Does anything render Dec. 25th impossible?

[MyPhilomena]

Here are some highlights from Jason Evert’s book: “Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses”

chapter 14" What about military service, blood transfusions, and holidays?"

Page 145 under the paragraph titled “Christmas”

Is Christmas a pagan celebration merely because it is celebrated at the same time of the year as ancient pagan feasts honoring a sun god? If so, then one could just as easily argue that the Watchtower Theocratic Ministry School and Service Meetings are of pagan origin, since they are often held on Thursday - the day of the week named after the pagan diety Thor. Such a conclusion, obviously, would be silly.

While one frequently encounters assertions that Christmas was timed to coincide with the celebration Sol Invictus, these never seem to be backed up by evidence. In particular, they are never backed up by quotations from early Christians saying, We decided to time this celebration to coincide with *Sol Invictus
*, and this is why…" If the early Church had deliberately decided to time the celebrations to coincide, this ought to be reflected in its writings, but it isn’t. Witnesses never produce quotes from early Christians saying that Christmas was timed to coincide with a pagan festival.That is sheer speculation.

Just because the celebration of Christmas is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, one cannot assume that it is prohibited. If anything, the reverse is the case - all things are lawful for us, as Paul says in Corinthians 6:12, as long as they are not prohibited.

Like Passover, and the feast of Purim, Christmas is a celebration that commemorates God’s victory over sin, when he delivered man from the bondage of the evil one. Easter is the commemoration of his victory over death. Surely such occasions are worthy of celebration!

 

[YADA]

December 25th was not selected because it was the ‘actual date’ that Jesus was born and any discussion around Christmas that deals with “was Jesus born on December 25 or October XX or April XX” misses the point of the celebration.

We celebrate the coming of our Savior “in the Flesh” to walk in this world as a human being. God made Man. We ponder His first coming [the infancy story] while we wait and prepare ***ourselves ***for the His return. In fact the peneitential nature of the advent season and early christian tradition is focused upon our preparation for the Jesus’ return. The focus on the infant Jesus was rather late 1000 plus AD and popularized by St. Francis who thought that we shoulld ponder that initial mystery in greater depth as a whay of preparing for the deeper mystery that the death and resurrection of Jesus brought [in the way of salvation and eternal life] to the world.

Its a day that was chosen to celebrate the Light of the World during a time of winter and darkness because all cultures typically held celebrations of hope at this time of year. Christians are not any different and what better way to encourage right [correct] understandings about the meaning of life and our relation to our Creator than to place our celebrations and understanding against theirs. The Church leadership decided December 25th.

Jesus was born [Amen] it matters not what day [Hallelujah].

 

[catsrus]

Of course it’s possible but not proveable.
Who cares about an exact date anyway?
The event we are celebrating is what’s important, not what day in our man made time anything happened.
jws are known to strain at the gnat…

 

[Scottgun]

The date is not the most important thing as I have implied, but it does not follow that it is not important at all. It is both a salutary, beautiful and reasonable belief, and therefore it should be retained. If a non-believer considering conversion is scandalized by it, we should not press the issue and stick to the central core teachings, but I don’t see this happening often. I look forward to this Christmas and will retain my perfectly acceptable belief that this is the real date.

 

[buffalo]

I wonder if anyone asked Mary?

 

[jmcrae]

I wonder if anyone asked Mary?

I’m sure they must have - or else maybe she told them without being asked - it was a pretty important thing to have happen to her, and I doubt she ever committed the sin of false modesty or shyness. The traditional date of the Annunciation is March 25.

I remember a priest telling us in a homily one time that in the Early Church, the date of Christ’s conception was a lot more important to them than the date of His birth, since they correctly understood that the Incarnation occurred at His conception; not at His birth. Birthdays in general were not celebrated, in those days, so it would not have seemed important to them to have celebrated His birth, at first, I suppose.

It was only later that Christmas began to be celebrated, too - nine months later.

 

[rtconstant]

I wouldn’t say that it impossible. The date is a good one because for the Hebrew Christians at the time it often coincided with the festival of lights. I’m sure you can see the sybolism. As to the pagan influence some people get confused because they think that it was supposed to be replacing the northern european pagan tradition of Yule but that is not accurate. The 25th in pagan Rome coincided with Saturnalia which was a horrid and dangerous holiday.

So I think that the choice of the date was an inspired one as it continued a Godly tradition (festival of lights) while subverting an immoral pagan holiday. So I think that you can continue to hold to the idea that the date is God inspired as its installment both upheld standing tradition and alleviated a generally riotous time. When you add to this the seasonal symbolism it just gets better.

When you look at the Christian calendar and the liturgy it’s obvious that God trys to helps us by giving us many avenues by which to understand his message and his kingdom. In Christmas the season tells us that the time of death is on the decline and that a new life is approaching. The old Jewish traditions steeped in the history of God’s interaction in man are finding fulfillment in the Christ Child who is the Light of the World. Finally the old pagan ways are shown to be vulgar and where it inspired depravity and violence the birth of Our Lord brings Peace and Joy.

So in its own way the date of Dec. 25 tells a great deal about Our Lord!

 

[steveandersen]

Shepherds in the field would not disallow it. Winter is the green season there, the season for grazing. Summer is too hot and dry and grazing is difficult.

You beat me to it
I may be a city boy but yes, it seems perfectly normal to go out to the pastures during the wet season

As for the census being called in December; I don’t see that as a problem. First off the census was probably conducted over a multi-month period (maybe multi-year between when the order was given and the numbers were presented to Caesar). William the Conqueror’s famous Doomsday book (which while more than just a census covered a much smaller area) took a year to complete. Even today it takes several months to get even the preliminary numbers from the US census. Imagine what a census was like in a multi-ethic empire where information traveled as fast as sailing ship or horse.

Besides, if you’re going to disrupt peoples lives it makes sense to do it after the harvest season.

As for the pagan traditions

Nothing wrong with co-opting the other guys holiday and making it yours.

 

[LilyM]

Of course the feast of the Annunciation is March 25 - they simply worked backwards from Christmas. Same with the Feast of St John the Baptist. He was 6 months older than Christ according to Luke, Christ’s birthday falls on winter solstice so of course St John’s is summer solstice (kinda neat when you think about it).

But even IF December 25 is a pagan festival - well, it WAS a Roman festival, and you can imagine the Romans setting the final date for completion of the census just before an important holiday.

And remember Joseph and Mary did turn up towards the end of the census period, which is why the inns of Bethlehem were full.