Does freedom of religion include forcing your religious beliefs on others?

  • Thread starter Thread starter interestedman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
interestedman said:
If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?
Click to expand...
It isn’t forcing one’s beliefs on another to not provide something to someone. In this specific case, no employee is forced to work for an employer who does not offer “birth control”. The employer is not forcing anything on anyone by not offering “birth control”…they simply don’t offer it and employees are free to work there or not. You, for example, would not be forcing your employees to conform to your beliefs by not offering them something. For example, an employer who refuses to provide Bibles to his employees isn’t forcing anti-Bible beliefs on his employees…he just simply does not provide Bibles.
 
interestedman said:
If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?
Click to expand...
This is one of those charges, like “racist”, that is designed to disarm the advocate of religious freedom.
“[T]he next time someone tells you that we shouldn’t legislate morality, you may want to ask, ‘Yours or other people’s?’ Because the only way not to legislate morality is not to legislate at all. So what it all boils down to is that if you truly wouldn’t legislate morality, you’re not tolerant – you’re an anarchist.”
 
That isn’t forcing anything on anyone. They are free to get birth control anywhere else on their own. I am not their only source of it. I should not be forced to pay for it. They are not forced to work for me in the first place.
 
apologies if i haven’t read this being point made on one of the 111,093 threads we have on this,but contraception is not healthcare.it isn’t curing an illness.
 
scipio337 said:
The employer is paying a portion of it. See “Immediate Material Cooperation”.
Click to expand...
Immediate Material Cooperation doesn’t apply to compliance to a government mandate to provide health insurance any more than paying taxes. If the employer is not able to pick and choose services, and if the government mandates that the insurance companies themselves have to provide the services for everyone, than the culpability is removed from the employer.
 
april32010 said:
apologies if i haven’t read this point made on one of the 111,093 threads we have on this,but contraception is not healthcare.it isn’t curing an illness.
Click to expand...
Says who? Certainly not the health care providers, the insurance companies and the government. Preventative care is still part of healthcare. No one thinks pregnancy is a disease, however that doesn’t mean patients don’t want to prevent it. Even OBGYNs write prescriptions for contraception and perform tubal ligations as part of preventative care…that makes it part of healthcare.
 
Ask yourself this: Does someone’s right not to hold religious beliefs include forcing me to abandon mine?
 
interestedman said:
If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?
Click to expand...
No, because you simply arn’t providing something that they don’t have a right to. Those employees agreed to the terms and conditions of their employment knowing that they wouldn’t receive BC from u. If they don’t like it they can find another job because they are lucky to have a job that provides health care in the first place. this is that “entitlement viewpoint”. You are entitled to your rights, you arn’t entitled to be fed, clothed, and cared for by others.

Encroaching on freedom of religion is when you PREVENT someone from doing something, say if the government suddenly banned all mosques or when people disrupt another religions practices. Westboro Baptist probably thinks we are encroaching on their freedom of religion by living unbiblicaly around them and tempting them with our lifestyle of pure EVIL!
 
april32010 said:
apologies if i haven’t read this being point made on one of the 111,093 threads we have on this,but contraception is not healthcare.it isn’t curing an illness.
Click to expand...
It wasn’t until required by the government about 12 years ago. People who look to the government for moral guidance and reason accept this new irrational government definition.
 
Hunter24 said:
No, because you simply arn’t providing something that they don’t have a right to. Those employees agreed to the terms and conditions of their employment knowing that they wouldn’t receive BC from u. If they don’t like it they can find another job because they are lucky to have a job that provides health care in the first place. this is that “entitlement viewpoint”. You are entitled to your rights, you arn’t entitled to be fed, clothed, and cared for by others.

Encroaching on freedom of religion is when you PREVENT someone from doing something, say if the government suddenly banned all mosques or when people disrupt another religions practices. Westboro Baptist probably thinks we are encroaching on their freedom of religion by living unbiblicaly around them and tempting them with our lifestyle of pure EVIL!
Click to expand...
Exactly. In fact, the only one in the scenario being “forced” to do anything is the employer because he is being forced to violate his religious beliefs in order to accommodate those who don’t hold them. Lack of religious beliefs does not justify forcing someone else to abandon his.
 
interestedman said:
If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?
Click to expand...
As usual your logic is totally flawed. By refusing to provide and or pay for birth preventative medicine and related services, including abortion you are not forcing anything on your employees and certainly not your religious views. Your employees can purchase these services on their own.

However the government is forcing all employeers to pay for insurance that provides these services eventhough some employeers would thus be forced to act against their conscience and their religious beliefs.

And the government is forcing Christian schools, hospitals, etc to provide for these services even through their self insured policies.

Clearly, it is the Government who is blatantly violating the well formed consciences of religious organizations and their religious freedom, and also violating the same rights of all citizens. I can hear the jack booted thugs marching down the street now. And make no mistake, that is what it will come to, it always does. And oddly enough those in support of such tactics will find reason to rue the day they cheered and encouraged such power. Because, in the end, every dictatorship eats its own as well. Study your history.

So who is forcing who?. In Saudi Arabia, India, North Korea, China, etc we could expect nothing else. But the corrent policies of our government are clearly an attack on religious freedom and the right of all people to govern their lives according to a rightly formed conscience.

I wonder, are you a plant from the new " Militant Athiest " movement. You propaganda won’t pass here. Or maybe you are just a plant from the current administration.:hmmm:
 
salusanimarum17 said:
And the same cooperation applies for the Catholic employee who pays a portion of the premium, right?
Click to expand...
Rence said:
Immediate Material Cooperation doesn’t apply to compliance to a government mandate to provide health insurance any more than paying taxes. If the employer is not able to pick and choose services, and if the government mandates that the insurance companies themselves have to provide the services for everyone, than the culpability is removed from the employer.
Click to expand...
Cardinal Burke says employers who comply with the HHS mandate engage in material and formal cooperation with sin
 
I will say this: I am really, really, really tired of those of the** religion of Atheism** inflicting their view via judicial activism, the Educational system and the ACLU (Against Catholic Liberties Union ;)) upon us ! :cool:
 
interestedman said:
Are these people being forced to go out and buy the birth control for their employees? It is part of their health plan. It is completely different.
Click to expand...
Freedom to practice one’s religion is a right guaranteed us in the constitution, specifically in the first amendment. Practicing Catholicism includes agreement with the doctrines which outlaw the use of and participation in contraception and abortion in any way. Any Catholic who is faithful to the teachings of the Church understands and accepts these teachings. As a Catholic based company or organization, a right exists under the constitution to be exempt from provisions which are in conflict with our faith. Any person who does not share our belief is free to go elsewhere and purchase their own products of insurance which includes these elements or to buy their own contraceptive drugs or contraptions. No one is forcing these people to adhere to our religious beliefs at all.
 
interestedman said:
If you don’t provide birth control to your employees because of your religious beliefs, and 100% of your employees don’t have the same religious beliefs as yourself, you are forcing your religious beliefs on them. So does freedom of religion extend to forcing your religious morals on others? If a bunch of people work for me is it right for me to make them conform to my religious beliefs?
Click to expand...
The premise of your argument is flawed. Not buying something for someone is not forcing something on them. My health insurance doesn’t pay for my chiropractic care. It’s important to me, so I find a way to pay for it out of my pocket. I don’t go around blaming my employer for forcing his non-chiropractic beliefs on me. I choose to either pay for it myself or to do something I don’t have to pay for.
 
Rence said:
Immediate Material Cooperation doesn’t apply to compliance to a government mandate to provide health insurance any more than paying taxes. If the employer is not able to pick and choose services, and if the government mandates that the insurance companies themselves have to provide the services for everyone, than the culpability is removed from the employer.
Click to expand...
So it IS a tax?

Again the employer (particularly the self insured) would be providing direct financial assistance for an immoral act.

It is Immediate Material Cooperation.
 
Nimzovik said:
I will say this: I am really, really, really tired of those of the** religion **of Atheism inflicting their view via judicial activism, the Educational system and the ACLU (Against Catholic Liberties Union ;)) upon us ! :cool:
Click to expand...
I would agree with that partialy. Atheists trumpet themselves at fair and opposed to the intolerance they see as caused by religion, but infact some radical atheists are just as intolerant and controling as theocrats. The US has no official state religion, but that dosn’t mean that the state religion is Atheism. in fact if the government has to take any stance it should probably take that of neutral agnosticism and regard all religions (including atheism) as equal.

honestly, i think that some of those militant atheists must have skin thinner than paper, you cant hardly say the word religion in some places without pissing them off. It wouldn’t suprise me if they tried to ban religious bumper stickers.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top