Does Contemplative Prayer Render The Need for Spiritual Reading Void?

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Hi pureDzire -

Very good comments thusfar for you to chew on.

I think at one point on these forums you said you were interested in the Secular Carmelites. This is how we approach it:
  1. Like Mary, we try to ponder in our hearts at all time regardless of our activity. Another Carmelite example is Brother Lawrence and his “Practice of the Presence of God.” From your comments, it seems like you’ve already grown into praying without ceasing.
  2. Next is a more “formalized” time of mental prayer . . . 30 minutes per day. Lectio is a good example of this, although the Spirit guides us all differently in “how” this is done. In the case of Brother Lawrence, he saw no difference between this “formal” time and what he did throughout the rest of the day . . . an ongoing, loving conversation with God.
  3. There is also the praying of the Liturgy of the Hours and daily mass (to the best of one’s abilities.)
  4. Finally, we are to set aside a specific time each day for spiritual reading.
Obviously all of this is prayer in one form or another . . . and God can call us to contemplation through any of these means.

However, the way we approach spiritual reading would be “different” than if we choose to ponder on a brief Scripture passage as part of our mental prayer. Not sure if that makes sense, but with any reading we’d do in mental prayer we specifically try to be prayerful in our approach . . . active efforts are minimal, passive efforts in the form of recollection will tend to pre-dominate over time.

With spiritual reading on the other hand, the objective (if that’s the right word) is to actively engage our minds in learning. Likewise, I’ve heard it said we should try and remain active and resist (to the best of one’s abilities) the pull toward contemplation if it occurs during the Liturgy of the Hours since it is an obligation we are bound to undertake. We can certainly have quiet interior moments, but need to do our best to finish the actual hour. That wouldn’t be the case, however, if we felt that same interior call during our mental prayer or any other formal prayer like the Rosary.

Clear as mud? 🙂

Dave:)
 
I am making copies of these posts to refer to them whenever I again lose my grasp on terms and practices. Spiritual Reading IS FOR Learning…that helped Very Much! And, Spiritual Reading as Lectio has a Different Objective, then. More a Formal time of Mental Prayer. I see. And, we may allow Our Lord to call us to Himself if during the Rosary, or Readings, we feel His Call, but during the LOTH, we should not stop without finishing it. Very Good! And, what InTheLight said about that word, Recollection, helped me connect my Readings to an actual experience I am having, giving the word a meaning now that will open up my Readings much more. You are all in my prayers, thank you so much!
 
oh, and InLight also said the following which was a tremendous help for me this day…

"To me, no matter how constant my recollection is throughout the day, spiritual reading is necessary all the time. To be nourished by the Saints’ writing is not considered as seeking consolation. When I read something I can fully identify with, I would naturally feel consoled and excited. But the comfort and fulfillment are the benefit of my reading, not something I purposely seek after. "
 
pureDzire said:
. . . but during the LOTH, we should not stop without finishing it
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Just a brief clarification. The obligation to “finish” is when one is bound by the Carmelite rule. Other orders might treat this differently.

If one prays the LOTH out of desire and is not obligated like above, then I’d see no reason why one couldn’t answer the call to contemplation should it come during one of the hours. Methods of prayer are a “means to an end.” All things being equal, we should give up the lesser (i.e. meditation, mental prayer, rosary etc) for the greater (i.e. contemplation).

Dave 🙂
 
Is that true, Dave??? If you are praying the Office as a Personal Devotion, you may give yourself to Contemplation if Our Lord calls
If Not bound by a Rule to finish it?

also…how do you get the words of someone else’s post to show up on your post in a rectangle anyway?!
 
pureDzire said:
Is that true, Dave??? If you are praying the Office as a Personal Devotion, you may give yourself to Contemplation if Our Lord calls If Not bound by a Rule to finish it?
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That’s the basic gist behind St. John’s teaching on the “3 signs” you referenced in your first post. He specifically mentions meditation but his teaching would apply to any other personal devotion as well.

You might also want to look into St. Teresa’s teaching on how we “intuit” the call to contemplation in Chapters 28-31 of “Way of Perfection.” Her words of personal experience are a wonderful complement to the more theological language St. John uses in “The Ascent” and “Dark Night.”

In a nutshell, we are to actively apply our minds to prayer via meditation, mental prayer, rosary and so on. However, if we sense that inner turning within oneself; like a “turtle drawing it’s head inside it’s shell” (St. Teresa) we know our active ways of prayer are giving way to passive recollection. If we don’t fight it, this interior prayer might deepen from recollection to the prayer of quiet or even the prayer of union if He wills it (again St. Teresa). The latter two prayers (quiet and union) are what are commonly referred to as infused contemplation.

Back to St. John, the “not fighting it” is the key. Clinging to our methods (meditation and so on) at the onset of the call to contemplation as St. Teresa so wonderfully describes in “Way of Perfection” is a principal torment in St. John’s passive night of sense.

We need to learn to give up our “doing” for just “being” if the Lord calls us in that way. Sadly, many souls get very restless with progressive inner stillness thinking it mere “idleness” (St. John). Understanding this fallacy is reason alone to embark upon a program of spiritual reading. There’s hundreds of other traps like this as well . . . and that’s where personalized spiritual direction from a priest or religious order is so helpful.

Regarding your concern over the LOTH, why don’t you ask your parish priest his views on “finishing?” What I’m saying about that might or not apply to your personal situation.
pureDzire said:
also…how do you get the words of someone else’s post to show up on your post in a rectangle anyway?!
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Use the “quote” box on the post of the person you want to make a comment on.

Hope this helps,
Dave 🙂
 
Just an FYI -

Here’s a better taste for what “spiritual reading” means from a Carmelite perspective. Think of it as spiritual study. Here’s the program of study for my formation in OCDS:

Year 1: Rule, Constitutions and various introductary materials.

Year 2: St. Teresa “Way of Perfection” and “Interior Castle.”

Year 3: St. Therese “Story of a Soul” and Fr. Dubay “Fire Within.”

Year 4: St. John “Ascent of Mount Carmel.”

Year 5: St. John “Dark Night.”

Specific questions are assigned for each chapter of the above works and reviewed by the Formation Director. We also discuss in small groups during our monthly meeting.

Dave. 🙂
 
pureDzire said:
Is that true, Dave??? If you are praying the Office as a Personal Devotion, you may give yourself to Contemplation if Our Lord calls
If Not bound by a Rule to finish it?

also…how do you get the words of someone else’s post to show up on your post in a rectangle anyway?!
Click to expand...
To get the words of someone elses post to show up just click the quote button at the bottom of their post. You can then insert your post above or below or within and choose colour font etc if you want. Leave a space between yours and their post though. God bless. I’m involved in Opus Dei myself. I love it and have benefited greatly from it. To be honest I choose my own path to a degree even though I’ve been involved 20 yrs. It just happens that way. I think it’s the holy spirit. But carmelite spirituality is fantastic if you feel drawn to that. I love St Teresa, St Therese and St John of the Cross and I wear their brown scapular from St Simon Stock. God bless you and good luck.👍 🙂
 
DBT said:
We need to learn to give up our “doing” for just “being” if the Lord calls us in that way. Sadly, many souls get very restless with progressive inner stillness thinking it mere “idleness” (St. John). Understanding this fallacy is reason alone to embark upon a program of spiritual reading. There’s hundreds of other traps like this as well . . .
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I am trying out this QUOTE thing, so please bear with me…I am hoping to have quoted from Dave’s Reply regarding the state of inner stillness and how we can mis-understand it as idleness:
NOW…if one senses this state of Inner Stillness, this means During Actual Prayer Times??? Not, during other times??? Or, at ANY Time???
 
DBT said:
Just an FYI -

Here’s a better taste for what “spiritual reading” means from a Carmelite perspective. Think of it as spiritual study. Here’s the program of study for my formation in OCDS:
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Dave, perhaps you might help me once again here…If I was more silent within BEFORE I began a Program of Formation, could that mean that the Program was bringing me back to the way of beginners and that Our Lord may already have brought me passed that? And, if so, what do I do? I know St. John of the Cross says to retrace steps one has already left behind is a significant waste of one’s time and another “trap” I believe was the word used.

Maybe I have already taken up too much of your time with this, and I apologize if this is so. You are all so very helpful though, and I am so grateful to finally have people to ask these things of.

Bless you all…T
 
pureDzire said:
Dave, perhaps you might help me once again here…If I was more silent within BEFORE I began a Program of Formation, could that mean that the Program was bringing me back to the way of beginners and that Our Lord may already have brought me passed that? And, if so, what do I do? I know St. John of the Cross says to retrace steps one has already left behind is a significant waste of one’s time and another “trap” I believe was the word used.
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Let me see if I can say this in a way that makes sense . . . so much of this lies beyond words :o

What you’re saying here (I think?) about spiritual reading, formation and so on is really something seperate from what I’m talking about regarding the progressive inner stillness that comes with contemplative prayer. Two different things entirely.

Let’s try and describe this hypothetically. Let’s say someone who is well grounded in their ascetic practices, serious about their faith and so on goes to spend an hour of adoration. Let’s say their usual practice is to do some form of formalized meditation, the rosary or lectio.

At some point during this time of prayer, this individual “might” begin to feel the inner call to contemplation in the manner described in the previous post. The soul no longer feels any desire to think or ponder on the Lord, His mysteries and so on. He feels drawn to let it all go . . . to simply “be” . . . and rest in His presence in a wordless way . . . kind of like “I look at Him while He looks at me.”

This is called recollection and we need to recognize the signs and go with the way the Lord is calling. Rembember, the way He communicates is through silence . . . beyond thoughts, forms, words and ideas.

Perhaps this stillness might deepen. As St. Teresa describes in Mansion Four of “Interior Castle” the eyes begin to close and we feel a profound drawing inward as she says “like a turtle drawing it’s head inside it’s shell.” This is the prayer of recollection giving way to the prayer of quiet; the beginnings of infused contemplation.

What happens here is that our will (love) is completely captivated by our Lord but not in a way that is considered or analyzed in anyway. We’re not thinking “I love Him because . . .” or “I love Him for such and such a reason.” We just love in a wordless, thought-less way. All the while our intellect and memory might be roaming free like so many “wild horses” . . . but we have no desire to pay attention to any of these distractions. We’re aware of them . . . but we let them go by. To latch onto them is to “resist” the prayer being given, thereby bringing this passive prayer back to active ways (ie. meditation.)

Perhaps this inner stillness deepens even further. The distractions simply cease and intellect, will and memory are all completely suspended by God. This is the “pure” contemplation of the prayer of union which is no longer human (active) and entirely supernatural (passive).

The analogy to natural sleep is sometimes used to describe this progressive inner stillness . . . in fact, St. Teresa often used the term “sleep of the faculties.” Think of passive recollection like dozing off . . . we feel the inner pull to sleep and we either give in to it or resist. Let’s say we give in to the sleep. This next phase is “like” the prayer of quiet . . . when we’re down for the count but in a fitfull way. Part of us is asleep but not fully . . . we toss and turn . . . maybe even aware of random thoughts and mental images going through our mind . . . that we don’t dwell on or consider . . . they just flow by. The prayer of union is “like” a deep, sound slumber . . . all is still and quiet . . . we’re not even aware of time or space. This little analogy might help clarify . . . or make it worse :o Again, so difficult to try and explain.

But keep in mind, all of this is at the time of prayer. And all of this is very short in duration. The entire timeframe from laying down our rosary, being interiorly drawn into the stillness of recollection and possibly quiet or union if He so wills is typically no more than 15-30 minutes from beginning to end. Longer suspensions are another of those “traps” the Saints describe that something is amiss.

Boy, I don’t know if that helped or really confused . . . but, for better or worse, there it is. 🙂

Dave 🙂
 
Wow, Dave, that was so woderfully and prayerfully put! Yes, it was a tremendous help. Even you having to repeat some of the same things made them sink in deeper this time, because, since I last wrote, I Did in fact Read the Chapters you suggested in the Way of Perfection and found in them so much more clarity since I studied the Definitions given in yesterday’s posts of the different states or stages of prayer. Glad you re-emphasized the part about, “during the time of prayer” cause I was saying that to myself just moments before you said it, so I guess I’m getting it.

Will go back now to read a bit more in the Way of Perfection to see what else speaks to me. And, later, when I say my Rosary and the Office for the Evening, I will pray for you and for the other good people who cared to assist me over these past few days.

Bless you! … and, thank you!
 
pureDzire, I highly recommend you to read Fr. Dubay’s “Fire Within”, if you have not already read it.

This book has helped me know what contemplation is and what it is not.
It has also helped me understand where I am on the journey.
 
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