Does freedom of religion include forcing your religious beliefs on others?

[interestedman]

This is not just about birth control pills. Not everyone uses birth control pills. They also use IUDs and sterilization, etc.

Exactly. And not all birth control pills are the same. This is like saying that its not a big deal if statins aren’t covered because you can get statins for a few dollars a month. Well not all statins are that cheap and some are closer to 70 or 100 a month.

 

[Bill_Martin]

No, this isn’t about the government forcing its beliefs on faithful Catholics. This is about faithful Catholics forcing THEIR beliefs on people that don’t believe in them and the government not allowing it.

You still have it backwards.

Not buying you stuff is not “forcing my beliefs” on you. I am not going to buy you a Prius either. Does that mean I am forcing my anti-Prius beliefs on you?

Being forced to buy you stuff, in this case stuff that I believe is wrong, is the government forcing me to go against my beliefs.

 

[fix]

Exactly. And not all birth control pills are the same. This is like saying that its not a big deal if statins aren’t covered because you can get statins for a few dollars a month. Well not all statins are that cheap and some are closer to 70 or 100 a month.

People take statins to treat pathology. Pills, devices, procedures used exclusively to suppress fertility treat no pathology.

 

[Jeremiah1278]

If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?

Interesting. To hold your opinion (that folks are being forced), I’d have to start with the premise that these employees are:

1. Entitled to the existence of my business that employs them.
2. Entitled to be employed by my business
3. Entitled to specific benefits that my business pays for.

Woops. Scratch all of that. For me to hold your opinion I’d have to start the premise that these employees are:

1. Entitled to the existence of my business that employs them.
2. Forced to be employed by my business
3. Forced to accept the specific benefits that my business pays for.

None of those things are true. I do understand that our country saw fit to make it difficult to get health insurance outside of your employer paying for some of it, but it’s pretty silly to act like the employee is forced into anything.

 

[fix]

No, this isn’t about the government forcing its beliefs on faithful Catholics. This is about faithful Catholics forcing THEIR beliefs on people that don’t believe in them and the government not allowing it.

You are very confused on this point. The government is interferring with Catholics. There is no right to provide contraceptives to anyone. Catholics do not want to pay for someone else’s behavior. Not paying for it is not forcing anything on anyone. Unless you redefine what force actually is.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?

Just because I don’t provide an employee with something, doesn’t mean I’m forcing my beliefs on them. Birth control is affordable without insurance for it. Condoms are easy to come by. With Planned Parenthood, someone can get other forms of contraception too. It doesn’t mean I have to provide them as an employer.

Now, if I stated that in order to work for me, every employee must attend the Catholic Church every Sunday and if I caught any employee purchasing contraception, they would be fired, that would be forcing my beliefs on someone else.

 

[lerapt78]

Interesting. To hold your opinion (that folks are being forced), I’d have to start with the premise that these employees are:

1. Entitled to the existence of my business that employs them.
2. Entitled to be employed by my business
3. Entitled to specific benefits that my business pays for.

Woops. Scratch all of that. For me to hold your opinion I’d have to start the premise that these employees are:

1. Entitled to the existence of my business that employs them.
2. Forced to be employed by my business
3. Forced to accept the specific benefits that my business pays for.

None of those things are true. I do understand that our country saw fit to make it difficult to get health insurance outside of your employer paying for some of it, but it’s pretty silly to act like the employee is forced into anything.

When some people don’t get what they feel they are “entitled” to, they often will believe that they have certain rights which are somehow being violated by others.

 

[Corki]

This is not just about birth control pills. Not everyone uses birth control pills. They also use IUDs and sterilization, etc.

And this is one of the big unanswered questions that I have raised a few times. The “compromise” put the cost of the mandated birth control onto the insurance companies but I can’t find anything about the mandated sterilization coverage. It’s one thing to think that an insurance company can absorb the cost of birth control pills but a much different scenario if the insurance company is supposed to provide direct access to sterilizations.

 

[djmauck]

If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?

If somebody asked me to buy him a condom and I said no, how is that forcing my beliefs on him? He is still free to acquire it on his own. If the government stepped in and said I was legally obligated to buy him a condom, isn’t THAT the true coercive behavior? Isn’t that the state forcing their beliefs on me?

The argument that it’s the insurance companies that pay for them doesn’t hold water. “OK then, give my friend your money, and then my friend can buy the condom. That way you’re not really buying it for me (wink, wink).”

Also, contraception is not health care. Health care is meant to treat pathological conditions. Contraception actually takes somebody with a healthy, functioning reproductive system and artificially induces infertility, which is actually a pathological state legitimately treated by medicine when it occurs without chemical inducement. I have yet to hear an argument that contraception is, indeed, a “women’s health” issue. Yes, birth control pills are used to treat actual medical conditions, which by the way, is supported by the Church, but fertility is not a medical condition. It’s a normal, healthy state of being. Why should anybody be forced to pay for somebody to be able to have sex as much as they want without having to face the healthy, natural consequences of sex - i.e. pregnancy? The only 100% reliable way to avoid pregnancy is also completely free - abstinence.

 

[Used2beSherryG]

If somebody asked me to buy him a condom and I said no, how is that forcing my beliefs on him? He is still free to acquire it on his own. If the government stepped in and said I was legally obligated to buy him a condom, isn’t THAT the true coercive behavior? Isn’t that the state forcing their beliefs on me?

The argument that it’s the insurance companies that pay for them doesn’t hold water. “OK then, give my friend your money, and then my friend can buy the condom. That way you’re not really buying it for me (wink, wink).”

Also, contraception is not health care. Health care is meant to treat pathological conditions. Contraception actually takes somebody with a healthy, functioning reproductive system and artificially induces infertility, which is actually a pathological state legitimately treated by medicine when it occurs without chemical inducement. I have yet to hear an argument that contraception is, indeed, a “women’s health” issue. Yes, birth control pills are used to treat actual medical conditions, which by the way, is supported by the Church, but fertility is not a medical condition. It’s a normal, healthy state of being. Why should anybody be forced to pay for somebody to be able to have sex as much as they want without having to face the healthy, natural consequences of sex - i.e. pregnancy? The only 100% reliable way to avoid pregnancy is also completely free - abstinence.

:flowers:

 

[Stephen168]

This is not just about birth control pills. Not everyone uses birth control pills. They also use IUDs and sterilization, etc.

This is not just about Toyota Yaris’. Not everyone drives a Toyota Yaris. They also drive Cadillacs and Bugatti, etc.

I pay for half of my premiums, and always have.

So you only want to force your employer to pay half in your case. Employees who pay no premiums would be forcing their employer to pay 100% of the immoral product.

I still don’t get what their beef is, it has nothing to do with them anymore since the mandate puts the responsibility on the shoulders of the insurance company.

The ‘beef’ is that birth control is not insurance. It is the government forcing employers to buy there employees something immoral.

No, this isn’t about the government forcing its beliefs on faithful Catholics. This is about faithful Catholics forcing THEIR beliefs on people that don’t believe in them and the government not allowing it.

When my children were young they also believed I was forcing my beliefs on them by not buying them candy. They thought like they were “intitled” to candy via my labor (money.) Now they are all grown up and know that no man is “intitled” to another man’s labor. They are free to buy all the candy they want from their own labor.

 

[ricks1948]

Are atheists shutting down churches? How are atheists forcing their beliefs on people?

Like this, there are more.

myfoxny.com/story/19286943/sept-11-memorial-defends-display-of-steel-cross