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josh987654321
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lol, yea me too … adultery … murder, hes probably cool with it all … who knows right?I focus more on whether or not God loves sinners rather than whether or not He accepts adultery…
Does anyone here, that believes in God, actually think that God accepts gay marriage?
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Marie5890
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When at my personal judgement, what I sense will be happening is the following…
“Marie, how did you treat so-and-so when they were in need? Did you visit this person in prison. When this person was hurting and discouraged, did you listen?”…that kind of examination…
I really dont expect
“So Marie, did you know I disapprove of (name the issue) and did you get involved in the politics of it in your culture?”…That kind of examination at personal judgement doesnt fit with the personal encounter I have had with Our Lord…
Perhaps others envision their personal judgements differently…
“Marie, how did you treat so-and-so when they were in need? Did you visit this person in prison. When this person was hurting and discouraged, did you listen?”…that kind of examination…
I really dont expect
“So Marie, did you know I disapprove of (name the issue) and did you get involved in the politics of it in your culture?”…That kind of examination at personal judgement doesnt fit with the personal encounter I have had with Our Lord…
Perhaps others envision their personal judgements differently…
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PRmerger
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And the reason you know that this is what God asks of us… is because the Catholic Church told you that this is what God asks of us.
If you saw someone beating his wife, and the politics of the day determined that this was moral, I suspect that God would indeed judge you harshly for not getting “involved in the politics of it in your culture.”
That you stood by and watched someone be beaten…well, I suspect that this would not be seen in a good light.
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josh987654321
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Fair enough, but to join this thread, I assume you’d have a view on same sex marriage, do you percieve us as doing something wrong by being against same sex marriage? I don’t know why anyone would say something like “I don’t know how God feels about marriage” when it was one of his teachings.
New Testament:
The reason for my talking about this, is because of the number of Christian men and women who seem to be supporting the notion of same sex marriage despite the clear teachings on it.
I get that we all err and that we all fall short, and that above all love and mercy are the most important, but I don’t get why people would throw the rest out the window, why they would advocate that lifestyle for their homosexual brothers and sisters, why Christians would go out of their way to support and encourage homosexuals down that path, I believe it’s only right and just to show love and mercy toward our homosexual borthers and sisters who have taken that road, but to advocate it?
Thank you for reading
Josh
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Marie5890
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No I get exactly what you are saying and I am very clear on Our Lord’s teachings.The reason for my talking about this, is because of the number of Christian men and women who seem to be supporting the notion of same sex marriage despite the clear teachings on it.
Thank you for reading
Josh
I just dont put intense focus on that over how Our Lord expects us to treat each other.
I am one to be clear on the teachings, yet how I treat another is what I am going to asked about…
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EasterJoy
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Among the spiritual works of mercy are admonishing the sinner, instructing the ignorant, and counseling the doubtful. Aren’t we also worried that the Lord will say, “I did not know the way, and you left me to wander in error”? Did he not, after all, send out Apostles preaching* repentance*?
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josh987654321
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Thank you EasterJoy, that was beautifully put I believe.
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BellsMom
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Just because its proclaimed to be true doesn’t mean all Christians will believe it.
Many will say, “They can’t pick and choose! They’re cafeteria Catholics!” It seems a lot of people don’t care and will pick and choose what teachings to accept and follow.
For myself, even if I was a Christian, I would reject this teaching as a something that’s just a reflection of the writers culture, their fear of otherness, their lack of ability to understand and value everyone’s humanity and not just the people that are exactly like them and their tribe. I guess I’d be a cafeteria Christian.
Many people talk about poor teaching/understanding being at fault when someone who is a Christian breaks with official teaching. I think a lot of times they have heard all the teachings decided they don’t believe.
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josh987654321
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May I ask, how you percieve us to be treating our homosexual brothers and sisters by being against same sex marriage?
Thank you for reading
Josh
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josh987654321
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I understand what you are saying and I would be inclined to agree with you, if it were not for reason, if it were not for the reality of such a teaching, the reality that we are a two gender species of a man and a woman, the reality of the reproductive system between the two, the reality that all evidence points to our sexual organs being designed for reproduction.
The question that comes to my mind with the existance of God, is there a design for sexuality? did God design two distinct sexes, a man and a woman? did he design the complementarity and compatibility between the two hence the reproductive system? the compatibility between a man and womans reproductive organs?
I believe that not one person doesn’t suffer from an immoral desire and that our desires are not who we are, because we make that choice. I believe that the morality of the act doesn’t change simply because of how much we desire it, because I think that would be like throwing our hands up in the air, wrecklessly giving into our every desire and saying “If God didn’t want me to do this than he wouldn’t have given me the desire to do it.”
Do you mind if I ask whether you believe in God? (I probably should have asked this question first).
Thank you for reading
Josh
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HandyAndy
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Marie5890…What ever you follow or believe is really yours to reconcile with the teachings of Christ…and your right!
The issue here, is that laws to govern a people will be rewritten, sanctioning a disordered behavior. This is a direct attack on Christian teachings. The Bible is very clear cut on this issue. A sinful act will be given approval and be hence forth deemed to be acceptable under the laws of man…in plain site of God…and in direct violation of God’s law.
It will be a shameful day in the life of Christians everywhere, when our arrogance leads us to believe we know better then the Father. When we put our own desires a head of the will of God.
We flip him the bird on this one to our own demise. This is not even a close call.
You can’t plead the fifth on this one. You know he condemns such behavior. It is a biologically disordered sexual action.
The issue here, is that laws to govern a people will be rewritten, sanctioning a disordered behavior. This is a direct attack on Christian teachings. The Bible is very clear cut on this issue. A sinful act will be given approval and be hence forth deemed to be acceptable under the laws of man…in plain site of God…and in direct violation of God’s law.
It will be a shameful day in the life of Christians everywhere, when our arrogance leads us to believe we know better then the Father. When we put our own desires a head of the will of God.
We flip him the bird on this one to our own demise. This is not even a close call.
You can’t plead the fifth on this one. You know he condemns such behavior. It is a biologically disordered sexual action.
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stewstew03
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EasterJoy
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You talk as if homosexuality was unknown in ancient Greece and Rome. You also speak with a provincialism that presumes that our own culture is superior to others in its understanding of morality. Why anyone would conclude that our culture is some sort of moral paragon is hard to imagine. Self-restraint? What is that? Self-mastery? Who wants that? It would be easier to conclude that we are constructing a moral cesspool for ourselves that has been unrivaled by any society since the declining years of Rome! In the light of history, it is far easier to believe we will be seen as a moral low point, not a high point!
At any rate, as Christians have been taught to remember that a) the truth will not change and b) there will be false teachers coming who will claim that it has, and that they will deceive many, rather than a few. Both the Lord and the Apostles made this very clear. From the very beginning, would-be disciples have been attracted to the teachings of Jesus and then falling away because some teaching or other was too hard.
Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?” Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.” As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. John 6:60-66
There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their licentious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled. …These people are waterless springs and mists driven by a gale; for them the gloom of darkness has been reserved. For, talking empty bombast, they seduce with licentious desires of the flesh those who have barely escaped from people who live in error. They promise them freedom, though they themselves are slaves of corruption, for a person is a slave of whatever overcomes him. For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them. What is expressed in the true proverb has happened to them, “The dog returns to its own vomit,” and “A bathed sow returns to wallowing in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:1-2, 17-22
If anyone is surprised that no form of Christianity that conforms to the plain meaning of the New Testament is winning any world-wide popularity contests, those persons need to remember that our Lord and his immediate followers all predicted exactly the opposite. Those who accept everything will not only be in the minority. They will be an intensely unpopular minority. We have to know that going in. If some receive the Gospel with joy, that is something to rejoice over. If some receive it with anger and rejection, though, that is also no surprise, and not a sign that the message isn’t still true. Not every message received badly is automatically the truth, but certainly that is the way the true message will often be received.
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BellsMom
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I believe in a creator / creative force in the universe. I don’t believe in a personal god as taught in the bible.
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BellsMom
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Yes I believe our understanding and application of morals is superior to ancient times.
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Irishgal49
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Yes I am sure that there are such people.
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Lochias
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Then by what authority do you claim any of what you say to be right? Why should we listen to what you have to say as right and proper? From what pedigree or tradition do your words spring?
What leg do your words have to stand on, besides “It’s just what I feel” or “because it’s right”?
Again, under what authority or logic? Indeed, we’re killing our children in the womb quicker than any ancient civilization ever did.
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Prodigal_Son
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Do you always attack people who disagree with your position? Do you think that this is a good way to go about evangelizing people?
Bell(name removed by moderator) is not arguing that we should reject a Christian God. She’s just stating her own beliefs honestly. Cut her a break.
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EasterJoy
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In all respects? Based on what evidence? How much do you know about the moral life of the ancients, that you have come to this conclusion?
History teaches that each era has exceeded others in some areas, but fell short in others. IMHO, it is arrogance to believe we are an exception to this rule, particularly when the contemporary prevalence of suffering caused by interpersonal conflict and self-absorption is taken into consideration. Among all societies in history, we are on the extreme with regards to the unwillingness of individuals to consider the common good when forming their moral code. I could go on, but suffice it to say that we aren’t better than our ancestors in how we conduct ourselves, and in many ways we are worse.
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Lochias
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Do you always view logical questions in a debate as an attack? That’s a little telling, to be honest.
It’s worked for me in the past, though that’s not my explicit goal here. I’m trying to get her to think about where her logic is coming from, which is namely nowhere logical.Do you think that this is a good way to go about evangelizing people?
I think you have a bigger problem with my questions than she does. Let’s talk about this: What’s made you jump into a question that wasn’t addressed to you with such vehemence?
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