Does Episcopal LEM/LEV Count?

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

You need to speak to both the pastor where you are going though RCIA. I believe that you said it is a student center but there has to be a Catholic priest who is the head of this group. You also need to speak to who ever is in charge at your Episcopal parish and let them know what you are doing.

Although I am getting closer and closer to crossing the Tiber and becoming a Roman Catholic (currently in discussion with a Roman Catholic Priest on the matter and hoping to bypass RCIA since I am already validly Baptized and have a fair amount of education in the faith), but I am remaining active in the Episcopal Church (such as receiving Communion on Sunday) until I am able to make a full profession of Roman Catholic faith.

What you are doing here is like being engaged to be married with one person while still dating your ex saying that you will stop seeing your ex on your wedding day.

It shows a big lack of commitment and maturity (I am sorry but I truly believe this to be so). If I was the priest in charge of your RCIA I would not accept you into the Church with this going on.

Anyway, in October, I will be receiving, from an Episcopal Deacon, Lay Eucharistic Visitor training and, possibly, Eucharistic Minister training (i.e. to be a Chalice Bearer, etc.). If/when I am accepted in the Roman Catholic Church, will that LEV/LEM training be accepted or would I have to be ‘retrained’ by a Roman Catholic Deacon or whatever? After all, although the Roman Catholic Church does accept as valid Anglican Holy Orders, this is not so much a matter of that (I am not being ordained, although I receive a certificate from my Diocese in the Episcopal Church), but a matter of training.

To add to may analogy above, this is you making commitments to both your fiance and to your ex. It is like you spending the holidays with your ex while still planning your wedding with someone else.

Why go for special training for ministry in a Church you are choosing to leave?

There is something not right with this situation.

You are not ready to enter the Catholic Church. I know RCIA is a process and takes time but for those planning to enter the Church at the Easter Vigil some commitment needs to have been made when they started RCIA. While RCIA is a discernment process, it is a discernment of the Catholic Church and you are just clouding that with what you are doing.

Every RCIA I know of tells the participants who wish to enter the Church, not those who are just there to learn more about the Church with no plan on enter at the next Easter Vigil, that they need to stop receiving communion at their old church and to start attending Sunday Mass. Part of the Catechisis will take place by attending Mass.

I just had to enter my opinion on this.

 

[nsper7]

1. I am not currently an RCIA participant. I have been meeting weekly for the past few weeks with a Roman Catholic Priest (he is the Parochial Vicar at the Roman Catholic Church/Student Center). Also, I have begun involved in non-Mass activities at the Student Center (i.e. Newman Club…and I also considering be a part of the Bible Study there).

-A) The Parochial Vicar said he is going to talk to the Pastor (who was the one who granted me conditional permission to receive Communion when my Episcopal parish was closed and also to receive the Sacrament of Penance) about the process by which I can become Roman Catholic (whether the ‘normal’ RCIA or something else)

1. I am a Confirmed member of the Episcopal Church who is still involved in the Episcopal parish and I am, besides planning on receiving that LEM/LEV training, and also attending a Ministry Exploration Weekend in October (a required first/‘pre-’ step in the Episcopal discernment process for a call to Holy Orders)
2. ByzCath and others who use the engagement metaphor I think are making a categorical error in describing my situation. To stay in the same metaphorical range:

-A) I am currently ‘wed’ (through the Sacrament of Confirmation) to the Episcopal Church, but I may be seeking an annulment due to the Episcopal Church’s infidelity (not to me, but to Scripture and Sacred Tradition) and my lack of knowledge (some of it vincible, some of it ‘invincible’) to the current issues within the Episcopal Church (i.e. the fears of a MAJOR schism within the Anglican Communion, a subtle persecution [such as denial of Holy Orders] to more theologically conservative/Anglo-Catholic types, etc.) and a growing love for the Roman Catholic Church.

-B) Since such an ‘annulment’ is a major decision, I do not wish to formally make said decision until I absolutely have to (i.e. when I am told that I have reached the time to officially profess faith in the Roman Catholic Church or formally enter an RCIA or RCIA-type of program).

 

[Rickwood]

1. I am not currently an RCIA participant. I have been meeting weekly for the past few weeks with a Roman Catholic Priest (he is the Parochial Vicar at the Roman Catholic Church/Student Center). Also, I have begun involved in non-Mass activities at the Student Center (i.e. Newman Club…and I also considering be a part of the Bible Study there).

-A) The Parochial Vicar said he is going to talk to the Pastor (who was the one who granted me conditional permission to receive Communion when my Episcopal parish was closed and also to receive the Sacrament of Penance) about the process by which I can become Roman Catholic (whether the ‘normal’ RCIA or something else)

1. I am a Confirmed member of the Episcopal Church who is still involved in the Episcopal parish and I am, besides planning on receiving that LEM/LEV training, and also attending a Ministry Exploration Weekend in October (a required first/‘pre-’ step in the Episcopal discernment process for a call to Holy Orders)
2. ByzCath and others who use the engagement metaphor I think are making a categorical error in describing my situation. To stay in the same metaphorical range:

-A) I am currently ‘wed’ (through the Sacrament of Confirmation) to the Episcopal Church, but I may be seeking an annulment due to the Episcopal Church’s infidelity (not to me, but to Scripture and Sacred Tradition) and my lack of knowledge (some of it vincible, some of it ‘invincible’) to the current issues within the Episcopal Church (i.e. the fears of a MAJOR schism within the Anglican Communion, a subtle persecution [such as denial of Holy Orders] to more theologically conservative/Anglo-Catholic types, etc.) and a growing love for the Roman Catholic Church.

-B) Since such an ‘annulment’ is a major decision, I do not wish to formally make said decision until I absolutely have to (i.e. when I am told that I have reached the time to officially profess faith in the Roman Catholic Church or formally enter an RCIA or RCIA-type of program).

Something is dreadfully wrong…

Just where do you live that precludes you from receiving communion in another Episcopalian parish? Better yet unless you are in a combat zone or the like what makes you think you can receive communion in the Catholic Church at all? What sort of circumstances make you believe you can partake of the Sacrament of Penance?

You need to talk to a capable and serious Catholic priest FAR removed from your current environment. Something is dreadfully wrong…

 

[nsper7]

Something is dreadfully wrong…

Just where do you live that precludes you from receiving communion in another Episcopalian parish? Better yet unless you are in a combat zone or the like what makes you think you can receive communion in the Catholic Church at all? What sort of circumstances make you believe you can partake of the Sacrament of Penance?

You need to talk to a capable and serious Catholic priest FAR removed from your current environment. Something is dreadfully wrong…

Like I said, I asked the permission of the Priest/Pastor and he granted conditional permission for the receiving of Communion (and he should know there are other Episcopal parishes in town, although the Catholic Student Center is closest to the parish I normally attend) and he seemd to grant me general permission to receive Penance (actually allowing me to Confess my sins and receive Absolution right there in his office…he had his Stole with him) with the caveat that if I seem to involved in the ‘Sacramental life of the Church’, that is often a good indicator that such a person is being guided by the Holy Spirit to seek Roman Catholicism.

 

[MusicMan]

I have two questions for the OP. He needn’t answer them here, but within them, will he find his answers.

1.) When you decided to become a Christian, why did you choose to become Episcopalian?

2.) Why are you now interested in Catholicism?

 

[Rickwood]

Like I said, I asked the permission of the Priest/Pastor and he granted conditional permission for the receiving of Communion (and he should know there are other Episcopal parishes in town, although the Catholic Student Center is closest to the parish I normally attend) and he seemd to grant me general permission to receive Penance (actually allowing me to Confess my sins and receive Absolution right there in his office…he had his Stole with him) with the caveat that if I seem to involved in the ‘Sacramental life of the Church’, that is often a good indicator that such a person is being guided by the Holy Spirit to seek Roman Catholicism.

You need to stop doing what you are doing.

For you to receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church under the circumstances you describe is gravely wrong.

I’m not sure why you went to confession as you are not able to receive valid absolution.

The best thing for you to do is to go find another Catholic priest to talk to – and orthodox one and you need to be HONEST with him.

You’re profaning two sacraments of the Catholic Church yet you seem to think you should be received into the Catholic Church at an accelerated pace. I sorta think the opposite applies – a LONG formation via RCIA.

THEN AGAIN and please pardon me if I am wrong, your continued use of the moniker “Roman Catholic Church” suggests to me (and only me – it’s just what I perceive) that your postings are based on parody, not fact.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

1. I am not currently an RCIA participant. I have been meeting weekly for the past few weeks with a Roman Catholic Priest (he is the Parochial Vicar at the Roman Catholic Church/Student Center). Also, I have begun involved in non-Mass activities at the Student Center (i.e. Newman Club…and I also considering be a part of the Bible Study there).

-A) The Parochial Vicar said he is going to talk to the Pastor (who was the one who granted me conditional permission to receive Communion when my Episcopal parish was closed and also to receive the Sacrament of Penance) about the process by which I can become Roman Catholic (whether the ‘normal’ RCIA or something else)

1. I am a Confirmed member of the Episcopal Church who is still involved in the Episcopal parish and I am, besides planning on receiving that LEM/LEV training, and also attending a Ministry Exploration Weekend in October (a required first/‘pre-’ step in the Episcopal discernment process for a call to Holy Orders)

** 3) ByzCath and others who use the engagement metaphor I think are making a categorical error in describing my situation. To stay in the same metaphorical range:

-A) I am currently ‘wed’ (through the Sacrament of Confirmation) to the Episcopal Church, but I may be seeking an annulment due to the Episcopal Church’s infidelity (not to me, but to Scripture and Sacred Tradition) and my lack of knowledge (some of it vincible, some of it ‘invincible’) to the current issues within the Episcopal Church (i.e. the fears of a MAJOR schism within the Anglican Communion, a subtle persecution [such as denial of Holy Orders] to more theologically conservative/Anglo-Catholic types, etc.) and a growing love for the Roman Catholic Church.

-B) Since such an ‘annulment’ is a major decision, I do not wish to formally make said decision until I absolutely have to (i.e. when I am told that I have reached the time to officially profess faith in the Roman Catholic Church or formally enter an RCIA or RCIA-type of program).**

You don’t seek an annulment until after you have separated from your spouse and already have a divorce! If there is reason for an annulment you don’t keep on having sex with a wife you think you may not really be married to! That’s what you are doing by receiving communion in the Episcopal church. You don’t celebrate your anniversary either, which is like what you did by being confirmed in that church. When you were confirmed in the Episcopal church didn’t you have to make promises? And you were already considering leaving?

Seriously, if you are considering becoming Catholic you shouldn’t go through any more training for cup bearer or the ministry discernment weekend (which is to discern if you are called to ministry in the Episcopal church). It is dishonest and unfair to the people who are training you. If you aren’t really committed to the Episcopal church you should not be receiving communion there much less preparing for any official duties.

You shouldn’t become a Catholic because you want to be a priest. That would be like entering into a new marriage because you want to be a grandfather. What if you go through a discernment process, enter seminary, and your superiors decide that you don’t have a vocation? Will you go back and try the Episcopal church??

The only reason to become Catholic is because it is true. And God is calling you here. We need priests who are in love with Jesus and with His church.

My suggestion is to go through RCIA and do it in a parish, not at a student center. Attend daily mass at the student center but on Sunday go to the parish. See what Catholic life is really like. Go to the Catholic bible study on campus. Watch The Journey Home program on EWTN at 8:00 pm eastern time on Mondays and see why others became Catholic. Begin to pray the rosary.

May God guide you on your journey of faith.

 

[nsper7]

When I was Confirmed into the Episcopal Church, I had every intention of remaining Episcopalian/Anglican. Even since my Confirmation (June 1st), things have gotten worse in Anglicanism (for example, the GAFCON meeting in Jerusalem which may signal the beginning of a MAJOR schism within the Anglican Communion).

Also, I am not still receiving Communion at that Roman Catholic Student Center/Church (the conditional permission was only for during times when my Episcopal parish is closed…it is currently open).

In regards to continuing involvement in the Episcopal Church, I put it this way: ‘hope for the best, prepare for the worst’. At this time, I am not exactly sure what even constitutes the ‘best’ or the ‘worst’. Should I remain in the Episcopal Church? Should I become Roman Catholic? Should I join a different Anglican province or one of the Continuing Anglican groups that is no longer in communion with +Cantuar? Do I have a calling to Holy Orders (and if so, is it Episcopal, Roman Catholic or a non-Episcopal but still somehow Anglican?)?

Talk to GKC and others and you will understand that the Anglican Communion is in a major period of transition (and probably not for the better). These are confusing and trying times for many Anglicans.

There are many things drawing me towards Roman Catholicism and I cannot think of any Roman Catholic doctrine that I would not be willing to affirm. Even if I have personal misgivings, I would be willing to bow to the will of the Magesterium and Sacred Tradition. Like the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Michael Ramsay, I have come to acknowledge the Pope’s role within the Catholic (Universal) Church.

In many ways, the only thing holding me back from joining Roman Catholicism (besides the fact that I have to wait for the Parochial Vicar and Pastor to settle some issues on my situation) is a hope that Anglicanism can somehow pull away from that abyss of theological liberalism and relativism. I wish to note that I will be meeting that Roman Catholic Priest/Parochial Vicar again next week.

BTW- on the question of using the term ‘Roman Catholic’, no offense is meant by it. It is merely to differentiate. Heck, many Roman Catholics use the term themselves.

 

[Rickwood]

Claire_from_DE:
You don’t seek an annulment until after you have separated from your spouse and already have a divorce! If there is reason for an annulment you don’t keep on having sex with a wife you think you may not really be married to! That’s what you are doing by receiving communion in the Episcopal church. You don’t celebrate your anniversary either, which is like what you did by being confirmed in that church. When you were confirmed in the Episcopal church didn’t you have to make promises? And you were already considering leaving?

Seriously, if you are considering becoming Catholic you shouldn’t go through any more training for cup bearer or the ministry discernment weekend (which is to discern if you are called to ministry in the Episcopal church). It is dishonest and unfair to the people who are training you. If you aren’t really committed to the Episcopal church you should not be receiving communion there much less preparing for any official duties.

You shouldn’t become a Catholic because you want to be a priest. That would be like entering into a new marriage because you want to be a grandfather. What if you go through a discernment process, enter seminary, and your superiors decide that you don’t have a vocation? Will you go back and try the Episcopal church??

The only reason to become Catholic is because it is true. And God is calling you here. We need priests who are in love with Jesus and with His church.

My suggestion is to go through RCIA and do it in a parish, not at a student center. Attend daily mass at the student center but on Sunday go to the parish. See what Catholic life is really like. Go to the Catholic bible study on campus. Watch The Journey Home program on EWTN at 8:00 pm eastern time on Mondays and see why others became Catholic. Begin to pray the rosary.

May God guide you on your journey of faith.

Extremely good advice. The OP definitely needs to get away from his current environment which is clearly leading him astray.

 

[Rickwood]

When I was Confirmed into the Episcopal Church, I had every intention of remaining Episcopalian/Anglican. Even since my Confirmation (June 1st), things have gotten worse in Anglicanism (for example, the GAFCON meeting in Jerusalem which may signal the beginning of a MAJOR schism within the Anglican Communion).

Also, I am not still receiving Communion at that Roman Catholic Student Center/Church (the conditional permission was only for during times when my Episcopal parish is closed…it is currently open).

In regards to continuing involvement in the Episcopal Church, I put it this way: ‘hope for the best, prepare for the worst’. At this time, I am not exactly sure what even constitutes the ‘best’ or the ‘worst’. Should I remain in the Episcopal Church? Should I become Roman Catholic? Should I join a different Anglican province or one of the Continuing Anglican groups that is no longer in communion with +Cantuar? Do I have a calling to Holy Orders (and if so, is it Episcopal, Roman Catholic or a non-Episcopal but still somehow Anglican?)?

Talk to GKC and others and you will understand that the Anglican Communion is in a major period of transition (and probably not for the better). These are confusing and trying times for many Anglicans.

There are many things drawing me towards Roman Catholicism and I cannot think of any Roman Catholic doctrine that I would not be willing to affirm. Even if I have personal misgivings, I would be willing to bow to the will of the Magesterium and Sacred Tradition. Like the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Michael Ramsay, I have come to acknowledge the Pope’s role within the Catholic (Universal) Church.

In many ways, the only thing holding me back from joining Roman Catholicism (besides the fact that I have to wait for the Parochial Vicar and Pastor to settle some issues on my situation) is a hope that Anglicanism can somehow pull away from that abyss of theological liberalism and relativism. I wish to note that I will be meeting that Roman Catholic Priest/Parochial Vicar again next week.

BTW- on the question of using the term ‘Roman Catholic’, no offense is meant by it. It is merely to differentiate. Heck, many Roman Catholics use the term themselves.

You just don’t get it. Even if your brand of Anglo-Protestantism is able to “somehow pull away from that abyss of theological liberalism and relativism” it’s still just that – Protestantism. It’s not Catholic.

Finally, it’s the Catholic Church. The Latin Church is but one rite within the Catholic Church. Just because others refer to the Catholic Church as the “Roman Catholic Church” doesn’t make it right.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

**In many ways, the only thing holding me back from joining Roman Catholicism (besides the fact that I have to wait for the Parochial Vicar and Pastor to settle some issues on my situation) is a hope that Anglicanism can somehow pull away from that abyss of theological liberalism and relativism. I wish to note that I will be meeting that Roman Catholic Priest/Parochial Vicar again next week.

**But Anglicanism is not Catholicism. If you would remain Episcopalian if only you could be ordained as an Anglo-Catholic you are missing an essential teaching of the Catholic Church. The Catholic point of view is that it is THE Church and that only Catholics and Orthodox have valid sacraments. What you are saying, which seems so wrong to us, is that what you really
would like to do is to be a priest in a denomination that doesn’t have valid sacraments. Failing that, you are willing to become a Catholic. Not good enough!

Do I misunderstand what you have said?

 

[Aramis]

The Only things that count, coming from the Episcopal faith, are baptism and ordination.

Baptism, because anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, can validly baptize.

Ordination matters because one ordained invalidly may still be ordained into the Catholic clergy under the “protestant provision.”

But, in the case of the OP…

1. The priest who allowed you communion erred egregiously in letting you commune. Canon 843: notes that the sacraments are only for those in union with rome already, save those of the Eastern Churches with Valid Sacraments.
2. confession is likewise so restricted.

Either choose to be Catholic, or choose to be Anglican… but make the choice, and know that what you did was wrong, and the priest was wrong.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM
will tell you the Laws of the Roman Church. Go, read.

…

intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_INDEX.HTM
carries the law for the rest of the Catholic Church. Go, Read.

…

Until you’ve decided to become Catholic, you are an Anglican. The Anglican ecclesial community is not in union with Rome. A few Anglican pastors converted, and many Anglican Faithful converted, and Rome granted a dispensation to use the Anglican missal, but they are not Anglo-catholics; they are Roman Catholics using the Anglican Form of the Roman Missal, not the BCP.

Should you make the choice to become Catholic, you should cut your ties to your Anglican parish and Bishop.

Until you are certain which way you are going, you should not be studying for the ministries.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

The Only things that count, coming from the Episcopal faith, are baptism and ordination.

Baptism, because anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, can validly baptize.

** Ordination matters because one ordained invalidly may still be ordained into the Catholic clergy under the “protestant provision.”**
Anglican priests may be ordained as Catholic priests but it isn’t automatic by any means and may require additional formation.

But, in the case of the OP…
** 1) The priest who allowed you communion erred egregiously in letting you commune. Canon 843: notes that the sacraments are only for those in union with rome already, save those of the Eastern Churches with Valid Sacraments.
2) confession is likewise so restricted.**
True, except that a Protestant who has no church of his denomination available to him and feels a great need of those sacraments and has a Catholic faith in them and asks for them on his own can be admitted to them by the pastor (I’m not sure if it needs the approval of the bishop). However, in this case the OP stated that there were other Episcopal churches available to him so the priest was truly in error.

Either choose to be Catholic, or choose to be Anglican… but make the choice, and know that what you did was wrong, and the priest was wrong.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM
will tell you the Laws of the Roman Church. Go, read.

…

intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_INDEX.HTM
carries the law for the rest of the Catholic Church. Go, Read.

…

Until you’ve decided to become Catholic, you are an Anglican. The Anglican ecclesial community is not in union with Rome. A few Anglican pastors converted, and many Anglican Faithful converted, and Rome granted a dispensation to use the Anglican missal, but they are not Anglo-catholics; they are Roman Catholics using the Anglican Form of the Roman Missal, not the BCP.

Should you make the choice to become Catholic, you should cut your ties to your Anglican parish and Bishop.

Until you are certain which way you are going, you should not be studying for the ministries.

 

[Aramis]

Claire:
That permission you reference ONLY applies to Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, Ancient Church of the East, Old Catholic, PNCC, and a few other odd groups. Of these, only the PNCC and Utrecht (Old Catholic) can be considered western.

Carefully read the canon (844):
Can. 844 §1. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments licitly to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone, who likewise receive them licitly from Catholic ministers alone, without prejudice to the prescripts of §§2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and ⇒ can. 861, §2.

§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

§3. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed. This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments as these Eastern Churches.

§4. If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed.

§5. For the cases mentioned in §§2, 3, and 4, the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops is not to issue general norms except after consultation at least with the local competent authority of the interested non-Catholic Church or community.

It does not apply at all to protestants. Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists… all are excomunicated and under bans and have been since the 1700’s or before. Further, it’s well established that their sacraments are not considered valid.

This is clear from the CCC, item 1400
1400 Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, "have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders."236 It is for this reason that Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible for the Catholic Church. However these ecclesial communities, "when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory."237

236 UR 22 # 3.
237 UR 22 # 3.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P42.HTM

Whether or not Henry VIII’s Anglican Church was derived from the Reformation, the later issues definitely imposed the reformation upon the CoE, and it is now fruit of the reformation.

Knott’s missal, as catholic as it might seem, is still a protestant liturgy, and fruit of the Reformation.

Also, please, when replaying to a quote, add the quote tags, like this: **[/quote] your stuff here **[quote]

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Aramis, You’re right. I was thinking of paragraph 4, grave necessity, which does allow/require the bishop to make a judgement.

 

[quiet52]

Dear Nsper7,

You said:

Although I am getting closer and closer to crossing the Tiber and becoming a Roman Catholic …I am remaining active in the Episcopal Church (such as receiving Communion on Sunday) until I am able to make a full profession of Roman Catholic faith.

You cannot maintain your identity as an Episcopalian up until the moment you are received into the Catholic Church. You must demonstrate your eagerness to be Catholic, and only Catholic, long before you are allowed to make a full profession of faith and are received into the Church.

In my parish, baptized non-Catholics do not need to commit to joining the Catholic Church in order to participate in RCIA.

However, there is a point at which they make a commitment to eagerly participate in catechesis with the view of preparing for the sacraments of initiation: the liturgical “Rite of Welcoming,” after which the participants are called “candidates for reception into full communion of the Catholic Church.” It is a point of looking forward, not looking back at their former community of faith. Candidates can change their minds about becoming Catholic, of course, up to the minute they’re to be received into the Church. However, once they are officially “candidates” they are expected to attend weekly Mass (without receiving the Eucharist). They are officially part of the parish community. They are expected to not only learn “about” Catholicism but to live a Catholic lifestyle. They would no longer participate in their non-Catholic ecclesial community. If they still desire to participate in that community, they’re not yet ready to become candidates (let alone Catholics).

You are not yet ready to be a “candidate” because you are still very attached to your Episcopalian community. But I do hope you’ll participate eagerly in RCIA. No matter what you ultimately decide, at least you might learn more than you think you will, about the Catholic faith.

This being said, it’s not set in stone that all Christians who are well-catechized MUST participate in RCIA (or the liturgical rites prior to the sacraments). My parish just doesn’t have the resources (priests and lay catechists) available, so the well-catechized prepare along with the non-catechized. And it seems to work out very well for all the participants.

(continued)

 

[quiet52]

You said:

… and Anglo-Catholics, especially the kind that recognize Papal Supremacy and such, are not well liked by their liberal and evangelica Anglican comrades) and pragmatic (the Holy Orders discernment process in the Roman Catholic Church seems much more streamlined [in the ECUSA, Holy Orders discernment can drag on for many years due to no fault or issues on the candidate’s part] and there is a definite need for Priests in the Roman Catholic Church) reasons, I realize the Roman Catholic Church is probably the only viable option.

Practicality should not be the reason for your becoming a Catholic. It may be possible that you’re being called to the priesthood – but serving as a priest should not be your primary reason for becoming Catholic. Another poster said it – you need to want to be Catholic with all your mind, heart and soul, whether you become a priest or not. Being a priest should be a result of your loving being Catholic – not “I love the idea of being a priest, so I want to become Catholic.”

God does work in mysterious ways though. Maybe your reasons don’t matter – He has His own reasons and His own way of leading us.

You said:

As an Anglo-Catholic, I can fit in with Roman Catholics and affirm just about anything a Roman Catholic affirms, but I will have trouble fitting in with my fellow Episcopalians and might face major problems (i.e. rejection) if I seek Anglican Holy Orders. Thus, you see the predicament.

Again, the reason for your becoming Catholic should not be to leave a “predicament” or because the process of becoming a priest is streamlined.

I can fit in with Roman Catholics and affirm just about anything a Roman Catholic affirms…
(LATER POST): There are many things drawing me towards Roman Catholicism and I cannot think of any Roman Catholic doctrine that I would not be willing to affirm. Even if I have personal misgivings, I would be willing to bow to the will of the Magesterium and Sacred Tradition.

First of all, remember it’s the Holy Spirit leading us.

The RCIA process helps the participants face their misgivings. It is a learning process – and as well-catechized as you may be, do not assume that there isn’t much more to learn and understand.

And I hope you want more than to just “fit in” – I hope you will want to fully embrace everything Catholic.

You should know that you cannot be received into the Catholic Church until you accept “everything” (and NOT “just about anything”) that she teaches.

You will also need to accept that the Catholic Church does not recognize your Episcopalian Confirmation as a valid one, and that you will be confirmed for the first time, in the eyes of the Church (and in your eyes) immediately after you are received into the Church.

I hope you’ll re-consider participating in that training opportunity. You do not fully believe in what you’re doing, and you’re not being honest to your fellow Episcopalians or to yourself. You are using the training and its intended ministry for the wrong reasons.

Be patient. Pray constantly. Love Jesus. Surrender to His will, not to your own.

I pray that you won’t want to cross the Tiber in a speedboat. Enjoy the swim, with each stroke being a conscious effort to encounter Jesus and His Church with joyful anticipation and love. The swim is an on-going faith conversion – in mind, in heart, in action. Always appreciate that you have been blessed by your Protestant communities in wonderful ways. My hope for you is that you’ll fully believe that there is nothing greater than the treasure found across the Tiber (until you pass through those pearly gates of course).

 

[maggiemay2u]

Although I am getting closer and closer to crossing the Tiber and becoming a Roman Catholic (currently in discussion with a Roman Catholic Priest on the matter and hoping to bypass RCIA since I am already validly Baptized and have a fair amount of education in the faith), but I am remaining active in the Episcopal Church (such as receiving Communion on Sunday) until I am able to make a full profession of Roman Catholic faith.

Anyway, in October, I will be receiving, from an Episcopal Deacon, Lay Eucharistic Visitor training and, possibly, Eucharistic Minister training (i.e. to be a Chalice Bearer, etc.). If/when I am accepted in the Roman Catholic Church, will that LEV/LEM training be accepted or would I have to be ‘retrained’ by a Roman Catholic Deacon or whatever? After all, although the Roman Catholic Church does accept as valid Anglican Holy Orders, this is not so much a matter of that (I am not being ordained, although I receive a certificate from my Diocese in the Episcopal Church), but a matter of training.

Each time I moved and found a new parish, I had to be trained and commissioned as a EMHC. Three parishes, three training sessions, three commissioning ceremonies. I think it’s safe to assume that you will have to be “retrained” as an RC-EMHC.

Just the fundamentals of where things are located in and about the sacristy, where the stations are, and any duties specific to your assignment, aside from the sacramental training, is essential. Besides, It’s a nice way to meet folks in ministries in the parish, and the commissioning is a nice way of letting the congregants know you’ve arrived.

 

[palmas85]

Unless you are involved with a truly progressive parish and or Priest, and it sounds as if you might be, you will more than likely be required to go through RCIA even though you are baptized and have a good bit of knowledge about the faith.

RCIA, if conducted properly, a big if I might add, is a wonderful and frankly almost essential way for an adult to come into the Church. No matter how much you know or think you know about the Catholic faith, you will find RCIA will teach you many things, again if done properly.

I am not totally convinced that you are ready to convert, expecially since you seem to be so deeply involved in the community that you are in and seem to be looking for ways to avoid certain things, RCIA, Extraordinary Minister training etc.,

Coming into the Catholic Church is a life changing event, or it should be anyway , and from everything that I have read you are still sitting on the fence.

My advice, step back, take a good look at where you are and more importantly where you want to go, and then make a decision that you can accept and live with. easier said than done, I know.

As an aside, I taught RCIA and CCD for many many years and met many potential converts in similar situations as yourself. I know what happened with most of them, and that is why I feel qualified to speak as I have.

Best wishes on your journey.

 

[quiet52]

I am not totally convinced that you are ready to convert, expecially since you seem to be so deeply involved in the community that you are in and seem to be looking for ways to avoid certain things, RCIA, Extraordinary Minister training etc.,

Coming into the Catholic Church is a life changing event, or it should be anyway , and from everything that I have read you are still sitting on the fence…
Best wishes on your journey.

Just a comment about conversion – it’s not an event or a one-time deal. Each of us is called to convert continually (daily), until we reach Heaven. Seems to me the OP has been working on his journey of conversion for quite some time. I think he’s doing fine. Coming to this site for advice is a good sign.

It’s easy for us on the outside to be impatient, because with joyful hope we so long for him to jump immediately from one point to another. People like the OP help to motivate me to continue working on my own journey.