Does Episcopal LEM/LEV Count?

[nsper7]

Although I am getting closer and closer to crossing the Tiber and becoming a Roman Catholic (currently in discussion with a Roman Catholic Priest on the matter and hoping to bypass RCIA since I am already validly Baptized and have a fair amount of education in the faith), but I am remaining active in the Episcopal Church (such as receiving Communion on Sunday) until I am able to make a full profession of Roman Catholic faith.

Anyway, in October, I will be receiving, from an Episcopal Deacon, Lay Eucharistic Visitor training and, possibly, Eucharistic Minister training (i.e. to be a Chalice Bearer, etc.). If/when I am accepted in the Roman Catholic Church, will that LEV/LEM training be accepted or would I have to be ‘retrained’ by a Roman Catholic Deacon or whatever? After all, although the Roman Catholic Church does accept as valid Anglican Holy Orders, this is not so much a matter of that (I am not being ordained, although I receive a certificate from my Diocese in the Episcopal Church), but a matter of training.

 

[quiet52]

Although I am getting closer and closer to crossing the Tiber and becoming a Roman Catholic (currently in discussion with a Roman Catholic Priest on the matter and hoping to bypass RCIA since I am already validly Baptized and have a fair amount of education in the faith), but I am remaining active in the Episcopal Church (such as receiving Communion on Sunday) until I am able to make a full profession of Roman Catholic faith.

Anyway, in October, I will be receiving, from an Episcopal Deacon, Lay Eucharistic Visitor training and, possibly, Eucharistic Minister training (i.e. to be a Chalice Bearer, etc.). If/when I am accepted in the Roman Catholic Church, will that LEV/LEM training be accepted or would I have to be ‘retrained’ by a Roman Catholic Deacon or whatever? After all, although the Roman Catholic Church does accept as valid Anglican Holy Orders, this is not so much a matter of that (I am not being ordained, although I receive a certificate from my Diocese in the Episcopal Church), but a matter of training.

Is your Catholic pastor aware of your involvement in your Episcopalian church? You need to be upfront with him, and you need some guidance from him on this.

You don’t seem ready to become Catholic, if you are participating in your Episcopalian church. You seemingly do not yet have an understanding about what the differences are between what Episcopalians profess and what Catholics profess. True, as an Episcopalian, you might believe that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist – that he IS the Blessed Sacrament. However, as long as you receive the Eucharist in the Episcopalian church, and especially as long as you serve as an EMHC in that church, you are proclaiming something that Catholics cannot truthfully proclaim. You need to choose what you believe in. You are also being dishonest with the Episcopalians there, if you believe that that is not the true Church established by Jesus Christ.

If you were seeking to be received in the Catholic Church in my parish, you would be expected to attend Sunday Mass (Catholic), and NOT to receive the Eucharist (anywhere) until you are formally received into the Catholic Church. Receiving the Eucharist during Catholic Mass is a sign of our unity of faith. You are not yet united in that faith. By receiving in the Episcopalian church, you are proclaiming that you are in union with that faith.

In my parish, even the catechized non-Catholics participate in RCIA, because our priest is so overwhelmed with his duties he cannot meet personally to prepare people for the faith (which isn’t just a matter of a couple of meetings, by the way). We are short on resources. But my experience has been even with all that Episcopalians and Catholics have in common, there are well-catechized Episcopalians who are shocked at the differences, or shocked at what they didn’t know about treasures of Catholic faith, morals and practice, and they appreciate the process. I encourage you to consider RCIA as a wonderful opportunity, rather than an obstacle to you.

Please make an appointment with your Catholic pastor immediately.

Happy swimming.

 

[nsper7]

Is your Catholic pastor aware of your involvement in your Episcopalian church? You need to be upfront with him, and you need some guidance from him on this.

You don’t seem ready to become Catholic, if you are participating in your Episcopalian church. You seemingly do not yet have an understanding about what the differences are between what Episcopalians profess and what Catholics profess. True, as an Episcopalian, you might believe that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist – that he IS the Blessed Sacrament. However, as long as you receive the Eucharist in the Episcopalian church, and especially as long as you serve as an EMHC in that church, you are proclaiming something that Catholics cannot truthfully proclaim. You need to choose what you believe in. You are also being dishonest with the Episcopalians there, if you believe that that is not the true Church established by Jesus Christ.

If you were seeking to be received in the Catholic Church in my parish, you would be expected to attend Sunday Mass (Catholic), and NOT to receive the Eucharist (anywhere) until you are formally received into the Catholic Church. Receiving the Eucharist during Catholic Mass is a sign of our unity of faith. You are not yet united in that faith. By receiving in the Episcopalian church, you are proclaiming that you are in union with that faith.

In my parish, even the catechized non-Catholics participate in RCIA, because our priest is so overwhelmed with his duties he cannot meet personally to prepare people for the faith (which isn’t just a matter of a couple of meetings, by the way). We are short on resources. But my experience has been even with all that Episcopalians and Catholics have in common, there are well-catechized Episcopalians who are shocked at the differences, or shocked at what they didn’t know about treasures of Catholic faith, morals and practice, and they appreciate the process. I encourage you to consider RCIA as a wonderful opportunity, rather than an obstacle to you.

Please make an appointment with your Catholic pastor immediately.

Happy swimming.

Well, the Roman Catholic parish is a Catholic Student Center and has multiple Priests there and I have been meeting for the past few weeks with the Parochial Vicar (we have also been discussing my discerning a call to Holy Orders…an issue that is separate, but also concurrent) and I told him that, while I am undergoing whatever entrance process, I am still receiving Communion at the Episcopal parish, although I am getting more involved in the Roman Catholic parish (i.e. attending Newman Club and such).

Like a lot of Anglo-Catholics, I am kind of stuck in the middle as it were. If I had my perfect druthers, I’d remain Episcopalian (or find a good Anglo-Catholic branch of the Anglican Communion), but because of my interest in Holy Orders especially, the issue becomes more confusing. After all, as a layperson, I can hold strong Anglo-Catholic views (i.e. on the Papacy, the workings of the Eucharist, etc.), but Anglo-Catholics (or anyone else who might be deemed ‘theologically conservative’) have major problems getting ordained, especially if they disagree with the Episcopal Church is taking (i.e. Spong-ism and such).

Even as I get closer and closer to having to make a formal decision, a part of me wishes I was not in this position, especially since I was Confirmed into the Episcopal Church a couple of months ago (June 1st).

Thus, I am currently Episcopalian but getting closer and closer to changing streams as it were (from the Thames/Potomac to the Tiber) and I am wondering how any training from the Episcopal Church will be viewed in the Roman Catholic context (will it be accepted or will I require ‘retraining’?). Partially, I do not wish burn bridges and there is a chance (however it is getting smaller) that I may remain Episcopalian/Anglican.

My first intention was never to become Roman Catholic, but for spiritual/theological (i.e. in the long term, the Anglican Communion seems to be facing theological liberalism and possible schism and, as one seeking Holy Orders, how can I affirm my future parochial support of things I patently disagree with? and Anglo-Catholics, especially the kind that recognize Papal Supremacy and such, are not well liked by their liberal and evangelica Anglican comrades) and pragmatic (the Holy Orders discernment process in the Roman Catholic Church seems much more streamlined [in the ECUSA, Holy Orders discernment can drag on for many years due to no fault or issues on the candidate’s part] and there is a definite need for Priests in the Roman Catholic Church) reasons, I realize the Roman Catholic Church is probably the only viable option.

As an Anglo-Catholic, I can fit in with Roman Catholics and affirm just about anything a Roman Catholic affirms, but I will have trouble fitting in with my fellow Episcopalians and might face major problems (i.e. rejection) if I seek Anglican Holy Orders. Thus, you see the predicament.

But I still wonder how Roman Catholics will view any ‘lay training’ (for lack of a better word) received from the Episcopal Church.

 

[Joannm]

Is your Catholic pastor aware of your involvement in your Episcopalian church? You need to be upfront with him, and you need some guidance from him on this.

You don’t seem ready to become Catholic, if you are participating in your Episcopalian church. You seemingly do not yet have an understanding about what the differences are between what Episcopalians profess and what Catholics profess. True, as an Episcopalian, you might believe that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist – that he IS the Blessed Sacrament. However, as long as you receive the Eucharist in the Episcopalian church, and especially as long as you serve as an EMHC in that church, you are proclaiming something that Catholics cannot truthfully proclaim. You need to choose what you believe in. You are also being dishonest with the Episcopalians there, if you believe that that is not the true Church established by Jesus Christ.

If you were seeking to be received in the Catholic Church in my parish, you would be expected to attend Sunday Mass (Catholic), and NOT to receive the Eucharist (anywhere) until you are formally received into the Catholic Church. Receiving the Eucharist during Catholic Mass is a sign of our unity of faith. You are not yet united in that faith. By receiving in the Episcopalian church, you are proclaiming that you are in union with that faith.

In my parish, even the catechized non-Catholics participate in RCIA, because our priest is so overwhelmed with his duties he cannot meet personally to prepare people for the faith (which isn’t just a matter of a couple of meetings, by the way). We are short on resources. But my experience has been even with all that Episcopalians and Catholics have in common, there are well-catechized Episcopalians who are shocked at the differences, or shocked at what they didn’t know about treasures of Catholic faith, morals and practice, and they appreciate the process. I encourage you to consider RCIA as a wonderful opportunity, rather than an obstacle to you.

Please make an appointment with your Catholic pastor immediately.

Happy swimming.

I agree with this post. When someone comes to our parish to become a Catholic from another Christian faith the first thing we ask is that they begin to attend Mass weekly and start to “live” as a Catholic. How else are they to decide if this is what they want? If they are still attending church services in their own denomination then we can tell that they are not really ready. If they can’t do this then we continue the conversation but until we see real conversion to the faith we cannot go any further. What bothers me as well is that the OP is continuing to participate big time (being trained for ministries) in his church and thinking that it is a simple as just switching “rites” in becoming a Catholic.

I do not think the Catholic Church would accept any training in liew of going for training for any liturgical ministry that was done in another Church. It is a different ecclesiology. Also the poster is wrong in stating that the Catholic Church accept Anglican orders. While there is much debate about this, right now, Apostolic succession of Anglican Orders is not established. Those in Anglican Orders who have become Roman Catholics and then Cathoic priests have had to gone through some type of Cathoic formation process before being ordained as a Roman Catholic priest.

It sound to me that the OP still has a lot more discernment and is really not ready to make the switch since his ties are still very strong to his community. What bothers me is that he stated soemthing to the fact that he wants to keep his options open. I wish him many blessings in his discernement, and hope he comes to the truth about the Catholic faith, but until he is ready to completely let go of his connections with the Episcopal community, he should not start thinking of seeking Orders or any ministry in the Catholic Church. I have seen too many people who think of switching to Catholicism just the same as many Protestants switch churches. It should not be like that. Becoming Catholic is not something you should be thinking that you could switch back from some day.

 

[thistle]

Although I am getting closer and closer to crossing the Tiber and becoming a Roman Catholic (currently in discussion with a Roman Catholic Priest on the matter and hoping to bypass RCIA since I am already validly Baptized and have a fair amount of education in the faith), but I am remaining active in the Episcopal Church (such as receiving Communion on Sunday) until I am able to make a full profession of Roman Catholic faith.

Anyway, in October, I will be receiving, from an Episcopal Deacon, Lay Eucharistic Visitor training and, possibly, Eucharistic Minister training (i.e. to be a Chalice Bearer, etc.). If/when I am accepted in the Roman Catholic Church, will that LEV/LEM training be accepted or would I have to be ‘retrained’ by a Roman Catholic Deacon or whatever? After all, although the Roman Catholic Church does accept as valid Anglican Holy Orders, this is not so much a matter of that (I am not being ordained, although I receive a certificate from my Diocese in the Episcopal Church), but a matter of training.

One point to note is that only the priest is a Eucharistic Minister. A lay person cannot be that. The lay people who help the priest distribute Communion are Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (EMHC’s). They are not Eucharistic Ministers.

 

[Newbie2]

Although I am getting closer and closer to crossing the Tiber and becoming a Roman Catholic (currently in discussion with a Roman Catholic Priest on the matter and hoping to bypass RCIA since I am already validly Baptized and have a fair amount of education in the faith), but I am remaining active in the Episcopal Church (such as receiving Communion on Sunday) until I am able to make a full profession of Roman Catholic faith.

Anyway, in October, I will be receiving, from an Episcopal Deacon, Lay Eucharistic Visitor training and, possibly, Eucharistic Minister training (i.e. to be a Chalice Bearer, etc.). If/when I am accepted in the Roman Catholic Church, will that LEV/LEM training be accepted or would I have to be ‘retrained’ by a Roman Catholic Deacon or whatever? After all, although the Roman Catholic Church does accept as valid Anglican Holy Orders, this is not so much a matter of that (I am not being ordained, although I receive a certificate from my Diocese in the Episcopal Church), but a matter of training.

A deacon is an ordained cleric in the RCC. Methinks you would need to be trained as an EMHC in the RCC.

Like the other posters, I am confused as to why you’d continue to attend non-RCC mass/services and continue trainng while professing the desire to convert…unless you have some notion that the “training” is the same and you wouldn’t have to go through it again. (It’s not and you would have to retrain, methinks).

 

[japhy]

Anyway, in October, I will be receiving, from an Episcopal Deacon, Lay Eucharistic Visitor training and, possibly, Eucharistic Minister training (i.e. to be a Chalice Bearer, etc.). If/when I am accepted in the Roman Catholic Church, will that LEV/LEM training be accepted or would I have to be ‘retrained’ by a Roman Catholic Deacon or whatever?

To be honest, you are probably going to receive more thorough training from your deacon than you would at the average Catholic parish (which, I might say, is deplorable, no offense). That being said, the extraordinary ministry of distributing Holy Communion (by lay people) is only supposed to be carried out in cases of necessity, so it is possible you might end up belonging to a Catholic parish that (praise God!) has no need for EMHCs at Mass (although they might require lay assistance in visiting the sick and home-bound).

In the Catholic Church, EMHCs (whether at Mass or to the sick or home-bound) are required to, at the very least, be commissioned as such by their bishop. If a parish is seeking such people, you would be a favorable candidate surely, because of your training. (It also sounds like you are rather high-church, which is also a benefit.)

 

[jblake]

nsper7;:

hoping to bypass RCIA since I am already validly Baptized and have a fair amount of education in the faith),

Unless you can currently write a textbook for RCIA, bypassing it will probably result in an omission of knowledge about the beliefs, practices, doctrines, theology, and history of the Catholic Church.

If/when I am accepted in the Roman Catholic Church, will that LEV/LEM training be accepted or would I have to be ‘retrained’

You would need “retraining”, if only because of the difference in the rites.

but a matter of training.

If you are taking the training, because you think it will look good, after you swim the Tiber, you are taking it for the wrong reason.

xan

jonathon

 

[Rickwood]

Well, the Roman Catholic parish is a Catholic Student Center and has multiple Priests there and I have been meeting for the past few weeks with the Parochial Vicar (we have also been discussing my discerning a call to Holy Orders…an issue that is separate, but also concurrent) and I told him that, while I am undergoing whatever entrance process, I am still receiving Communion at the Episcopal parish, although I am getting more involved in the Roman Catholic parish (i.e. attending Newman Club and such).

Like a lot of Anglo-Catholics, I am kind of stuck in the middle as it were. If I had my perfect druthers, I’d remain Episcopalian (or find a good Anglo-Catholic branch of the Anglican Communion), but because of my interest in Holy Orders especially, the issue becomes more confusing. After all, as a layperson, I can hold strong Anglo-Catholic views (i.e. on the Papacy, the workings of the Eucharist, etc.), but Anglo-Catholics (or anyone else who might be deemed ‘theologically conservative’) have major problems getting ordained, especially if they disagree with the Episcopal Church is taking (i.e. Spong-ism and such).

Even as I get closer and closer to having to make a formal decision, a part of me wishes I was not in this position, especially since I was Confirmed into the Episcopal Church a couple of months ago (June 1st).

Thus, I am currently Episcopalian but getting closer and closer to changing streams as it were (from the Thames/Potomac to the Tiber) and I am wondering how any training from the Episcopal Church will be viewed in the Roman Catholic context (will it be accepted or will I require ‘retraining’?). Partially, I do not wish burn bridges and there is a chance (however it is getting smaller) that I may remain Episcopalian/Anglican.

My first intention was never to become Roman Catholic, but for spiritual/theological (i.e. in the long term, the Anglican Communion seems to be facing theological liberalism and possible schism and, as one seeking Holy Orders, how can I affirm my future parochial support of things I patently disagree with? and Anglo-Catholics, especially the kind that recognize Papal Supremacy and such, are not well liked by their liberal and evangelica Anglican comrades) and pragmatic (the Holy Orders discernment process in the Roman Catholic Church seems much more streamlined [in the ECUSA, Holy Orders discernment can drag on for many years due to no fault or issues on the candidate’s part] and there is a definite need for Priests in the Roman Catholic Church) reasons, I realize the Roman Catholic Church is probably the only viable option.

As an Anglo-Catholic, I can fit in with Roman Catholics and affirm just about anything a Roman Catholic affirms, but I will have trouble fitting in with my fellow Episcopalians and might face major problems (i.e. rejection) if I seek Anglican Holy Orders. Thus, you see the predicament.

But I still wonder how Roman Catholics will view any ‘lay training’ (for lack of a better word) received from the Episcopal Church.

You need to come to one very important realization well before you enter the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church recognizes what you term “Anglo-Catholics” to be Protestants. They are not in perfect communion of the Vicar of Christ on Earth. If your ideal situation would be to find an good “Anglo-Catholic” branch of the Anglican Communion then I dount you would be happy in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is no one’s second choice.

It’s also the Catholic Church, not the “Roman Catholic Church” – a moniker coined by Anglican Protestants back when they believed they still occupied a chair at the Catholic table – which they do not.

Catholics are not allowed to receive communion within Anglicanism. This is because we believe the Blessed Sacrament is the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. Because the Anglican Communion is not able to confect the Eucharist, receiving communion would be an idolatrous act for Catholics. I think that has some grave impact on your own journey.

Based on your comments and actions I think it would do you a tremendous amount of good to go through RCIA. Not only would you actually learn the faith, you would make some good friends and set a strong foundation for your future.

So stop looking for shortcuts, compromises and jump in!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Although I am getting closer and closer to crossing the Tiber and becoming a Roman Catholic (currently in discussion with a Roman Catholic Priest on the matter and hoping to bypass RCIA since I am already validly Baptized and have a fair amount of education in the faith), but I am remaining active in the Episcopal Church (such as receiving Communion on Sunday) until I am able to make a full profession of Roman Catholic faith.

Anyway, in October, I will be receiving, from an Episcopal Deacon, Lay Eucharistic Visitor training and, possibly, Eucharistic Minister training (i.e. to be a Chalice Bearer, etc.). If/when I am accepted in the Roman Catholic Church, will that LEV/LEM training be accepted or would I have to be ‘retrained’ by a Roman Catholic Deacon or whatever? After all, although the Roman Catholic Church does accept as valid Anglican Holy Orders, this is not so much a matter of that (I am not being ordained, although I receive a certificate from my Diocese in the Episcopal Church), but a matter of training.

I have a handbook from the Episcopal training, it is very close to the Catholic training. Anyway you would still be required to be trained and Commissioned by or on the authority of the local Catholic Bishop before you could take part in that ministry…

 

[nsper7]

I wish to assure posters here that, should I become Roman Catholic (whether seeking Holy Orders or not), then I will remain Roman Catholic. I would not ‘switch back’ later. Once Roman Catholic, I would remain Roman Catholic.

One thing you have to understand is that, if I were discerning Holy Orders (which started awhile back and is still in the informal stage), then I would probably not be considering swimming the Tiber. One major difference between the Episcopal Church and the Roman Catholic Church is that the Episcopal Church is not so much interested in doctrinal conformity as it is in liturgical conformity among the laity. Thus, as an Episcopalian, I can hold strong Anglo-Catholic views, including belief in transubstantiation, the validity of all seven Sacraments, Papal Supremacy and the Pope’s role as Supreme Pontiff and Successor to St. Peter and just about all other tenets of Roman Catholic doctrine (if I did not accept such tenets, I would not be thinking of crossing the Tiber). The trouble occurs when an Anglo-Catholic Episcopalian seeks Anglican/Episcopal Holy Orders. Anglo-Catholics, because they are ‘Catholic’ in a somewhat Protestant group (there are many even conservative Episcopalians who might fall into the more Evangelical/Low Church camp and then there are liberals who have no love for any of that stuff) and conservatives in an increasingly liberal organization.

Once on receives Anglican Holy Orders, then doctrinal conformity is required and, as has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads, there are certain doctrines within the Episcopal Church (i.e. a push for gay “marriages”) that I find theologically ridiculous and could not sign my name to. As it stands, even if I were not seeking Holy Orders, there might come a time when I would feel the need to leave the Episcopal Church.

The Holy Orders issue just forces me to consider these issues sooner.

I do not wish to make it sound like my only reason for going Roman Catholic is to flee my own branch of Christianity. This is not true. There are many things I love and adore about Roman Catholicism.

For example, I love knowing that, once I become officially Roman Catholic, both Communion and Confession are available pretty much everyday. I love knowing that, although I already accept the Pope currently, the Pope will now accept me. As one who studies history, I greatly admire the history and longevity of the Roman Catholic Church (as best I can tell, the RCC is the first, oldest and, for a time, primary/singular expression of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church).

As I have said, Anglo-Catholics are always in an odd situation. On the one hand, they are Anglican, yet on the other they have a deep desire and longing for Roman Catholicism. There is a reason why many Anglo-Catholics end up swimming the Tiber (look at John Cardinal Newman or G. K. Chesterton as excellent examples). For me in my time, the situation is further troubling because of the liberalism and craziness going on in the Anglican Communion.

Should it come to pass, I look forward to being Roman Catholic, being in communion with Rome.

 

[MusicMan]

To the original question, without prejudice to any mitigating circumstances… Once you formally begin entry into the Catholic Church, you should speak with your pastor about this training. It would truly depend on the norms for emsHC in your diocese as well as his assessment of your background and training meeting those norms. It is highly likely that you would have to go through some sort of diocesesan training procedure, however, the best person to talk to is the pastor of the parish you are going to enter RCIA in.

 

[LilyM]

I wish to assure posters here that, should I become Roman Catholic (whether seeking Holy Orders or not), then I will remain Roman Catholic. I would not ‘switch back’ later. Once Roman Catholic, I would remain Roman Catholic.

But you’ve got it the wrong way around. You need to live as if you’re committed to the Church NOW, to see how it fits. You can’t possibly know if you’re experiencing Catholicism in only a superficial (half-committed) way.

Surely, surely, you’ve been Episcopalian long enough already that that you know what THAT entails, so your job now is to try, in a wholehearted and not half-hearted fashion, the Roman Catholic side of the coin.

Going through the conversion process is like being engaged to be married - since marriage is monogamous, so should engagement, which prepares you for it, be. You can break off an engagement if you find you’re not ready for marriage, but you certainly can’t be simultaneously ‘engaged’ to two or three women at once.

Moreover, there would be no hope of a successful marriage for you if you were, even if you did end up marrying one of them, since ‘engagement’ to two or more women simultaneously is nothing like a proper preparation for monogamous married life.

Similarly you would have very little hope of a successful lifelong conversion to Catholicism if you can’t even commit to living in a wholly Roman Catholic fashion for even a few months.

 

[DJgang]

If you ARE going to become Catholic you should be living like a Catholic right now, just not receiving the Sacraments. Attending Mass at a Catholic Church and NOT receiving communion at any other church.

You were only confirmed in the ECUSA a couple of months ago? Then you need to hold off another year, in my opinion!

I’m finding it hard to believe that you didn’t already know the answer to your original post …

The day that I decided to become Catholic, I never stepped foot back in my ECUSA church and I never received communion again, it was my self sacrifice and I highly recommend that you do the same.

 

[nsper7]

But you’ve got it the wrong way around. You need to live as if you’re committed to the Church NOW, to see how it fits. You can’t possibly know if you’re experiencing Catholicism in only a superficial (half-committed) way.

Surely, surely, you’ve been Episcopalian long enough already that that you know what THAT entails, so your job now is to try, in a wholehearted and not half-hearted fashion, the Roman Catholic side of the coin.

Going through the conversion process is like being engaged to be married - since marriage is monogamous, so should engagement, which prepares you for it, be. You can break off an engagement if you find you’re not ready for marriage, but you certainly can’t be simultaneously ‘engaged’ to two or three women at once.

Moreover, there would be no hope of a successful marriage for you if you were, even if you did end up marrying one of them, since ‘engagement’ to two or more women simultaneously is nothing like a proper preparation for monogamous married life.

Similarly you would have very little hope of a successful lifelong conversion to Catholicism if you can’t even commit to living in a wholly Roman Catholic fashion for even a few months.

If you ARE going to become Catholic you should be living like a Catholic right now, just not receiving the Sacraments. Attending Mass at a Catholic Church and NOT receiving communion at any other church.

You were only confirmed in the ECUSA a couple of months ago? Then you need to hold off another year, in my opinion!

I’m finding it hard to believe that you didn’t already know the answer to your original post …

The day that I decided to become Catholic, I never stepped foot back in my ECUSA church and I never received communion again, it was my self sacrifice and I highly recommend that you do the same.

I was Confirmed as an Episcopalian in June, but I have been involved in that parish since about a year ago and had been involved in an Anglican (affiliated with the Anglican Church of Kenya…the parish had schismed from the Episcopal Church) parish for a couple months before that. I have been a Christian (pre-Anglican, I was an Evangelical/Non-Denom) for about four years.

I have studied some Church history and theology so I am not a complete newbie as it were. I am not trying to be obnoxious or anything, merely pointing out that I do have…erm…experience in the faith as it were.

Let the record show that I am not, at this moment, Roman Catholic. I am definitely Anglo-Catholic (an Anglican with strong Roman Catholic doctrinal and liturgical leanings) and I am beginning the process of seeking to become Roman Catholic.

And remember both the Episcopal Chapel House I receive Communion at and the Roman Catholic Church parish that I am getting involved in are both Student Centers/Campus Ministries and are very close (the RCC is four blocks from my house, the Episcopal CH is 8 blocks from my house) and my Episcopal Chaplain and the Roman Catholic Priest/Pastor (I have been in conference with the Parochial Vicar) are good friends. So this is kind of an odd situation for me and the PV knows I am still receiving Communion at the Episcopal Chapel House.

 

[Rickwood]

I wish to assure posters here that, should I become Roman Catholic (whether seeking Holy Orders or not), then I will remain Roman Catholic. I would not ‘switch back’ later. Once Roman Catholic, I would remain Roman Catholic.

There you go again. For you it’s not a matter of becoming a “Roman Catholic.” It’s a matter of you leaving a state of heresy and entering the Catholic Church.

One thing you have to understand is that, if I were discerning Holy Orders (which started awhile back and is still in the informal stage), then I would probably not be considering swimming the Tiber. One major difference between the Episcopal Church and the Roman Catholic Church is that the Episcopal Church is not so much interested in doctrinal conformity as it is in liturgical conformity among the laity. Thus, as an Episcopalian, I can hold strong Anglo-Catholic views, including belief in transubstantiation, the validity of all seven Sacraments, Papal Supremacy and the Pope’s role as Supreme Pontiff and Successor to St. Peter and just about all other tenets of Roman Catholic doctrine (if I did not accept such tenets, I would not be thinking of crossing the Tiber). The trouble occurs when an Anglo-Catholic Episcopalian seeks Anglican/Episcopal Holy Orders. Anglo-Catholics, because they are ‘Catholic’ in a somewhat Protestant group (there are many even conservative Episcopalians who might fall into the more Evangelical/Low Church camp and then there are liberals who have no love for any of that stuff) and conservatives in an increasingly liberal organization.

You’re still playing games. To be a Catholic Christian requires you to enter the Catholic Church and you ain’t there you. So quit equivocating. Either remain a Protestant or become a Catholic but don’t lie to yourself by suggesting there is some “in-between” state.

Once on receives Anglican Holy Orders, then doctrinal conformity is required and, as has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads, there are certain doctrines within the Episcopal Church (i.e. a push for gay “marriages”) that I find theologically ridiculous and could not sign my name to. As it stands, even if I were not seeking Holy Orders, there might come a time when I would feel the need to leave the Episcopal Church.

And?

The Holy Orders issue just forces me to consider these issues sooner.

That’s WRONG. You should want to be Catholic with your entire being whether or not you go into Holy Orders.

I do not wish to make it sound like my only reason for going Roman Catholic is to flee my own branch of Christianity. This is not true. There are many things I love and adore about Roman Catholicism.

It’s Catholicism. You had better get past that anglican slur…

For example, I love knowing that, once I become officially Roman Catholic, both Communion and Confession are available pretty much everyday. I love knowing that, although I already accept the Pope currently, the Pope will now accept me. As one who studies history, I greatly admire the history and longevity of the Roman Catholic Church (as best I can tell, the RCC is the first, oldest and, for a time, primary/singular expression of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church).

Actually the entire Catholic Church is ancient – not just the Latin Rite.

As I have said, Anglo-Catholics are always in an odd situation. On the one hand, they are Anglican, yet on the other they have a deep desire and longing for Roman Catholicism. There is a reason why many Anglo-Catholics end up swimming the Tiber (look at John Cardinal Newman or G. K. Chesterton as excellent examples). For me in my time, the situation is further troubling because of the liberalism and craziness going on in the Anglican Communion.

An “Anglo-Catholic” entering the Catholic Church would be no different than say a Methodist or a Prysbeterian. I think it’s fairly important you come to that realization. You are not more “Catholic” than your Protestant brethren.

Should it come to pass, I look forward to being Roman Catholic, being in communion with Rome.

Why worry about an Italian city?

Your focus should be on entering His Catholic Church to enjoy the absolute fullness of the Catholic-Christian faith here on Earth.

 

[LilyM]

And remember both the Episcopal Chapel House I receive Communion at and the Roman Catholic Church parish that I am getting involved in are both Student Centers/Campus Ministries and are very close (the RCC is four blocks from my house, the Episcopal CH is 8 blocks from my house) and my Episcopal Chaplain and the Roman Catholic Priest/Pastor (I have been in conference with the Parochial Vicar) are good friends. So this is kind of an odd situation for me and the PV knows I am still receiving Communion at the Episcopal Chapel House.

Again, this is like saying ‘gee, I’m in love with two different girls who are good friends and really like each other, but I just can’t choose between them … I know, I’ll get engaged to BOTH of them! That’ll really help me make up my mind and lead to a fantastic marriage when I finally get off the fence and marry one of them!’ Except it won’t, and pursuing this course will make it difficult if not impossible for you to actually GET off that fence.

Just because one or both of the girls may be too polite or too whatever to comment on the situation doesn’t make it any the less self-evidently wrong and disastrous in both the long and short term. ‘No man can serve two masters’ … full stop.

 

[jblake]

Rickwood;:

Either remain a Protestant or become a Catholic but don’t lie to yourself by suggesting there is some “in-between” state.

Since Anglicans are neither Protestant or Catholic, the OP is not lying to himself by suggesting that there is an 'in-between" state.

Anglo-Catholics are in the awkward situation of embracing a theology that has been implicitly rejected by the hierarchy, but has been historically endorsed and practiced by their faith.

xan

jonathon

 

[brigid12]

After all, although the Roman Catholic Church does accept as valid Anglican Holy Orders, this is not so much a matter of that (I am not being ordained, although I receive a certificate from my Diocese in the Episcopal Church), but a matter of training.

According to the papal bull of Leo XIII, the Roman Catholic Church does not accept as valid Anglican Holy Orders! Any man who comes into the RCC from the Anglican/Episcopal church must be ordained fully, and there is no conditional ordination. If you are involved in the Episcopal church in any way, you are fooling yourself about wanting to truly follow Him.
I say this as an ex-Anglo-Catholic that still has some fond memories of those days, however, as the ex-Anglican Archbishop of London said (after converting to the Roman Catholic Church), he realized that his own pride (in needing to be obedient to the Pope) was the only real thing keeping him from converting to the RCC. Everything else that he rationalized as his reasons (and in his position, there would have been many) were not more important to him than Him.
Read John 6:53-58!!! Unless your Anglican priest had an Eastern Orthodox priest at his ordination (which some have but it’s not the norm) his orders are not valid and therefore - no valid consecration of the host. I sincerely pray for this - I really do care for many of the Anglican traditions. Following Him is more important (IMHO)!!!

 

[Rickwood]

Since Anglicans are neither Protestant or Catholic, the OP is not lying to himself by suggesting that there is an 'in-between" state.

Anglo-Catholics are in the awkward situation of embracing a theology that has been implicitly rejected by the hierarchy, but has been historically endorsed and practiced by their faith.

xan

jonathon

No way.

In the eyes of the Catholic Church, Anglicans are most certainly Protestant! They are in a state of heresy, not “merely” schism. There is no in-between state. That’s a very pernicious falsehood.

Perpetuating that falsehood is not serving the OP very well right now. He needs to face the truth.