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Tmaque
Guest
Canada is the largest flax producer in the world. The requirements for best flax growth are simply a loamy soil which you can find all over the Americas.
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Tmaque
Guest
With all due respect if we can’t believe what is described in the BOM when it comes to these small things then why can we believe the rest of it? Maybe “swords” means “sticks with flint,” maybe “steel” means “bronze”, maybe “horses” means “deer”. Well then maybe “Church” means “building”, and maybe “grace” means “dancing well”. My point is God gave Joseph Smith these words. These are words given to Joseph Smith in a supernatural way by God! Don’t you think God would get it right? The first time?
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ParkerD
Guest
Tmaque,
I wouldn’t have known anything about where flax is grown, but had looked it up in an encyclopedia. There are two kinds of flax–seed flax, used for flaxseed and for linseed oil for paints and varnishes; and fiber flax, used for linen fabric, rope, thread, and high-quality paper products. Canada is the leading producer of seed flax, but does not grow fiber flax commercially, nor is fiber flax grown commercially in the United States. Fiber flax is grown in Asia and Europe, including Russia, France, Romania, and China. “Fiber flax grows best in cool, moist climates with rainy summers.” “Seed flax grows best in areas with cool climates and dry summers.”
There is thus a substantial difference between the optimum climate for the two, and fiber flax is the item that Zach Dunn was referring to just in case you missed what we were talking about.
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Tmaque
Guest
Thanks for the clarification. However, flax was and is grown in the middle east which is not a “cool, moist climate with rainy summers”. Most any crop will grow if it’s warm enough, the soil is right(any gardener can tell you you can make soil right yourself), and you have a good water supply.
My point is that to say the Nephites failed to grow flax because of the climate or soil is simply a mile off. If they failed to grow it they must have, a: not known what they were doing, b: they didn’t intend to grow it, or c: (the opinion of anthropologists everywhere) were never here.
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ParkerD
Guest
They didn’t intend to grow it. The Nephites are extinct as to their population group, by the way, and the Lamanites had a tiny remnant surviving annihilation.
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Tmaque
Guest
Fair enough my friend.
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Marie5890
Guest
What about those 10,000 troops that Moroni, according to BoM, lead into battle against the Lamanites and lost.
How come there is no evidence of such a large battle?
This doesnt sound like some some tiny group (and these were just the warriors right? Not the women and children?)
How come there is no evidence of such a large battle?
This doesnt sound like some some tiny group (and these were just the warriors right? Not the women and children?)
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JMJ4
Guest
If the Lamanites were annihilated, then where are all of their bones?
Surely, someone must have found some by now.
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aspirant
Guest
The verses I’ve cited have at least 230,000 deaths in one battle. (23 x 10,000 person units)
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Marie5890
Guest
It’s my understanding that there as never been any archeological evidence found to support such a large battle has there? No weapons, bones etc??
What sort of archeological evidence do Mormons point to, if any, to support their claims?
Im not sure of the status of their apologetics in this areas stands these days?
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ParkerD
Guest
These questions are strange to me.
Do you folks think that every bone of every person who ever lived is sitting on the ground somewhere in the world at this moment, and is in plain sight for everyone to see? Really?
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Marie5890
Guest
Parker, do you really believe that such large battle would leave NO archeological evidence at all?
Really??
I find your view very strange.
No remnants of weapons? No bones what so ever (and considering we find pre-historic bones of dinasours etc???)
Do you think its reasonable that NOTHING has ever been found to even point to the possibility?!?!!?
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aspirant
Guest
What happened to the steel mills? Why didn’t anyone else adopt and continue such useful technology? Why didn’t anyone else adopt the use of draft animals (something that would have also made large wheels useful)? Why didn’t the draft animals at least survive ferally? What happened to the bees supposedly brought to the Americas from the Middle East-- why would Europeans have to reintroduce apis mellifera? Lots of questions.
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ParkerD
Guest
Marie5890,Parker, do you really believe that such large battle would leave NO archeological evidence at all?
Really??
I find your view very strange.
No remnants of weapons? No bones what so ever (and considering we find pre-historic bones of dinasours etc???)
Do you think its reasonable that NOTHING has ever been found to even point to the possibility?!?!!?
If you mean there are no bones of any Ancient Americans, then I guess all the books that describe millions of people having lived in the Americas anciently are–guessing, or wrong, or what?
The weapons were carried off by the surviving armies and pillagers thereafter, of course. That is what the whole text of the chapter in Mormon that describes the destruction is about. The weapons, the possessions, every article, became “slippery” in that if it was left unattended, it was gone by morning. That is the environment they were living in.
Bones happen, but people get buried, animals carry off bones, earthquakes happen, floods happen–shoot, I have no idea where all the bones are of everyone who has ever lived, nor do I think I need to know.
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ParkerD
Guest
Aspirant,
Bees were with the Jaredites as they journeyed in the Old World, but they didn’t take them with them to the New World. Simple as that. The Nephites didn’t talk of there being bees.
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mark_a
Guest
Yes, Jesus revealed to Christians that polygamy could no longer be practiced.
But it was the US government that revealed to Mormons that polygamy could no longer be practiced.
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JMJ4
Guest
ParkerD - Ummm… if there was a “great battle” in a said geographical area, there would be bones of dead people.
No, they would not be in plain sight, they would need to be excavated by archaeologists.
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ParkerD
Guest
Hi, JMJ4,
The problem is that there is no way of knowing where those battles took place, so archeologists would not have any idea where to excavate.
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PaulDupre
Guest
Joseph Smith, your great prophet and founder, taught that the last great battle of the BoM took place at the Hill Cumorah in Upstate New York, where he found the gold plates buried by Moroni after that great battle, wherein 230,000 Nephites were killed (not to mention the casualties on the Lamanite side).
See the Book Of Mormon, Mormon 6
Why don’t you believe him?
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ParkerD
Guest
Paul,
I understand why it appears to you that Joseph Smith was saying that the Hill Cumorah near where he lived was the same hill mentioned in Mormon 6, but in the first place, even if it were that same area they did not fight on the hill–they fought in the general area where the hill was, which could mean miles away from the hill itself, in scattered battles also with each army having a separate battle as described by Moroni.
In the second place, verse 15 talks about “a few who had escaped into the south countries”, which does not lead one to believe that the place being described is what is now upstate New York.
In the third place, Joseph Smith wrote at one time that he saw a room full of records (in vision) that Moroni was familiar with, and that the plates deposited in the Hill Cumorah site were not the entire set of Nephite records, so just because Moroni talks about a “hill called Cumorah” does not necessarily mean that the hill near Joseph Smith was the same hill. Moroni could have placed those particular plates in that particular hill near where Joseph Smith would be living in 1823, at any point during the 36 years after that battle described in Mormon 6. Moroni was also a resurrected being, so he could have moved the plates at any point as a resurrected being, also. He was the custodian of the sacred plates, with that particular responsibility given to him by God.
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