ into ourselves. We are obligated to do our best to truly understand what he taught and why. That leads a good many of us to believe that Jesus would not condemn many of the things you talk about. A church does that. Properly understood (and I recognize that is subjective on my part, but I claim that the majority of experts agree with me), scripture doesn’t condemn most of these things. There is strong evidence especially for Jesus and Paul both treating women with great equality, and using them in roles that suggested they were disciples along with the men. Mary was accorded the best place as sitting at his feet (synonymous for discipleship) and most gospel accounts give the first good news to a Samaritan woman and of the resurrection to another woman. These are preachings!
. So I don’t find the condemnation you do. And you don’t go to religion for answers, you go to your heart. The church is a guide, when it errs, since it is nothing but a collection of individuals guided as we all are by the spirit, we leave to find where the spirit is being interpreted more correctly.
When I was younger, I was pro-choice. I was ok with gays, could’ve cared less. Birth control pills were absolutely good to go with me. I thought a lot of more left-leaning ideals. But as I encountered the Bible as a fallen-away Catholic in other churches I discovered that to be a Christian believing in those sinful, wordly ways was incompatible with Christianity and Catholicism called me and challenged me and made me admit I was wrong.
 
Actually they weren’t referring to this site, but to what is happening among the Neuman group and some bishops.
OK, but who’s the Neuman group?
It’s hard to imagine anyone more conservative than Benedict, but that seems to be the case in America.
Oh there’s tons who are more conservative than Benedict – and I don’t just mean the SSPX, SSPV, etc.

The interesting thing is that they tend to downplay their disagreements with him (or so it seems to me; I could be completely wrong). For example, I’ve seen surprisingly little outcry about the Pope’s statement that sola fide “is true if faith is not opposed to charity, to love”.

(Another example of “more conservative than the Pope” would be those who want a dogmatic definition on “Co-redemptrix”. Only thing is, I’m not sure if they are best classified as “more conservative than the Pope” or “more liberal than the Pope”. I guess we could always fall back on the old “more Catholic than the Pope”. :D)
 
OK, but who’s the Neuman group?

Oh there’s tons who are more conservative than Benedict – and I don’t just mean the SSPX, SSPV, etc.

The interesting thing is that they tend to downplay their disagreements with him (or so it seems to me; I could be completely wrong). For example, I’ve seen surprisingly little outcry about the Pope’s statement that sola fide “is true if faith is not opposed to charity, to love”.

(Another example of “more conservative than the Pope” would be those who want a dogmatic definition on “Co-redemptrix”. Only thing is, I’m not sure if they are best classified as “more conservative than the Pope” or “more liberal than the Pope”. I guess we could always fall back on the old “more Catholic than the Pope”. :D)
Perhaps I mispelled it? Cardinal Newman society? something like that. That group of ultra right wing Catholicism is pushing the Notre Dame thing.

You, I’m sure are right about being more conservative than the pope. When I used to argue about the death penalty, some here told me that JPII spoke on his own, and the church 'still allowed them" to favor killing people. LOL…I’m sure the same goes on with Benedict.
 
OK, but who’s the Neuman group?

Oh there’s tons who are more conservative than Benedict – and I don’t just mean the SSPX, SSPV, etc.

The interesting thing is that they tend to downplay their disagreements with him (or so it seems to me; I could be completely wrong). For example, I’ve seen surprisingly little outcry about the Pope’s statement that sola fide “is true if faith is not opposed to charity, to love”.

(Another example of “more conservative than the Pope” would be those who want a dogmatic definition on “Co-redemptrix”. Only thing is, I’m not sure if they are best classified as “more conservative than the Pope” or “more liberal than the Pope”. I guess we could always fall back on the old “more Catholic than the Pope”. :D)
Where does the Pope say this?
 
Hello?!! People I want to read your crazy mishaps and corn-waggle stories, please stay on topic.:mad:
 
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