Does God Answer Prayers?

[tonsofquestions]

I am going to try to articulate this as best as possible. Can God really answer prayers? What I mean is this. God is perfect, right? And His will is perfect? So let’s say God has willed that my sick child is going to die. If that’s his will, then no amount of prayer will change it, right? Because for him to change His mind, that would mean He is changing from a perfect decision of letting my child die(and it must have been a perfect decision, since that’s what God willed), to an imperfect decision, right? And God can’t make an imperfect decision, can he(correct me if I’m wrong)? Here’s another example, in Exodus 32:7-14, God is ticked at the Israelites and wants to wipe them out. Moses pleads with Him not to, and He relents. My question in this scenario is, if killing the Israelites was the perfect decision to make, then changing His mind would mean God was changing from a perfect decision to an imperfect decision, which He can’t do, right? And if sparing them was the perfect thing to do, then God would never have intended to destroy them in the first place, because that would have been an imperfect decision. If sparing them was the perfect thing to do, that would have been His will from the beginning, and thus, Moses’ prayers didn’t change anything, right?

What do you guys think? If my assumptions about God not being able to make an imperfect decision are wrong, please tell me.

 

[Silvereel]

C.S. Lewis said God always answers prayers. Sometimes the answer is no. Now, I think you’re misunderstanding nature for something that God does. A tree doesn’t fall because God gave it a push. It falls because God’s laws of nature say it will fall. A person may die for the same reason. That isn’t to say God did not know that they would die, or that the tree would fall, he knows everything, and we still have free will. But he knows the way things will go, you see.

 

[tonsofquestions]

C.S. Lewis said God always answers prayers. Sometimes the answer is no.

I know, and so did Jesus. But my point is that it seems impossible that our prayers would matter, as God could not defy His perfect nature by making an imperfect decision simply because we prayed for Him to, right?

 

[tonsofquestions]

C.S. Lewis said God always answers prayers. Sometimes the answer is no. Now, I think you’re misunderstanding nature for something that God does. A tree doesn’t fall because God gave it a push. It falls because God’s laws of nature say it will fall. A person may die for the same reason. That isn’t to say God did not know that they would die, or that the tree would fall, he knows everything, and we still have free will. But he knows the way things will go, you see.

Well, in the case I gave about the Israelites, God definetely was planning to “give it a push”, as you say. He was definetely willing something to happen, and yet He changed his mind.

 

[Silvereel]

Certainly God may have certain pivitol events as part of his master plan, and he certainly does actively work in the world… don’t misunderstand me there. But I don’t like to think that He has a little book with how we are going to die (Person X is going to die horrible on June X 20XX). God set up laws that control out lives, and if we earnestly ask Him He will sometimes change these laws for our good.

 

[Luke65]

When God said that He “changed His mind” about destroying the Israelites, it means that He would have destroyed them if not for the intercession, and merits, of Moses. Of course, God knew that Moses would beg His mercy, and that He would not destroy the Israelites, but He is trying to teach us the power of intercessory prayer; after all, we are our brother’s keeper! And yes, its all part of God’s perfect plan for His imperfect creatures. God bless.

 

[StrawberryJam]

If God thought it best to wipe out all the isrealites, but Moses a mere human was able to change God’s mind about his will to do what is best for everyone then what good was served by Moses interfering with what God knew best?

 

[ricmat]

I am going to try to articulate this as best as possible. Can God really answer prayers? What I mean is this. God is perfect, right? And His will is perfect? So let’s say God has willed that my sick child is going to die. If that’s his will, then no amount of prayer will change it, right? Because for him to change His mind, that would mean He is changing from a perfect decision of letting my child die(and it must have been a perfect decision, since that’s what God willed), to an imperfect decision, right? And God can’t make an imperfect decision, can he(correct me if I’m wrong)? Here’s another example, in Exodus 32:7-14, God is ticked at the Israelites and wants to wipe them out. Moses pleads with Him not to, and He relents. My question in this scenario is, if killing the Israelites was the perfect decision to make, then changing His mind would mean God was changing from a perfect decision to an imperfect decision, which He can’t do, right? And if sparing them was the perfect thing to do, then God would never have intended to destroy them in the first place, because that would have been an imperfect decision. If sparing them was the perfect thing to do, that would have been His will from the beginning, and thus, Moses’ prayers didn’t change anything, right?

What do you guys think? If my assumptions about God not being able to make an imperfect decision are wrong, please tell me.

If God thought it best to wipe out all the isrealites, but Moses a mere human was able to change God’s mind about his will to do what is best for everyone then what good was served by Moses interfering with what God knew best?

As said in previous posts, sometimes God’s answer is no. It could also be, “no, not yet” or “Yes, but not in the way you expect.”

But with regard to “changing his mind” - God DOES test us (our faith) sometimes. A good example is Abraham and Isaac. God said “kill your son” and Abraham said “aye aye sir” (paraphrased). At the last minute God said “Hold on there, I was just testing you.”

God’s justice sometimes demands payment. We can e.g. offer up our own suffering, or prayers, etc. for someone else (or ourselves). If we don’t offer them up - zap. If we do offer them up - no need for zap. God hasn’t changed his mind. The option for both A and B was there to begin with, and which one it is depends on us.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Moses, one man had enough intercessory ability (you mention offering up suffering…) to prevent the deaths of all of the isrealites? Approximately how many human lives are we talking about here now?

1. what did Moses “suffer” at that point to offer up? Other than being ticked off he was picked by God?
2. how was his request to God better than the plan God had before Moses pleaded?

 

[StevieD]

I doubt that you are a ‘Catholic having doubts’ but are possibly an atheist trying to sow doubts. If you are sincere, I recommend that you read ‘Miracles Do Happen’ by Sr. Briege McKenna which offers very solid answers to your questions, for a Catholic who doubts but none whatsoever for a convinced atheist.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I doubt that you are a ‘Catholic having doubts’ but are possibly an atheist trying to sow doubts. If you are sincere, I recommend that you read ‘Miracles Do Happen’ by Sr. Briege McKenna which offers very solid answers to your questions, for a Catholic who doubts but none whatsoever for a convinced atheist.

I would never assume to know what is in another’s heart and mind.
Is Pelosi a catholic? She says she is. She does not claim to have “doubts” openly, as far as I know. But, I get the impression she is like many catholics I have met in life that either don’t care what the church teaches and remain or worse, don’t believe in God at all and remain. I was once told by an athiest that they were catholic. I asked, how can you claim to be catholic? He said because he was baptised catholic and that is “indelible” and can not ever be changed even though he has commited the act of apostacy.
I don’t see any reason to accuse a person that has doubts and is honest about them to have alterior motives. Its far more admirable than the majority of those who should be that honest and are not.

 

[ricmat]

Moses, one man had enough intercessory ability (you mention offering up suffering…) to prevent the deaths of all of the isrealites? Approximately how many human lives are we talking about here now?

1. what did Moses “suffer” at that point to offer up? Other than being ticked off he was picked by God?
2. how was his request to God better than the plan God had before Moses pleaded?

I mentioned suffering as a separate item, not related in this case to Moses.

I’m speculating that God’s plan before Moses pleaded was “Do A if X, and do B if Y.” Moses chose Y, so God did B instead of A.

The israelites deserved death. God’s mercy is apparent in that their deaths were prevented by Moses’ petition. It’s not a matter of Moses being more powerful than God.

 

[Silvereel]

Actually it can change. You can ask to be formally removed from the Church, or be excomunicated.

 

[PJJH]

God does not reveal all of his plans to us. Just what we need for salvation (Which is why we have the Church:thumbsup.

God may determine that he is going to destroy the Israelites, unless someone intercedes on their behalf. He may only reveal the first half to us. This does not make his decision any less perfect. Instead it makes his decision enforce a lesson that he wants us to learn, we need to pray (and work) for each others benefit.

By the way, this DOES NOT mean that God lies. God may have truly intended to carryout the Israelites destruction, if not for Moses’s decision to act on their behalf.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Actually it can change. You can ask to be formally removed from the Church, or be excomunicated.

So then, the sacrament of baptism is not indelible?
I thought the catholic church taught that the order of priesthood and baptism are indelible.
Regardless of any actions on the person’s part after that point.

Please elaborate.

 

[StrawberryJam]

God does not reveal all of his plans to us. Just what we need for salvation (Which is why we have the Church:thumbsup.

God may determine that he is going to destroy the Israelites, unless someone intercedes on their behalf. He may only reveal the first half to us. This does not make his decision any less perfect. Instead it makes his decision enforce a lesson that he wants us to learn, we need to pray (and work) for each others benefit.

By the way, this DOES NOT mean that God lies. God may have truly intended to carryout the Israelites destruction, if not for Moses’s decision to act on their behalf.

Its rather convienient Moses was the only one who knew of the plan to even be able to intercede. You are assuming no one else would have. Had they simply been told about the mass killing about to occur, I think it rather unlikely no one would have done their best to stop that. Which leads me back to my original point.

What good would have come from all that bloodshed?

Moses sounds like any other man that would do the same in the face of a mass killer laying out his plan.

 

[StrawberryJam]

God does not reveal all of his plans to us. Just what we need for salvation (Which is why we have the Church:thumbsup.

This scares me more than you realize. It should never be just about our own hide that matters. Yet this is what I keep hearing over and over again. My salvation. My personal relationship. Me, me, me.

 

[anEvilAtheist]

God does not reveal all of his plans to us. Just what we need for salvation (Which is why we have the Church:thumbsup.

God may determine that he is going to destroy the Israelites, unless someone intercedes on their behalf. He may only reveal the first half to us. This does not make his decision any less perfect. Instead it makes his decision enforce a lesson that he wants us to learn, we need to pray (and work) for each others benefit.

By the way, this DOES NOT mean that God lies. God may have truly intended to carryout the Israelites destruction, if not for Moses’s decision to act on their behalf.

But see, God knows what Moses is going to do before he does it. Libertarian free will is not compatible with God’s omniscience.

 

[tukfryer]

I am going to try to articulate this as best as possible. Can God really answer prayers? What I mean is this. God is perfect, right? And His will is perfect? So let’s say God has willed that my sick child is going to die. If that’s his will, then no amount of prayer will change it, right? Because for him to change His mind, that would mean He is changing from a perfect decision of letting my child die(and it must have been a perfect decision, since that’s what God willed), to an imperfect decision, right? And God can’t make an imperfect decision, can he(correct me if I’m wrong)? Here’s another example, in Exodus 32:7-14, God is ticked at the Israelites and wants to wipe them out. Moses pleads with Him not to, and He relents. My question in this scenario is, if killing the Israelites was the perfect decision to make, then changing His mind would mean God was changing from a perfect decision to an imperfect decision, which He can’t do, right? And if sparing them was the perfect thing to do, then God would never have intended to destroy them in the first place, because that would have been an imperfect decision. If sparing them was the perfect thing to do, that would have been His will from the beginning, and thus, Moses’ prayers didn’t change anything, right?

What do you guys think? If my assumptions about God not being able to make an imperfect decision are wrong, please tell me.

In context of living or dieing you are right apparently God changed his mind If you continue to read the next day you will see that God killed them anyway so He didn’t change His mind. This was such a grievous act that He said… “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book” now that is completely dead. Even though these people “I dont believe it was all of them but most probably” were still walking around they are dead to God. Read a bit farther and you see that He says “Nevertheless, in the day when I visit for punishment, I will visit punishment upon them for their sin”.

Conclusion for me is when God said they were dead then they are dead even though they were still walking around. In His eyes it was unforgivable and He did not change His mind. They will never rise to be restored in the presents of God in heaven. Makes little difference that they are still the walking dead.

Exodus 32:33
And the LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book. 34 Now therefore, go, lead the people to the place of which I have spoken to you. Behold, My Angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit for punishment, I will visit punishment upon them for their sin.”
35 So the LORD plagued the people because of what they did with the calf which Aaron made.

 

[tukfryer]

tonsofquestions

Please dont start a tread about how God got lost in the desert for 40 years because He forgot where He was going

He was letting these people that partied with the golden image live out the pathetic little lives. They would not be allowed to enter the promised land.

Promised land has 2 meanings the land of canaan and heaven both. They were denied entrance into both the real land of milk and honey and the figurative one also.