Does Bush Invoke God

[LtTony]

…too much in his speeches?
I ask because I’m having an internet discussion with a Muslim that Bush uses Scripture and his faith to validate his policies, and to justify the “rape and murder of 100,000 Iraqis.”
Me? I’m a middle-of-the-road Dem who is no friend of GW, fundie rightists or the left. I respect their opinions, however. Each has some truth in their positions.
But this muslim and I just see the world so differently. He thinks we are Christian terrorists. I see him as an apologist and enabler of radical Islamic violence. I see Bush’s vague religious references as no difference from any other Western politician.
What are you’re thoughts?

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

LtTony:

…too much in his speeches?
I ask because I’m having an internet discussion with a Muslim that Bush uses Scripture and his faith to validate his policies, and to justify the “rape and murder of 100,000 Iraqis.”
Me? I’m a middle-of-the-road Dem who is no friend of GW, fundie rightists or the left. I respect their opinions, however. Each has some truth in their positions.
But this muslim and I just see the world so differently. He thinks we are Christian terrorists. I see him as an apologist and enabler of radical Islamic violence. I see Bush’s vague religious references as no difference from any other Western politician.
What are you’re thoughts?

Bush is a religious man… but you need to see the context of his speeches in order to see that he does not believe he is “acting in God’s name or as God’s representative”. Ask him how many so-called Islamic Republics and Muslim nations do this compared to the American president to the extent of battering women and not letting them drive or own property or have any rights or say-so at all.

 

[Scott_Waddell]

LtTony:

He thinks we are Christian terrorists.

Fortunately, we have reality on our side. The U.S. is wholly accountable for its conduct in the war. Everyone knows where we live so to speak. If other countries don’t like how the US does things, they can boycott, sever diplomatic ties and even declare war. Not so with terrorists. They skulk in the shadows, crawl out from under rocks, kill civilians, and skulk back. No one can petition for redress of grievences with terrorists. There is not one scintilla of moral equivalence here.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

LtTony:

…too much in his speeches?
I ask because I’m having an internet discussion with a Muslim that Bush uses Scripture and his faith to validate his policies, and to justify the “rape and murder of 100,000 Iraqis.”

Justifying the rape and murder of 100 000 Iraqis is a strawman and you would do well to ask your friend if he is interested in having a discussion – in which there is the matter of mutual respect, rules of logic, and just plain good faith – or does he only want to flog his agenda?

God is in the Oath of Allegiance:

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

 

[Digitonomy]

Your friend sounds whacky and off-base. However, because of the importance of this mistrustful Muslim world to our national security aims, Bush should be trying to win over the mainstream in that part of the world. Unfortunately, he hasn’t done a very good job at that, and your friend’s attitude is evidence of it. Hard to say how much his invocation of God and scriptural references play into that, but the fact is that many Muslims see the war on terror as a “crusade” (Bush’s word) against their faith.

As to whether this is different from other Western politicians, that’s not really relevant to the Muslim world. They aren’t listening to speeches by Congressmen from Kentucky or Colorado, but they do hear the president.

See also the article in this thread for how at least some Shia Muslims view the president. I don’t think this perspective is limited to Shiites.

 

[Thekla]

LtTony:

…too much in his speeches?
I ask because I’m having an internet discussion with a Muslim that Bush uses Scripture and his faith to validate his policies, and to justify the “rape and murder of 100,000 Iraqis.”
Me? I’m a middle-of-the-road Dem who is no friend of GW, fundie rightists or the left. I respect their opinions, however. Each has some truth in their positions.
But this muslim and I just see the world so differently. He thinks we are Christian terrorists. I see him as an apologist and enabler of radical Islamic violence. I see Bush’s vague religious references as no difference from any other Western politician.
What are you’re thoughts?

He’s playing to the fundamentalists in our own country; they love that kind of stuff. He has absolutely made statements implying that God is on his side but I haven’t heard him use God to justify the deaths of thousands of Iraqis.

 

[Matt25]

Digitonomy:

As to whether this is different from other Western politicians, that’s not really relevant to the Muslim world. They aren’t listening to speeches by Congressmen from Kentucky or Colorado, but they do hear the president.

.

Western politicians is not another way of saying US politicians. There are other bits of the West you know. I suspect President Putin counts as a Western politician. he may not quote God but he probably qualifies as an advocate of State Terror.

In this context Ariel Sharon probably counts as a Western politician too. Since he is guilty of supporting extra-judicial executions (not to mention Sabra and Shatila) Muslims and others may feel able to call him terroristic. Not a “Christian Terrorist” though.

 

[bgaCath]

Matt25:

Western politicians is not another way of saying US politicians. There are other bits of the West you know. I suspect President Putin counts as a Western politician. he may not quote God but he probably qualifies as an advocate of State Terror.

In this context Ariel Sharon probably counts as a Western politician too. Since he is guilty of supporting extra-judicial executions (not to mention Sabra and Shatila) Muslims and others may feel able to call him terroristic. Not a “Christian Terrorist” though.

OK, Putin is a terrorist then how about Chechyan kidnappers? freedom fighters, collaberators of Putin or legitimate goverment troops?

 

[bgaCath]

LtTony:

and to justify the “rape and murder of 100,000 Iraqis.”

rape 100,000 Iraqis? head of NKVD Beria was accused of rape 100 girls at a time. I’m wondering how that is done. now came this.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Thekla:

He’s playing to the fundamentalists in our own country; they love that kind of stuff. He has absolutely made statements implying that God is on his side but I haven’t heard him use God to justify the deaths of thousands of Iraqis.

Would you please find those relevant quotes and post them in context? Thank you.

 

[Matt25]

bgaCath:

OK, Putin is a terrorist then how about Chechyan kidnappers? freedom fighters, collaberators of Putin or legitimate goverment troops?

Its possible for bad guys to be on both sides of a war. Because the terrorists do bad things governments do not have a licences to do bad things back. The Catechism says
2312 The Church and human reason both assert the permanent validity of the moral law during armed conflict. "The mere fact that war has regrettably broken out does not mean that everything becomes licit between the warring parties

And Putin? The US State Department Reports state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3183.htm#political

In Chechnya, there have been credible allegations of violations of international human rights and humanitarian law committed by Russian and pro-Moscow Chechen forces. Chechen rebels also have committed abuses as well as acts of terrorism. Human rights groups have criticized Russian officials concerning cases of Chechens disappearing while in custody. Chechen rebels have similarly been responsible for politically motivated disappearances. Russian authorities have introduced some improvements, including better access to complaint mechanisms, the formal opening of investigations in most cases, and the introduction of two decrees requiring the presence of civilian investigators and other nonmilitary personnel during all large-scale military operations and targeted search and seizure operations. Human rights groups welcome these changes but claim that most abuses remain uninvestigated and unpunished.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Thekla:

He’s playing to the fundamentalists in our own country; they love that kind of stuff. He has absolutely made statements implying that God is on his side but I haven’t heard him use God to justify the deaths of thousands of Iraqis.

Thekla, still waiting for you to post those relevant quotes. Unless you can you are in violation of forum rules.

Discussion of a controversial news event must reference at least one publicly-available news report on the subject. This can be in the form of a link, a partial quote and a link, or a posted photo (as appropriate).