Does Episcopal LEM/LEV Count?

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Just a comment about conversion – it’s not an event or a one-time deal. Each of us is called to convert continually (daily), until we reach Heaven. Seems to me the OP has been working on his journey of conversion for quite some time. I think he’s doing fine. Coming to this site for advice is a good sign.

It’s easy for us on the outside to be impatient, because with joyful hope we so long for him to jump immediately from one point to another. 🙂 People like the OP help to motivate me to continue working on my own journey.
I have to disagree with this. The poster is deeply involved in his current community and while seemingly wanting to convert, doen’t really seem to want to do the leg work to accomplish that, perhaps feeling that since there is a similarity in the rites that he can segue right on over with no problem.

Having dealt with many people over the years in exactly his same situation I can safely tell you that until he is ready to make the commitment to the Catholic faith he needs to hold off.

I’m not saying this in a bad way, but I can’t remember how many people came up and would tell us, “Oh I already went through all that, I don’t need it.” To a person they were not ready to make the step or rather the leap necessary. The few that did come in lapsed shortly after entering and the few that did successfully convert did so only after fully examining their current situations and cutting themselves off from their prior groups.

It just doesn’t sound to me like he is ready for the challenge. Having been on the interview panels for many a year I feel somewhat qualified to offer that assesment. Had I interviewed him and he gave me these answers, I would have made that same reccomendadtion to the Pastor, who of course would have had the final say to accept or deny.
 
I have to disagree with this. The poster is deeply involved in his current community and while seemingly wanting to convert, doen’t really seem to want to do the leg work to accomplish that, perhaps feeling that since there is a similarity in the rites that he can segue right on over with no problem.

Having dealt with many people over the years in exactly his same situation I can safely tell you that until he is ready to make the commitment to the Catholic faith he needs to hold off.

I’m not saying this in a bad way, but I can’t remember how many people came up and would tell us, “Oh I already went through all that, I don’t need it.” To a person they were not ready to make the step or rather the leap necessary. The few that did come in lapsed shortly after entering and the few that did successfully convert did so only after fully examining their current situations and cutting themselves off from their prior groups.

It just doesn’t sound to me like he is ready for the challenge. Having been on the interview panels for many a year I feel somewhat qualified to offer that assesment. Had I interviewed him and he gave me these answers, I would have made that same reccomendadtion to the Pastor, who of course would have had the final say to accept or deny.
My friend. Isn’t it better that this person and the priest with whom he’s communicating come to a decision in this matter? This person came here with a specific question. Let’s just give him the best information we can, and let him box out the rest with priest who is probably wisely allowing him to discern his own path. Maybe it’s a marathon as opposed to a sprint.
 
My friend. Isn’t it better that this person and the priest with whom he’s communicating come to a decision in this matter? This person came here with a specific question. Let’s just give him the best information we can, and let him box out the rest with priest who is probably wisely allowing him to discern his own path. Maybe it’s a marathon as opposed to a sprint.
That is exactly what I am doing.
 
All I am trying to do is keep options open. On the one hand, there are things drawing me to Roman Catholicism, but there are also things calling me to stay Anglican. In each case, it is both spritual/theological and pragmatic issues that are pulling me one way or another.

Doesn’t it make sense for me to continue involvement in the Episcopal Church as I explore involvement in Roman Catholicism? Do I not have time until I reach that decision point (i.e. profession of faith, Confirmation into the Roman Catholic Church, etc.) to make a decision? Until then, wouldn’t it be unwise to burn bridges?
 
All I am trying to do is keep options open. On the one hand, there are things drawing me to Roman Catholicism, but there are also things calling me to stay Anglican. In each case, it is both spritual/theological and pragmatic issues that are pulling me one way or another.

Doesn’t it make sense for me to continue involvement in the Episcopal Church as I explore involvement in Roman Catholicism? Do I not have time until I reach that decision point (i.e. profession of faith, Confirmation into the Roman Catholic Church, etc.) to make a decision? Until then, wouldn’t it be unwise to burn bridges?
What, like those early Christians who, while professing belief in Christ, kept all the kosher and other laws of Judaism, kept going to synagogue, kept avoiding gentile Christians like a good Jew would - so as not to ‘burn their bridges’ y’know, just because they hadn’t yet ‘reached a decision point’???

Or the Greeks and Romans who, again while professing belief in Christianity, kept up the public ceremonials honouring their pagan gods - because of the ‘spiritual/theological and pragmatic issues’ that they couldn’t sort out.

The only ‘options’ you have, my friend, are the option to chose truth and the option to choose falsehood. Why, that being the case, would you WANT to ‘keep your options open’? As if you cannot trust Christ to lead you to His truth regardless of what bridges you may have to burn?

‘Because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth’. Rev 3:16
 
What, like those early Christians who, while professing belief in Christ, kept all the kosher and other laws of Judaism, kept going to synagogue, kept avoiding gentile Christians like a good Jew would - so as not to ‘burn their bridges’ y’know, just because they hadn’t yet ‘reached a decision point’???

Or the Greeks and Romans who, again while professing belief in Christianity, kept up the public ceremonials honouring their pagan gods - because of the ‘spiritual/theological and pragmatic issues’ that they couldn’t sort out.

The only ‘options’ you have, my friend, are the option to chose truth and the option to choose falsehood. Why, that being the case, would you WANT to ‘keep your options open’? As if you cannot trust Christ to lead you to His truth regardless of what bridges you may have to burn?

‘Because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth’. Rev 3:16
You are drawing an unfair conclusion. I am not claiming to be Christian while still trying to be either a non-Christian Jew (i.e. Pharisaic, etc., although it should be remembered that Joseph of Arimathea was said to be guilty of just such a thing…he was a ‘scret’ disciple for fear of the Jews and was a part of a major Jewish council…tradition has it that it may have been the Sanhedrin) or a gentile (Greco-Roman pagan).

This is an issue of which branch of Christianity do I wish to follow.
 
All I am trying to do is keep options open. On the one hand, there are things drawing me to Roman Catholicism, but there are also things calling me to stay Anglican. In each case, it is both spritual/theological and pragmatic issues that are pulling me one way or another.

Doesn’t it make sense for me to continue involvement in the Episcopal Church as I explore involvement in Roman Catholicism? Do I not have time until I reach that decision point (i.e. profession of faith, Confirmation into the Roman Catholic Church, etc.) to make a decision? Until then, wouldn’t it be unwise to burn bridges?
Nsper, you are doing more than keeping options open. You are jumping into a ministry as an Episcopalian, when you’re not sure you want to remain one. You do not fully subscribe to what Episcopalians profess. So, with humility and honesty – and out of fairness to yourself and to your fellow Episcopalians, do not take advantage of the ministry training unless and until you are absolutely certain you can profess to believe everything held by that faith community.

Again, choosing a faith should not be for utilitarian reasons – a means to a vocation. The (obedient) faith is a means to Heaven; a vocation is a way to serve IN faith. You must also know that no one is entitled to the priesthood. After a lengthy period of discernment, a man might discern that he is being called, but a bishop can say “no.” If you do indeed swim the Tiber some day, the policy in most dioceses is that you’d have to wait a certain length of time before a discernment to the priesthood can actively begin. The bishop has a right to know that you love being Catholic and are committed to serving our Lord and His Church, no matter what. In fact, not even lay people are “entitled” to certain ministries. We can offer to serve as lectors or extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, for example, but the pastor can say no.

As for exploring Catholicism, of course you may explore Catholicism while continuing to worship as an Episcopalian. No commitment should be required of anyone who wants to inquire about the faith. You may inquire about the faith as long as you want to. In my parish, you would be encouraged to participate in RCIA. But as I stated in a previous post, you may not particiapte in the “Rite of Welcoming” or become a candidate for full communion until you are ready to demonstrate that you do not have each foot in a different pool. You’d need to demonstrate that you’re letting go of all affiliation with your former ecclesial community, and that you’re committing to catechesis and to intense preparation for reception of the sacraments in the Catholic Church. During the catechumenate period you can of course change your mind about being received into the Church (or choose to delay reception if you have some misgivings you need to resolve) – but it is a period of looking forward, not of looking back.

You must realize that catechesis involves more than sitting in a class and then “graduating.” Catechesis isn’t just someone spoon-feeding you with information – it is a process in which you would participate in the “tasks” wholeheartedly.

Catechesis: “helping to know, to celebrate and to contemplate the mystery of Christ” as understood and taught by the Catholic Church, whose founder is Christ.

Fundamental tasks (in which candidates fully participate in – these are not just something “done” by the catechists):
  • promote knowledge of the faith
  • teach about the liturgy
  • teach how to pray
  • provide moral formation
  • draw people into the community
  • mission people to serve
(see section 85 from the General Directory for Catechesis)

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_17041998_directory-for-catechesis_en.html

In addition to the catechetical component of your RCIA process, you would have a sponsor to encourage you in your journey, and of course you would jump into the liturgy wholeheartedly (except you forgo receiving the Eucharist).
 
quiet52;:
You do not fully subscribe to what Episcopalians profess.
He’s an Anglo-Catholic. They subscribe to the theology that Episcopalians originally professed.
unless and until you are absolutely certain you can profess to believe everything held by that faith community.
ECUSA has all but rejected the 39 Articles, along with the rest of the tenants of faith of the Anglican Communion. Anglican Province of America fully endorses those 39 Articles, and the rest of the tenants of faith of the Anglican Communion.

Which set of principles of faith are to be endorsed, for one to “believe everything held by that faith community”? Those of ECUSA, or those of Anglican Province of America? (Both groups are part of the Anglican Communion, and as such, arguably part of the same “faith community”.)

xan

jonathon
 
Other than asking two “reflect on these questions,” I have held my tongue on the off-topic that this thread has spiraled off to. However…

Based on everything I have seen in this thread, I don’t get the feeling that the OP is as dangerously close to falling into the Tiber as his sig claims he is, nor as some of the more conservative voices in this thread seem to think he is.

Beyond my reflection questions, I don’t have much guidance for the OP. The assertation of the Catholic Church that she (and the Orthodox) is the one True Faith aside, perhaps a wiser course of action for the OP would be to remain Episcopal and work to prevent/repair the damage he fears from within.
 
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