Does anyone here, that believes in God, actually think that God accepts gay marriage?

[HandyAndy]

This is a quote from the writings of Catalina Riva’s. She suffers the stigmata and has received visions. She has written the words that Jesus has spoken to her. Her story can be found on the site mentioned earlier…“You Shall Believe”.
You are not alone in the many questions that you have CaliLobo, and unfortunately many will also not be able to see the forest for the trees. Find Christ in the writings of Catalina Rivas. You will know them as truth. Come to recognize who Christ truly is…and you will come to know who you are and who you were always meant to be.
Its funny how even in today’s world, you will find that the people who demand of others rarely get what they want…and a humble heart, “please” and “thank you”, still goes a long way.

Quote:-
When I returned to my seat and started to kneel down,
the Lord said: “
Listen…”
And a moment later, I began to
hear the prayers of the lady who was seated in front of me
and who had just received Communion.
74)
What she was saying without opening her mouth was
more or less like this: “Lord, remember that we are at the
end of the month and I do no
t have the money to pay the
rent, the car and the children’s school. You have to do
something to help me… Please, make my husband stop
drinking so much. I can no longer bear his drunken
episodes, and my youngest son is going to be held back
again this year if you do not help him. He has exams this
week. And do not forget that my neighbor must move to
another place. Have her do it at once because I cannot
stand her any more… etc., etc…
”
75)
Then, His Excellency said:
“Let us pray,”
and
obviously all the assembly stood
up for the final prayer.
Jesus said in a sad tone:
“Did you notice? Not once did
she tell Me that she loved Me. Not once did she give
thanks for My gift to her of bringing My Divinity
down to her poor humanity to elevate her toward
Me. Not a single time did she say: ‘Thank You Lord.’
It has been a litany of requests… and almost all of
those who come to receive Me are like that.
76)
“I have died for love and I am risen. For love I
await each one of you, and for love I remain with
you… But you do not realize that I need your love.
Remember that I am the Beggar of Love in this
sublime hour for the soul.”

Jesus promises much to those who visit frequently in Eucharistic Adoration.
Everything else, is simply a distraction.

 

[holyrood]

Jesus said in a sad tone:
“Did you notice? Not once did
she tell Me that she loved Me. Not once did she give
thanks for My gift to her of bringing My Divinity
down to her poor humanity to elevate her toward
Me. Not a single time did she say: ‘Thank You Lord.’
It has been a litany of requests… and almost all of
those who come to receive Me are like that.
76)
“I have died for love and I am risen. For love I
await each one of you, and for love I remain with
you… But you do not realize that I need your love.
Remember that I am the Beggar of Love in this
sublime hour for the soul.”

Jesus promises much to those who visit frequently in Eucharistic Adoration.
Everything else, is simply a distraction.

Thank you, HandyAndy. This is such a vital reminder. I have to admit, I was expecting something different from Jesus–a comment on her trust in Him, perhaps. But it is true that we all too easily forget all we have to be thankful for, even amidst the fears and problems, and we all too easily forget how incredible it is that Jesus would die for us, and what a great gift that is, beyond comprehension while we’re still on earth, really.

 

[josh987654321]

Not so fast, as there are so many thoughts racing through my mind. This is the PM I sent Rau, but I figure the two of you would benefit as well:

1. I have lost faith that I can find a woman who shares my values at church (see my other threads). I have lost faith that the church has answers when it comes to dating.

Why would the Church have answers for you when it comes to dating? you also say you want a woman who shares your values, but in 3) you say you wish to be liberal but having values and being liberal is a contradiction.

Have you ever heard the saying CaliLobo, what we fear we create?

I also know that if a woman went to Church for dating purposes, it would indicate to me a great deal her lack of integrity, the Church isn’t a dating site and I believe anyone who treats it that way has a severe lack of integrity.

1. I work in a leftist field and fear reprisal from my colleagues

"Matthew 16:24-27:

24 Then Jesus said to his disciples:

If any of you want to be my followers, you must forget about yourself. You must take up your cross and follow me. 25 If you want to save your life, you will destroy it. But if you give up your life for me, you will find it. 26 What will you gain, if you own the whole world but destroy yourself? What would you give to get back your soul?

27 The Son of Man will soon come in the glory of his Father and with his angels to reward all people for what they have done.

Luke 14:26-27:

26 You cannot be my disciple, unless you love me more than you love your father and mother, your wife and children, and your brothers and sisters. You cannot come with me unless you love me more than you love your own life.

27 You cannot be my disciple unless you carry your own cross and come with me.

Whoever betrays Christ finds a comfortable path, but one with thorns. Whoever follows Christ travels a path of hardships but one that is extremely beautiful. The path of the traitor is not beautiful, but only comfortable and the thorns that he encounters would serve to turn him back, but he makes use of them to make deeper slashes on his soul. On the other hand, the hardships on the path that must be traveled by the one who follows Christ, acquire with time a positive value and what seemed impossible before, becomes something easy for Christ’s follower.

1. I am in my 30s, and I feel like I need to be politically liberal, otherwise women won’t date me.

Like I said, you cannot be liberal and have any kind of integrity. Someone who values something (e.g. life) is not ‘liberal’ when it is abused or detroyed (e.g. abortion).

1. So many other people are agnostic and live just fine, how do they manage? Maybe I’m the crazy one.

You want to know why peoples sufferings all too often turn into desperation and even suicide? it’s because in those instances, it is a cross alone a cross without a Christ and we can only bear a cross with Christ on it’s arms.

Those who do not have resource to Christ will always find themselves in desperation and despair and in some cases even suicide, because it’s a cross alone and we can only bear a cross with Christ on it’s arms.

We are all on a one way ticket to the cross (e.g. Death) you can prepare for it, or you can take the indifferent approach and at the end realise the regret from the above Gospel quote “What will you gain, if you own the whole world but destroy yourself? What would you give to get back your soul?”

1. I still struggle with wanting to explore myself sexually before settling down, and regret not doing so in college (instead going to church and studying, but I never met a woman at church!)

“I tell you that you have less to suffer in following the cross than in serving the world and its pleasures.” - St. John Vianney

Like I said, the Church is not a dating site and anyone who treats it like that has no integrity.

Please continue to next post -

 

[josh987654321]

I fully admit that sex and marriage have a lot to do with 1-10. But I don’t care. This is what I’m going through. I want nothing more than to be married to a woman that I am excited about (see previous threads). That is honestly all I’m living for these days.

Kind of like the man who desires cake so much that he eats the whole thing and ends up making himself sick, he is full of regrets.

I would like to quote a bit of the book “The End of Reason” by Ravi Zacharias for you.

**Pleasure - Not Pain - Is the Death Knell of Meaning **

The famed twentieth century British journalist Malcolm Muggeridge once said that all news is old things happening to new people. From the naturalist Philosopher David Hume to the existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre, the list of grievances resulting from the problem of pain in the world has been stated over and over. I suggest they have missed the point.

Author and satirist G.K. Chesterton remarked that meaningless does not come from being weary of pain but from being weary of pleasure. Pleasure, not pain, is the death knell of meaning. This is the lonely planet problem of Sam Harris’s worldview - the belief that because each one of us is alone in the universe our personal joys and sorrows have no effect or impact on anyone else. In other words, it’s all about me. We have all come to know that our problem is not that pain has produced emptiness in our lives; the real problem is that even pleasure ultimately leaves us empty an unfulfilled. When the pleasure button is pressed incessantly, we are left feeling bewilderingly empty and betrayed.

When I read the biography of Oscar Wilde and researched the life of this quintessential hedonist, I was repeatedly surprised by the protracted passages of despair that came from the heart and the pen of a man so completely devoted to the pursuit of pleasure. Ponder the epitaph there that reads, *“And alien tears will fill for him pity’s long-broken urn, for this mourners will be outcast men, and outcasts always mourn.” *These speak of the silence of pain. If it were pain alone that brought emptiness, I would at least half grant the atheist’s point. But some of the lonliest people I have ever met or read about are those who have had everything and experienced little of what we usually consider pain; yet, they too have pain - pain resulting from having indulged and come away empty.

The greatest disappointment (and resulting pain) you can feel is when you have just experienced that which you thought would bring you the ultimate in pleasure - and it is has let you down. pleasure without boundaries produces a life without purpose. That is real pain. No death, no tradgedy, no atrocity - nothing really matters. Life is sheer hollowness, with no purpose.

Please continue to next post -

 

[josh987654321]

By the way, I thought I’d share a quote from Carrie Underwood, who is one of the few Christian mainstream celebrities and is very active in social justice and philanthropy:

As a married person myself, I don’t know what it’s like to be told I can’t marry somebody I love, and want to marry… I can’t imagine how that must feel. I definitely think we should all have the right to love, and love publicly, the people that we want to love… Our church is gay friendly. Above all, God wanted us to love others. It’s not about setting rules, or [saying] ‘everyone has to be like me’. No. We’re all different. That’s what makes us special. We have to love each other and get on with each other. It’s not up to me to judge anybody.
Source: articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/11/entertainment/la-et-mg-carrie-underwood-gay-marriage

I see alot of indifference in statements like these.

Our sexuality is sacred, we as Christians cannot advocate the sacredness of our sexuality and at the same time the desacralisation of our homosexual brothers and sisters sexuality.

I would just like to quote the small extract that HandyAndy did from the book “The Holy Mass”

This book contains the Roman Catholic IMPRIMATUR. (you can find it in the first pages of the linked book)
The Holy Mass:

When I returned to my seat and started to kneel down, the Lord said: **“Listen…” **And a moment later, I began to hear the prayers of the lady who was seated in front of me and who had just received Communion.

What she was saying without opening her mouth was more or less like this: “Lord, remember that we are at the end of the month and I do not have the money to pay the rent, the car and the children’s school. You have to do something to help me… Please, make my husband stop drinking so much. I can no longer bear his drunken episodes, and my youngest son is going to be held back again this year if you do not help him. He has exams this week. And do not forget that my neighbor must move to another place. Have her do it at once because I cannot stand her any more… etc., etc…”

Then, His Excellency said: “Let us pray,” and obviously all the assembly stood up for the final prayer.

Jesus said in a sad tone: **“Did you notice? Not once did she tell Me that she loved Me. Not once did she give thanks for My gift to her of bringing My Divinity down to her poor humanity to elevate her toward Me. Not a single time did she say: ‘Thank You Lord.’ It has been a litany of requests… and almost all of those who come to receive Me are like that.

“I have died for love and I am risen. For love I await each one of you, and for love I remain with you… But you do not realize that I need your love. Remember that I am the Beggar of Love in this sublime hour for the soul.”**

And another small extract from the book “The Passion.”

This book contains the Roman Catholic IMPRIMATUR (you can find it in the first pages of the linked book)
The Passion:

Jesus says **For love of souls, I remain a prisoner in the Holy Eucharist, so that in their sorrow and grief they are being consoled by the most tender of Hearts, by the best of Fathers, by the most loyal friend. But that Love, which is consumed for the good of mankind, is not going to be returned.

I live amongst sinners to be their salvation and their life, their doctor and medicine; yet they, in return, in spite of their sick nature, distance themselves from Me. They offend Me and scorn Me.

My children, poor sinners! Do not distance yourselves from Me. I wait for you night and day at the Tabernacle. I will not reproach you for your crimes; I will not throw your sins in your face. What I will do is to wash you with the Blood of My wounds. Do not be afraid; come to Me. You do not know how much I love you.

…Come to He who can restore strength and health of the soul. Give alms of love to this Divine Beggar, who calls you, wants you, and waits for you.

These words will produce the effect of a great truth in souls. They will penetrate families, schools, religious congregations, hospitals, prisons, and many souls will surrender to My Love.**

For more information on these extracts please go here - youshallbelieve.com/A-plea-to-humanity.pdf and youshallbelieve.com/

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[holyrood]

Kind of like the man who desires cake so much that he eats the whole thing and ends up making himself sick, he is full of regrets.

I would like to quote a bit of the book “The End of Reason” by Ravi Zacharias for you.

**Pleasure - Not Pain - Is the Death Knell of Meaning **

The famed twentieth century British journalist Malcolm Muggeridge once said that all news is old things happening to new people. From the naturalist Philosopher David Hume to the existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre, the list of grievances resulting from the problem of pain in the world has been stated over and over. I suggest they have missed the point.

Author and satirist G.K. Chesterton remarked that meaningless does not come from being weary of pain but from being weary of pleasure. Pleasure, not pain, is the death knell of meaning. This is the lonely planet problem of Sam Harris’s worldview - the belief that because each one of us is alone in the universe our personal joys and sorrows have no effect or impact on anyone else. In other words, it’s all about me. We have all come to know that our problem is not that pain has produced emptiness in our lives; the real problem is that even pleasure ultimately leaves us empty an unfulfilled. When the pleasure button is pressed incessantly, we are left feeling bewilderingly empty and betrayed.

When I read the biography of Oscar Wilde and researched the life of this quintessential hedonist, I was repeatedly surprised by the protracted passages of despair that came from the heart and the pen of a man so completely devoted to the pursuit of pleasure. Ponder the epitaph there that reads, *“And alien tears will fill for him pity’s long-broken urn, for this mourners will be outcast men, and outcasts always mourn.” *These speak of the silence of pain. If it were pain alone that brought emptiness, I would at least half grant the atheist’s point. But some of the lonliest people I have ever met or read about are those who have had everything and experienced little of what we usually consider pain; yet, they too have pain - pain resulting from having indulged and come away empty.

The greatest disappointment (and resulting pain) you can feel is when you have just experienced that which you thought would bring you the ultimate in pleasure - and it is has let you down. pleasure without boundaries produces a life without purpose. That is real pain. No death, no tradgedy, no atrocity - nothing really matters. Life is sheer hollowness, with no purpose.

Please continue to next post -

Powerful words! Thanks for posting.

I think it sums up an awful lot of what’s wrong in our world, today. The constant pursuit of pleasure as our only god.

I suspect many people thought that once they had what they desired they’d be happy. When it didn’t work, they thought maybe if they could have it openly, then they’d b happy. Then they thought if only their families would accept it, they’d be happy. They still weren’t. So maybe if all society widely accepted and regarded the action as healthy and normal. It’s still not bringing happiness, so now let’s try to make society approve.

But ultimately, there’s that ‘God-shaped hole’ in our heart, and we, every single one of us, will be restless until we let God fill it.

 

[josh987654321]

Powerful words! Thanks for posting.

I think it sums up an awful lot of what’s wrong in our world, today. The constant pursuit of pleasure as our only god.

I suspect many people thought that once they had what they desired they’d be happy. When it didn’t work, they thought maybe if they could have it openly, then they’d b happy. Then they thought if only their families would accept it, they’d be happy. They still weren’t. So maybe if all society widely accepted and regarded the action as healthy and normal. It’s still not bringing happiness, so now let’s try to make society approve.

But ultimately, there’s that ‘God-shaped hole’ in our heart, and we, every single one of us, will be restless until we let God fill it.

Well said, people are worshipping so many different things (whether it be money or physical pleasures) to try and fill that void that only God can fill.

4 Jesus answered, “The Scriptures say: ‘No one can live only on food. People need every word that God has spoken.’” Matthew 4:4

Thank you Holyrood.

 

[CaliLobo]

Why would the Church have answers for you when it comes to dating? you also say you want a woman who shares your values, but in 3) you say you wish to be liberal but having values and being liberal is a contradiction.

Why is having values and being liberal a contradiction? Is it not possible to be liberal and have values? Do you think I, and the majority that support gay rights, lack values? Why are there Christians active in “social justice ministries”?

I have to be liberal. If I am not, it will be a dealbreaker for the women I meet. It will lead to persecution at work and loss of work.

I don’t want to suffer anymore.

Have you ever heard the saying CaliLobo, what we fear we create?

No, explain?

I also know that if a woman went to Church for dating purposes, it would indicate to me a great deal her lack of integrity, the Church isn’t a dating site and I believe anyone who treats it that way has a severe lack of integrity.

“Integrity” is one of the most misused words. What do you mean by it? “Integrity” simply means that you are who you say you are.

Like I said, you cannot be liberal and have any kind of integrity. Someone who values something (e.g. life) is not ‘liberal’ when it is abused or detroyed (e.g. abortion).

I support abortion rights politically because of my love and compassion for women.

You want to know why peoples sufferings all too often turn into desperation and even suicide? it’s because in those instances, it is a cross alone a cross without a Christ and we can only bear a cross with Christ on it’s arms.

Those who do not have resource to Christ will always find themselves in desperation and despair and in some cases even suicide, because it’s a cross alone and we can only bear a cross with Christ on it’s arms.

We are all on a one way ticket to the cross (e.g. Death) you can prepare for it, or you can take the indifferent approach and at the end realise the regret from the above Gospel quote “What will you gain, if you own the whole world but destroy yourself? What would you give to get back your soul?”

“I tell you that you have less to suffer in following the cross than in serving the world and its pleasures.” - St. John Vianney

Like I said, the Church is not a dating site and anyone who treats it like that has no integrity.

Whoever betrays Christ finds a comfortable path, but one with thorns. Whoever follows Christ travels a path of hardships but one that is extremely beautiful. The path of the traitor is not beautiful, but only comfortable and the thorns that he encounters would serve to turn him back, but he makes use of them to make deeper slashes on his soul. On the other hand, the hardships on the path that must be traveled by the one who follows Christ, acquire with time a positive value and what seemed impossible before, becomes something easy for Christ’s follower.

I feel that I’ve been faithful for so long, and I see that all I’ve done is suffer. I feel God has shortchanged me. I don’t want to suffer anymore. I want more freedom and pleasure. I want to be happy. I want to love and be loved. I want to enjoy my life.

Not everyone who turns away from Christ feels desperation, depression, and suicide. Some are happier for it.

Some people are very capable of managing their “crosses” without Christ. Some people are happy without Christ. I want the secret to their happiness. Is that so wrong?

God knows very well I am lonely. God created me with strong sexual feelings. Is it wrong for me to say that I want sexual freedom? Is it wrong for me to say I want to date women and meet my future wife? Why doesn’t God provide, if we declare he is so loving and caring, like a real father should be? (See my other thread)

I’ve gone so long single, that dating, marriage, and sex is pretty much what I’m living for. And yet here I am in a place where single women are few and far between, and the only dating available for me is long-distance women that my family sets me up with. Is this all that’s left? Has it all come down to this?

And to tie it back to the original topic, this is another reason why I would never vote to deny marriage rights to anyone. How could I do so, when I’m single myself?

 

[holyrood]

I have to be liberal. If I am not, it will be a dealbreaker for the women I meet. It will lead to persecution at work and loss of work.

Women are roughly equally divided between liberal and conservative, just like the rest of the country. Why are you only meeting liberal women? And if you’re ‘being liberal’ only to appeal to them, don’t you think that insincerity is going to shine through?

I support abortion rights politically because of my love and compassion for women.

If you sincerely love and have compassion for women, please read Every Woman Has a Right to Know the Dangers of Legal Abortion by Anne Saltzberger(?) and Aborted Women: Silent No More by David Reardon. Both are packed full of excellent research and anecdotal evidence about the harm abortion is doing to women. I personally know plenty of women who felt pushed into abortion (hey, it’s legal now, why inflict this burden on everyone?), and women who have been devastated by having one and vowed never, ever to do it again.

What about unborn girls? Do you have love and compassion for them?

I really take offense at the notion that anyone who ‘loves women’ must necessarily support abortion. I think abortion is a cruel and callous thing that has been inflicted on women, not to mention what it does to unborn children.

I feel that I’ve been faithful for so long, and I see that all I’ve done is suffer. I feel God has shortchanged me. I don’t want to suffer anymore. I want more freedom and pleasure. I want to be happy. I want to love and be loved. I want to enjoy my life.

Not everyone who turns away from Christ feels desperation, depression, and suicide. Some are happier for it.

Some people are very capable of managing their “crosses” without Christ. Some people are happy without Christ. I want the secret to their happiness. Is that so wrong?

I suspect many saints have suffered long, too. Having spent the last ten years dealing with an alcoholic family of origin, a cheating husband, divorce, twins with ADHD and autism, and a family that sits in judgment on my parenting skills as a result (because they know better than the doctor ) believe me, I can appreciate how you’re feeling. Toss in that I’ve been faithful for the last 25 years, saying Rosaries nearly daily for over a decade, years of Perpetual Adoration, giving time, treasure, and talent to the church, and raising my children in the faith–I’m right there with you. I don’t want to suffer any more.

But what I always come back to is the verse where someone turns away from Jesus because his teachings are too hard. He turns to his disciples and asks, “Will you also leave me?” They ask him, “Where else would we go?”

It does seem that some people turn their backs on God and live wonderful, happy lives, but you have to consider two things. First, I seriously doubt they’re happy. I have a friend who with his wife has been living the most hedonistic life you can imagine. I’ve had enough deep talks with this person that I don’t for a second believe they’re as happy as they claim. I see them both, in their own way, constantly striving for something that’s clearly missing. (See the previous post about a life of pleasure ultimately being meaningless). And even if they really are happy here and now, a life of sheer hedonism is not going to bring them eternal glory. Is it really a good trade, a moment’s happiness here on Earth for eternal regret and separation from God?

God knows very well I am lonely. God created me with strong sexual feelings. Is it wrong for me to say that I want sexual freedom? Is it wrong for me to say I want to date women and meet my future wife? Why doesn’t God provide, if we declare he is so loving and caring, like a real father should be? (See my other thread)

I’ve gone so long single, that dating, marriage, and sex is pretty much what I’m living for. And yet here I am in a place where single women are few and far between, and the only dating available for me is long-distance women that my family sets me up with. Is this all that’s left? Has it all come down to this?

And to tie it back to the original topic, this is another reason why I would never vote to deny marriage rights to anyone. How could I do so, when I’m single myself?

Philosophers and theologians have wrestled for centuries with the Problem of Pain. But I think they’re unanimously agreed that seeking license and unrestricted pleasure is not going to solve that or bring anyone real happiness.

 

[EasterJoy]

I support abortion rights politically because of my love and compassion for women…

Who else do women who merit your compassion have a license to kill, if having that person in their life makes it too hard? You don’t sound like you love women to me. You sound as if you have contempt for them, because you think they cannot both do the right thing and yet have a happy life. Even atheists want a virtuous life for those they love.

God knows very well I am lonely. God created me with strong sexual feelings. Is it wrong for me to say that I want sexual freedom? Is it wrong for me to say I want to date women and meet my future wife? Why doesn’t God provide, if we declare he is so loving and caring, like a real father should be? (See my other thread)

I’ve gone so long single, that dating, marriage, and sex is pretty much what I’m living for. And yet here I am in a place where single women are few and far between, and the only dating available for me is long-distance women that my family sets me up with. Is this all that’s left? Has it all come down to this?

And to tie it back to the original topic, this is another reason why I would never vote to deny marriage rights to anyone. How could I do so, when I’m single myself?

You write as if sex is what you’re living for, period, and for your own sake only. Actually, from your cumulative posts, it sounds as if you’d even sell your own soul down the river, if there was sex in it for you.

I would not bet that becoming a “liberal” is going to cause the women to beat a path to your door. You are not looking for a woman to give love to, but rather looking for an object to relieve you of your sexual frustrations. What woman wants that in her husband? For her sake if nothing else, I hope you do not find that wife you want until you have a change of heart. Better that you make yourself miserable by the mindset you have chosen than that you inflict it on someone else.

After all, what kind of husband are you going to make, if you don’t want to commit to one woman for life, but want to reserve the right to divorce her? What kind of husband, if you think that you will regret having saved yourself for her alone? What kind of husband, if your response to the case where she is incapable of fulfilling her marital duty to you through no fault of her own will be “God knows very well I am lonely. God created me with strong sexual feelings. Is it wrong for me to say that I want sexual freedom?” If you are willing to do what you want instead of staying faithful to God, what are the chances that you will deny yourself in order to be faithful to a mere mortal woman, a woman who can’t be everything you can imagine you want? And you say you have love and compassion for woman. Right. You have an infatuation with the idea that license gives happiness. Give yourself to that deception, and you guarantee yourself a life of misery.

 

[Rau]

Why is having values and being liberal a contradiction? Is it not possible to be liberal and have values? Do you think I, and the majority that support gay rights, lack values? Why are there Christians active in “social justice ministries”?

The word “liberal” is not well defined. Further, accepting that ones position on various subjects might fall into a liberal or conservative region, why does one need to be liberal on all subjects? Aren’t we each entitled to form our views case by case? By the way, I support gay rights too. They are the very same rights each human being deserves.

 

[josh987654321]

No, explain?

It is an old philosphy that is very accurate, “What we fear we create” for example, a country fears being attacked, so what do they do? they make a preemptive strike which in istelf has just ceated the war that they feared and tried to prevent.

I support abortion rights politically because of my love and compassion for women.

To help women kill their children is not motivated out of love, but rather convenience, or the love of self.

Please read my post #18

It’s not much of a leap for those who can reationalise murder inside of the womb to rationalise it outside of the womb. holyrood also has a good response regarding abortion, if it’s so right, than why do the women who have abortions end up so wrong?

I feel that I’ve been faithful for so long, and I see that all I’ve done … single myself?

Extract from the book “The Holy Mass” (This contains the Roman Catholic IMPRIMATUR. you can find it in the first pages of the linked book)
The Holy Mass:

*When I returned to my seat and started to kneel down, the Lord said: ***“Listen…” ***And a moment later, I began to hear the prayers of the lady who was seated in front of me and who had just received Communion.

What she was saying without opening her mouth was more or less like this: “Lord, remember that we are at the end of the month and I do not have the money to pay the rent, the car and the children’s school. You have to do something to help me… Please, make my husband stop drinking so much. I can no longer bear his drunken episodes, and my youngest son is going to be held back again this year if you do not help him. He has exams this week. And do not forget that my neighbor must move to another place. Have her do it at once because I cannot stand her any more… etc., etc…”

Then, His Excellency said: “Let us pray,” and obviously all the assembly stood up for the final prayer.

Jesus said in a sad tone: *“**Did you notice? Not once did she tell Me that she loved Me. Not once did she give thanks for My gift to her of bringing My Divinity down to her poor humanity to elevate her toward Me. Not a single time did she say: ‘Thank You Lord.’ It has been a litany of requests… and almost all of those who come to receive Me are like that.

“I have died for love and I am risen. For love I await each one of you, and for love I remain with you… But you do not realize that I need your love. Remember that I am the Beggar of Love in this sublime hour for the soul.”**

Extract from the book “The Passion” (This contains the Roman Catholic IMPRIMATUR. you can find it in the first pages of the linked book)
The Passion:

*Jesus says ***For love of souls, I remain a prisoner in the Holy Eucharist, so that in their sorrow and grief they are being consoled by the most tender of Hearts, by the best of Fathers, by the most loyal friend. But that Love, which is consumed for the good of mankind, is not going to be returned.

I live amongst sinners to be their salvation and their life, their doctor and medicine; yet they, in return, in spite of their sick nature, distance themselves from Me. They offend Me and scorn Me.

My children, poor sinners! Do not distance yourselves from Me. I wait for you night and day at the Tabernacle. I will not reproach you for your crimes; I will not throw your sins in your face. What I will do is to wash you with the Blood of My wounds. Do not be afraid; come to Me. You do not know how much I love you.

…Come to He who can restore strength and health of the soul. Give alms of love to this Divine Beggar, who calls you, wants you, and waits for you.

These words will produce the effect of a great truth in souls. They will penetrate families, schools, religious congregations, hospitals, prisons, and many souls will surrender to My Love.**

For more information on these extracts please go here - youshallbelieve.com/A-plea-to-humanity.pdf and youshallbelieve.com/

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[PRmerger]

What kind of husband, if your response to the case where she is incapable of fulfilling her marital duty to you through no fault of her own will be “God knows very well I am lonely. God created me with strong sexual feelings. Is it wrong for me to say that I want sexual freedom?”

Indeed.

And I would add: how faithful of a husband would you be, given the above paradigm? Your demand for sexual license excludes any kind of monogamy. If you have strong sexual feelings for a co-worker, why should marriage be an impediment to fulfilling this intense sexual urge you may feel, Cali?

If you are willing to do what you want instead of staying faithful to God, what are the chances that you will deny yourself in order to be faithful to a mere mortal woman, a woman who can’t be everything you can imagine you want?

No human person can fulfill what the human heart desires. Only God can do that.

You have an infatuation with the idea that license gives happiness. Give yourself to that deception, and you guarantee yourself a life of misery.

Yup.

It’s quite clear that license to do whatever one wants, and acting upon this desire, only leads to chaos, confusion and misery.

To wit:

http://www.metro.us/wp-content/uplo...ine-2013-1380026837-view-0-e1380483634766.jpg

 

[NoroLim]

NO WAY!!!

 

[PeopleB4Things]

We notice variation within species all the time. These include hair, eye, skin color, height, temperament, intelligence, etc. We know that some of these factors are influenced by our environment. For example, if we do not get enough nutrition as children, we might not reach our height or intelligence potential. But we as Catholics, also accept the role genetics play in individuals and species. Scientists have found evidence of homosexuality in all two sex species where they’ve looked. So we know that homosexuality is a common variation found in nature. Many scientists have posited opinions on how the positive effects of homosexuality have assisted in the propagation of the behavior. So if you accept the idea of genetics and evolution & accept that homosexuality is a biological variation, there is no problem. Since 40% of Americans do not believe in concept of evolution at all or in part, there is a significant segment of the population who will think homosexuality is a choice.

Also, we Catholics are not biblical literalists. We don’t follow the letter of every passage found in the bible. Many before me have pointed out that the bible allows us to condemn and even murder people that we as Catholics would never consider doing today. The Catholic Church has interpreted the bible & doctrine in the past to support slavery, rape and murder. But we’ve since changed our evil ways and have done 180s on these positions. I think in time the Church will accept homosexuality and reframe its position of acceptance to align with Church doctrine.

I have a niece who is 17 years old. She’s indicated that she feels she is a male who likes men. Her testosterone levels are high for a teenage girl and she has facial hair similar to a teenage male. My niece is okay with the way she is. There is nothing medically wrong with her according to her doctors. I’m sure her parents could try pumping her full of hormones trying to override her natural levels, but they’ve chosen to accept her the way God made her. She’s changed her name and is moving forward with her life with the support of those who love her. I agree with her decision. She’s not a mistake. She’s a child of God. Anyone attempting to judge her behavior as wrong can take up God’s mistake with him directly. But they need to leave her out of it.

 

[EasterJoy]

We notice variation within species all the time. These include hair, eye, skin color, height, temperament, intelligence, etc. We know that some of these factors are influenced by our environment. For example, if we do not get enough nutrition as children, we might not reach our height or intelligence potential. But we as Catholics, also accept the role genetics play in individuals and species. Scientists have found evidence of homosexuality in all two sex species where they’ve looked. So we know that homosexuality is a common variation found in nature. Many scientists have posited opinions on how the positive effects of homosexuality have assisted in the propagation of the behavior. So if you accept the idea of genetics and evolution & accept that homosexuality is a biological variation, there is no problem. Since 40% of Americans do not believe in concept of evolution at all or in part, there is a significant segment of the population who will think homosexuality is a choice.

Also, we Catholics are not biblical literalists. We don’t follow the letter of every passage found in the bible. Many before me have pointed out that the bible allows us to condemn and even murder people that we as Catholics would never consider doing today. The Catholic Church has interpreted the bible in the past to support slavery, rape and murder. But we’ve since changed our evil ways and have done 180s on these positions. I think in time the Church will accept homosexuality and reframe its position of acceptance to align with Church doctrine.

I have a niece who is 17 years old. She’s indicated that she feels she is a male who likes men. Her testosterone levels are high for a teenage girl and she has facial hair similar to a teenage male. My niece is okay with the way she is. There is nothing medically wrong with her according to her doctors. I’m sure her parents could try pumping her full of hormones trying to override her natural levels, but they’ve chosen to accept her the way God made her. She’s changed her name and is moving forward with her life with the support of those who love her. I agree with her decision. She’s not a mistake. She’s a child of God. Anyone attempting to judge her behavior as wrong can take up God’s mistake with him directly. But they need to leave her out of it.

a) Your niece is not a mistake, but she is also not a man. She is a young woman with hair in places that young women don’t usually grow hair, and possibly a young woman whose brain has some structural similarities to that of a typical male. If her feeling was that she was actually the Queen of England and you decided not to quarrel with her about it, that would be one thing. It would be quite another to conclude that her strong and unswerving feeling means that her feelings about her identity trump the physical facts, and this would be true no matter how much she looked like Elizabeth II.

b) There is strong evidence that there are genes predisposing towards alcoholism, but that doesn’t mean that alcoholism is a morally neutral way of being. If someone is born a sociopath or psychopath, do they have carte blanche? It is also to be found in nature that some mothers will eat their young when under stress, but that does not mean that we ought to all get behind infanticide as a “natural” way to deal with postpartum stress, let alone infantophagia. IOW, if indulging behaviors commonly found in human nature becomes a moral code, one certainly couldn’t fault the code for difficulty, but there isn’t much else to be said for it. Why wouldn’t rape and murder be allowed? People have been doing it for centuries! Ritual cannibalism? Why not? If the behavior of non-human animals becomes the norm on top of that, I’m not sure what a human couldn’t find an excuse to do.

c) That leads naturally to this question: You don’t follow the letter of every passage of the Bible; OK. What *do *you hold as the authority that binds a Catholic in term of faith and morals? How is a Catholic to know what moral law requires, what is forbidden and what is allowed? Do your really think “live, let live, and keep your mouth shut if you don’t like my morals” is a tenable moral code on which to found a society? Why do you think you’ll follow what the Church is going to declare some day, if you don’t feel bound to follow what the Church teaches right now? What is the Bible to you, for that matter?

I ask this honestly: What binds a person with regards to moral law to do what they don’t feel inclined to do?

 

[Rau]

We notice variation within species all the time. These include hair, eye, skin color, height, temperament, intelligence, etc. We know that some of these factors are influenced by our environment. For example, if we do not get enough nutrition as children, we might not reach our height or intelligence potential. But we as Catholics, also accept the role genetics play in individuals and species. Scientists have found evidence of homosexuality in all two sex species where they’ve looked. So we know that homosexuality is a common variation found in nature. Many scientists have posited opinions on how the positive effects of homosexuality have assisted in the propagation of the behavior. So if you accept the idea of genetics and evolution & accept that homosexuality is a biological variation, there is no problem. Since 40% of Americans do not believe in concept of evolution at all or in part, there is a significant segment of the population who will think homosexuality is a choice.

Also, we Catholics are not biblical literalists. We don’t follow the letter of every passage found in the bible. Many before me have pointed out that the bible allows us to condemn and even murder people that we as Catholics would never consider doing today. The Catholic Church has interpreted the bible & doctrine in the past to support slavery, rape and murder. But we’ve since changed our evil ways and have done 180s on these positions. I think in time the Church will accept homosexuality and reframe its position of acceptance to align with Church doctrine.

I have a niece who is 17 years old. She’s indicated that she feels she is a male who likes men. Her testosterone levels are high for a teenage girl and she has facial hair similar to a teenage male. My niece is okay with the way she is. There is nothing medically wrong with her according to her doctors. I’m sure her parents could try pumping her full of hormones trying to override her natural levels, but they’ve chosen to accept her the way God made her. She’s changed her name and is moving forward with her life with the support of those who love her. I agree with her decision. She’s not a mistake. She’s a child of God. Anyone attempting to judge her behavior as wrong can take up God’s mistake with him directly. But they need to leave her out of it.

The church accepts homosexuals. It does not blame them for their inclinations, or label their inclinations a choice. The church rejects homosexual relations - that is all. If you wish to make an argument in favour of, say, 2 men lying together, and ejaculating together, go ahead. If you believe the Church will change its doctrine so as to be ok with 2 men engaging in these acts, I’d be interested to know why this topic would be the very first about which the Church would change doctrine.

I wish your niece well. We know God allows all manner of biological variation. He doesn’t make mistakes.

 

[Thomas_Peter]

but ours is just one holy book of many, I am sure even amongst followers of our book there are those who interpret the levitical codes against homosexuality on the same level as the prscriptions against ingesting shellfish

Jewish dietary laws in the OT? C’mon man! As a Catholic you should know this since its used to attack our faith by those supportive of SSM.

 

[PeopleB4Things]

a) Your niece is not a mistake, but she is also not a man. She is a young woman with hair in places that young women don’t usually grow hair, and possibly a young woman whose brain has some structural similarities to that of a typical male. If her feeling was that she was actually the Queen of England and you decided not to quarrel with her about it, that would be one thing. It would be quite another to conclude that her strong and unswerving feeling means that her feelings about her identity trump the physical facts, and this would be true no matter how much she looked like Elizabeth II.

b) There is strong evidence that there are genes predisposing towards alcoholism, but that doesn’t mean that alcoholism is a morally neutral way of being. If someone is born a sociopath or psychopath, do they have carte blanche? It is also to be found in nature that some mothers will eat their young when under stress, but that does not mean that we ought to all get behind infanticide as a “natural” way to deal with postpartum stress, let alone infantophagia. IOW, if indulging behaviors commonly found in human nature becomes a moral code, one certainly couldn’t fault the code for difficulty, but there isn’t much else to be said for it. Why wouldn’t rape and murder be allowed? People have been doing it for centuries! Ritual cannibalism? Why not? If the behavior of non-human animals becomes the norm on top of that, I’m not sure what a human couldn’t find an excuse to do.

c) That leads naturally to this question: You don’t follow the letter of every passage of the Bible; OK. What *do *you hold as the authority that binds a Catholic in term of faith and morals? How is a Catholic to know what moral law requires, what is forbidden and what is allowed? Do your really think “live, let live, and keep your mouth shut if you don’t like my morals” is a tenable moral code on which to found a society? Why do you think you’ll follow what the Church is going to declare some day, if you don’t feel bound to follow what the Church teaches right now? What is the Bible to you, for that matter?

I ask this honestly: What binds a person with regards to moral law to do what they don’t feel inclined to do?

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. I don’t agree with you, but thanks just the same.

 

[PRmerger]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. I don’t agree with you, but thanks just the same.

Is there something specific which you can identify as wrong in the response given?

As this is a discussion forum, the culture is one of dialogue. One person presents an argument. Another refutes. Another counters. And so it goes.