Does God Answer Prayers?

[tonsofquestions]

C.S. Lewis said God always answers prayers. Sometimes the answer is no. Now, I think you’re misunderstanding nature for something that God does. A tree doesn’t fall because God gave it a push. It falls because God’s laws of nature say it will fall. A person may die for the same reason. That isn’t to say God did not know that they would die, or that the tree would fall, he knows everything, and we still have free will. But he knows the way things will go, you see.

I’ve been thinking about this more. And yes, there are some things God does not “will”, such as having a tree fall over. However, God has made the decision not to interfere with that tree. I see the tree falling over and I pray that it won’t fall(stupid, I know, but I’m just trying to use your example). If God then interferes and stops the tree from falling, God has then changed his will from not interfering with the tree to interfering with the tree. So even if God is not specifically “willing” my sick child to die, if he answered my prayer and healed my child, he would still be contradicting his previous decision to not interfere with my child. If interfering with my child’s health was the perfect thing to do, He would have done it regardless of my prayers. If not interfering was right thing to do, He would have stayed put of it regardless of my prayers, right?

 

[PJJH]

This scares me more than you realize. It should never be just about our own hide that matters. Yet this is what I keep hearing over and over again. My salvation. My personal relationship. Me, me, me.

I did say “what we need”. But since you bring it up.

It scares me to think that there may be people who believe they have an immortal soul and don’t work towards salvation. Each one of us must look to our own salvation as well as each others. I’d guess that we could probably achieve more good for others if we make it to heaven than if we choose seperation from God.

We must love God and man, it isn’t an either/or proposition.

 

[anEvilAtheist]

I’ve been thinking about this more. And yes, there are some things God does not “will”, such as having a tree fall over. However, God has made the decision not to interfere with that tree. I see the tree falling over and I pray that it won’t fall(stupid, I know, but I’m just trying to use your example). If God then interferes and stops the tree from falling, God has then changed his will from not interfering with the tree to interfering with the tree. So even if God is not specifically “willing” my sick child to die, if he answered my prayer and healed my child, he would still be contradicting his previous decision to not interfere with my child. If interfering with my child’s health was the perfect thing to do, He would have done it regardless of my prayers. If not interfering was right thing to do, He would have stayed put of it regardless of my prayers, right?

If God is omniscient, he knew exactly what each one of us would do when he created the universe. So he is not changing his mind.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I did say “what we need”. But since you bring it up.

It scares me to think that there may be people who believe they have an immortal soul and don’t work towards salvation. Each one of us must look to our own salvation as well as each others. I’d guess that we could probably achieve more good for others if we make it to heaven than if we choose seperation from God.

We must love God and man, it isn’t an either/or proposition.

God knows Moses is going to stop mass killing just like any other sane man would in his place. God knows this, yet tells Moses alone that he is wiping out all isrealites.
Moses freaks out. Begs this God to not go forward.
God does not go forward with it.

Exactly what is happening here anyway?

 

[PJJH]

But see, God knows what Moses is going to do before he does it. Libertarian free will is not compatible with God’s omniscience.

In the above situation, I think I see your point. However, you can’t use my off the cuff example to disprove freewill. I was only giving an example on how God could make a decision that is dependent on a person’s response. That does not mean that freewill does not exist. Just because He knows what you will do, doesn’t mean He forces you to do it. He does not impose His will on us, He just wants us to choose His will.

Please explain how knowing the outcome of a situation forces the participants to lose their ability to make a choice. Knowledge alone cannot preclude freewill.

 

[anEvilAtheist]

In the above situation, I think I see your point. However, you can’t use my off the cuff example to disprove freewill. I was only giving an example on how God could make a decision that is dependent on a person’s response. That does not mean that freewill does not exist. Just because He knows what you will do, doesn’t mean He forces you to do it. He does not impose His will on us, He just wants us to choose His will.

Please explain how knowing the outcome of a situation forces the participants to lose their ability to make a choice. Knowledge alone cannot preclude freewill.

I’m with you. Compatibilist free can still exist even with determinism. I think most people are uncomfortable accepting that all their actions are predetermined (even though they still freely choose them). Personally, I see even compatibilist free will as extremely problematic because when you examine it in depth you find that it’s essentially the same as no free will at all. But I don’t want to open that can of worms. I have so many other discussions going on right now that I don’t want to start another big one. I’ll try to start a thread on it at some point.

 

[TheQuestioner]

I’ve been thinking about this more. And yes, there are some things God does not “will”, such as having a tree fall over. However, God has made the decision not to interfere with that tree. I see the tree falling over and I pray that it won’t fall(stupid, I know, but I’m just trying to use your example). If God then interferes and stops the tree from falling, God has then changed his will from not interfering with the tree to interfering with the tree. So even if God is not specifically “willing” my sick child to die, if he answered my prayer and healed my child, he would still be contradicting his previous decision to not interfere with my child. If interfering with my child’s health was the perfect thing to do, He would have done it regardless of my prayers. If not interfering was right thing to do, He would have stayed put of it regardless of my prayers, right?

You seem to be assuming that God only uses one way to reach his perfect will. On the way to work there may be many roads that take you there. You could take one way but if you choose to take a detour to buy lunch (at a co-workers request) then you will have to take a different route. Does that mean you can no longer get to work? no, but now you will have to take a different route. Same with the mind of God. Yes it could be changed, because God cares for us. Does that mean the next decision is imperfect? No, just different. He will continue his plans (for that child to be in heaven with him) but in a different way. Maybe he will guild that child to become a great priest or Pope? Who knows?

 

[Palm_Tree]

my point is that it seems impossible that our prayers would matter

Yeah, I’ve become jaded regarding the concept of prayers of petition and prayers of intercession. I remember back when I was young, I would prayers of intercession every single night for every single good cause I could think of… for the hungry, for the poor, for the suffering, for the needy, for the sick, for world peace, etc, etc, etc. Yet, nowadays, when we do the prayers of the faithful during Mass, my heart isn’t into it. When people ask me to pray for them, I say that I will, but I never do. Regarding prayers of petition, I remember when I was young that every blue moon I would pray to God asking him for a big favor, and it seemed like he always granted it to me. I used to marvel at how wonderful that was that God granted all the personal favors I asked of him. But even though God always came through for me, for some reason I quit asking him for personal favors at some point.

I’m not sure exactly sure why. A big part of it was that the older I got, and the wiser I got, the more and more I started recognizing how imperfect I am, and I just started feeling that I’m not worthy to pray to God with prayers of petition and intercession (although I highly respect, for example, a girl I know who joined a convent of nuns that spends their lives praying to God for an end to abortion). If I think about it more, there are also other reasons why I became jaded regarding the concept of prayers of petition and prayers of intercession.

However, although I have become jaded regarding prayers of intercession and petition, I have become much more fired up with other forms of prayer that I wasn’t very into when I was younger… for example: nowadays I am very into prayers of thanksgiving and prayers of praise, and I am also much more interested in various other forms of prayer that I wasn’t into (or didn’t even know about) when I was younger such as contemplative prayer, meditative prayer, centering prayer, Lectio Divina, the Psalms, Ignatian contemplation of scripture, etc, etc, etc.

But, I do recognize that I need to work hard on fixing my jaded concept regarding prayers of intercession and petition. Both are major part of the Christian life according to the life and teachings of Christ, the Gospels, the New Testament, and the Church.

 

[wasmit]

I am going to try to articulate this as best as possible. Can God really answer prayers? What I mean is this.

ahjonline.com/article/PIIS0002870305006496/abstract

Abstract
Background
Intercessory prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, but claims of benefits are not supported by well-controlled clinical trials. Prior studies have not addressed whether prayer itself or knowledge/certainty that prayer is being provided may influence outcome. We evaluated whether (1) receiving intercessory prayer or (2) being certain of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with uncomplicated recovery after coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery.

Methods
Patients at 6 US hospitals were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 groups: 604 received intercessory prayer after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; 597 did not receive intercessory prayer also after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; and 601 received intercessory prayer after being informed they would receive prayer. Intercessory prayer was provided for 14 days, starting the night before CABG. The primary outcome was presence of any complication within 30 days of CABG. Secondary outcomes were any major event and mortality.

Results
In the 2 groups uncertain about receiving intercessory prayer, complications occurred in 52% (315/604) of patients who received intercessory prayer versus 51% (304/597) of those who did not (relative risk 1.02, 95% CI 0.92-1.15). Complications occurred in 59% (352/601) of patients certain of receiving intercessory prayer compared with the 52% (315/604) of those uncertain of receiving intercessory prayer (relative risk 1.14, 95% CI 1.02-1.28). Major events and 30-day mortality were similar across the 3 groups.

Conclusions
Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.

 

[wasmit]

I mentioned suffering as a separate item, not related in this case to Moses.

I’m speculating that God’s plan before Moses pleaded was “Do A if X, and do B if Y.” Moses chose Y, so God did B instead of A.

The israelites deserved death. God’s mercy is apparent in that their deaths were prevented by Moses’ petition. It’s not a matter of Moses being more powerful than God.

If God’s plan was “Do A if X, and do B if Y”, that is the same as “do B”, because God knows the future.

So, it is meaningless for God to say “Do A if X, and do B if Y”, because he knows that X will not occur.

 

[Palm_Tree]

Can God really answer prayers? God is perfect, right? And His will is perfect? So…no amount of prayer will change it, right? …

I was just reading this article that brought up similar concerns to yours:

*How does God answer prayer?

…Why do we ask God for certain things to happen? After all, God is all-knowing, right? God knows our needs and those of our community and the world. So how can people presume to ask God for something of which God is already aware? Doesn’t that attitude show a lack of trust in God? Or do we think God to be some dozing potentate who needs a nudge to consider granting a favor?

Despite those questions, intercessory prayer has been part of Christian tradition since the beginning. Just look at Jesus. It was he who told his disciples: “Ask, and it will be given to you” (Luke 11:9). In other words, God gives us what we need.** Jesus taught his disciples to pray by giving them the Lord’s Prayer, which includes petitions for daily bread, forgiveness, and protection from temptation. **The liturgy is full of intercessory prayer, and so is our personal prayer.

But why do we do it beyond the fact that we’ve always done it? I once asked a group of deacon candidates this question. They had some good answers.** Intercession promotes our concern for one another**, some said. It shows our dependence on God. It expresses our communion with God and others. Asking God for something demonstrates God’s respect for our freedom. Finally, someone said, intercession raises our human thoughts to the divine.

Intercessory prayer is all that and more. Like all prayer, intercession is turning to God, in particular for our special needs. No, God does not answer prayers exactly as we make them. But we do believe God hears our prayers and responds to them in God’s wisdom, which is always for our good. So a major part of intercessory prayer is not only asking but looking for signs of God’s response. In this way intercession is a kind of discernment of God’s will: Ask, and see what you receive.

Intercession is also an act of faith. Ultimately, asking God for things shows not a lack of trust in God but the opposite. Though we can be sure God knows what we need before we ask, by turning to God we entrust our lives to God’s guidance, come what may. **As the 18th-century French spiritual master François Fénelon once prayed, “Lord, we know not what we ought to ask of you. You alone know what we need. . . . We have no other desire than to accomplish your will. Teach us to pray! Pray yourself in us.” **
*
uscatholic.org/glad-you-asked/2008/07/how-does-god-answer-prayer

Some notes on the bolded portions from the above article:

*Jesus taught his disciples to pray by giving them the Lord’s Prayer, which includes petitions for daily bread (CCC 2828-2837), forgiveness (CCC 2838-2845), and protection from temptation (CCC 2846-2849). It also includes petitions for:
–Asking the Father that his name be made holy (CCC 2807-2815)
–Asking the Father that his Kingdom comes (CCC 2816-2821)
–Asking the Father that his Will be Done (CCC 2822-2849)
–Asking the Father to deliver us from evil (CCC 2850-2854)

*Intercessory prayer promotes our concern for one another. It expresses our communion with others.
Compare to:
CCC 2635 – Since Abraham, intercession - asking on behalf of another has been characteristic of a heart attuned to God’s mercy. In the age of the Church, Christian intercession participates in Christ’s, as an expression of the communion of saints. In intercession, he who prays looks “not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others,” even to the point of praying for those who do him harm.

*Intercessory prayer shows our dependence on God. It expresses our communion with God. It is us turning to God. It raises our human thoughts to the divine.
Compare to:
CCC 2629 – *by prayer of petition we express awareness of our relationship with God. We are creatures who are not our own beginning, not the masters of adversity, not our own last end. We are sinners who as Christians know that we have turned away from our Father. Our petition is already a turning back to him. *

*As the 18th-century French spiritual master François Fénelon once prayed, “Lord, we know not what we ought to ask of you. You alone know what we need. . . . We have no other desire than to accomplish your will. Teach us to pray! Pray yourself in us.”
Compare to:
CCC 2630 – [as St. Paul wrote in Romans 8:26] In the end…the Holy Spirit “helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us”

 

[Palm_Tree]

I read on book on prayer by a Catholic layperson (Close to the Heart by Margaret Silf). I didn’t think the book was top-notch book on prayer and so I don’t recommend it, but in one of her chapters on intercessory prayer, she brought up some good points:

–When we pray for others, we are cooperating with God in turning our prayer into action

–St Teresa of Avila reminds us that God has no hands on earth now but ours, no eyes and no limbs but ours. If we ask God to act on behalf of others, we must be willing to become the implements of that action

–Cast your mind back over the past week or so. Can you name any of the people you have been praying for? What are you actually hoping God will do for those people? Is there anyway you can at least make a start on the job yourself? Asking God to heal a person that is suffering may be asking God for a miracle that begins with a single friendly smile, a loving letter or phone call, or a generous gift of an hour out of a busy day to visit that person.

Compare to:

CCC 306 – **God is the sovereign master of his plan. But to carry it out he also makes use of his creatures’ co-operation. This use is not a sign of weakness, but rather a token of almighty God’s greatness and goodness. For God grants his creatures not only their existence, but also the dignity of acting on their own, of being causes and principles for each other, and thus of co-operating in the accomplishment of his plan. **

Also compare that to this article I just read:

*Does God Answer Our Prayers?

…Often we ponder whether God really answers our prayers. This simple parable that is derived from the Jewish Mishmash may help to answer this question.

A small village in Rural Russia was beset by drought one year and all the crops failed. The village rabbi prayed to the heavens, “Why don’t you do something about this dreadful drought?” But the heavens remained silent. So the rabbi organized a charity food drive with the neighboring villages to feed his people.

When the rains came, they came in heavy and the local river flooded, killing all the livestock. The rabbi again prayed, “Heavenly Father, my people are suffering so much, save us from this flood!” But, again, no help from God seemed forthcoming. So the rabbi lobbied the government authorities to provide financial assistance to replenish the herds lost in the deluge.

Finally, in the wake of the flood, infection and disease ran through the inhabitants of the village. The rabbi prayed once more, “Now surely God you will help us!” But the diseases ran their course. So the rabbi Marshalled and organized the able bodied in the village to care for the sick.

Months later reflecting on the tragedies of the past year, the rabbi turned to God and accused Him, “Why did you not answer the prayers of my poor villagers? Why did you not send help to them when we were beset by drought, floods and pestilence?”

After many hours of anguished entreaty, a quiet voice answered the rabbi in the depths of his heart, “Of course I sent help; I sent you!”

Yes, God … does not perform miracles and magic to solve our problems. If we are waiting for such acts, we will be sadly mistaken and disappointed. Like the rabbi in the above story, we are his “miracle” workers among men. He has given us our intelligence, talents and skills to perform his “miracles” to help others. *

catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=4194

 

[tukfryer]

I dont understand, some of you profess to be part of Gods family but dont understand that God did not change His mind. Those people at the golden image party all lost salvation or any chance of repentance. They lost eternal life they are dead by all biblical definitions. Simply because they are still walking met nothing. In that context Mosses did not save them, his intercessory plea did not save there eternal lives. If Exodus 32:7-14 is an example of successful intercessory prayer please dont bother praying for me.

I’ve already made my point but it appears no one cares you are all obsessed with the fact that the golden idol people are not dead they will live their short little lives out, then applaud Mosses for changing Gods mind. You dont make one comment about what happen to their salvation. Great bunch of teachers here.

My original post forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5277757&postcount=19

Luke 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

 

[ricmat]

If God’s plan was “Do A if X, and do B if Y”, that is the same as “do B”, because God knows the future.

So, it is meaningless for God to say “Do A if X, and do B if Y”, because he knows that X will not occur.

God can look ahead and see the future. So he knows that Y will occur. He also knows that B happened.

Knowing that something will occur in the future is not the cause of that something happening in the future.

Here in time, we have free will, our actions and decisions are not preordained.

 

[tonsofquestions]

I dont understand, some of you profess to be part of Gods family but dont understand that God did not change His mind. Those people at the golden image party all lost salvation or any chance of repentance. They lost eternal life they are dead by all biblical definitions. Simply because they are still walking met nothing. In that context Mosses did not save them, his intercessory plea did not save there eternal lives. If Exodus 32:7-14 is an example of successful intercessory prayer please dont bother praying for me.

I’ve already made my point but it appears **no one cares you are all obsessed **with the fact that the golden idol people are not dead they will live their short little lives out, then applaud Mosses for changing Gods mind. You dont make one comment about what happen to their salvation. **Great bunch of teachers here. **

My original post forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5277757&postcount=19

Luke 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

You know, virtually every (devout)Catholic I’ve met in person has been a shining example of charity and compassion. The same cannot be said for many on this site.

By the way, you seem to forget that verse 14 says “God relented in the punishment He had threatened to inflict upon His people”. Even if they were still going to be punished, it was still a different punishment then the one God had intended, so God still changed His mind, which was the real point of this whole discussion.

 

[tukfryer]

You know, virtually every (devout)Catholic I’ve met in person has been a shining example of charity and compassion. The same cannot be said for many on this site.

By the way, you seem to forget that verse 14 says “God relented in the punishment He had threatened to inflict upon His people”. Even if they were still going to be punished, it was still a different punishment then the one God had intended, so God still changed His mind, which was the real point of this whole discussion.

So true good for you,

Proverbs 9:9 Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still;
teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning.

10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

God relented but did not change the outcome. In light of that I will concede that it was Gods compassion that was drawn from Mosses plea, even though it did not change Gods judgment on the golden calf party people. Keep reading and you will notice the effect, God meets Mosses outside the camp because His presents will destroy the golden party people. This effects those that did not bow to the image. But God works around them because of Mosses plea.

Just an IMO the years that I have read a studied I have come to realize that just because you dont understand a passage or come to an apparent contradiction / conclusion as soon as you read it, you should continue to search. We all have a different amount of knowledge and understanding in our head, God knows just what that is and deals with us within that information base. Many times it comes from other people but with so many opinions today that to is a personal / choice path. Jesus said that the Spirit will lead you. Not another Mosses. The good Catholics here are drawing from the information they have I did not mean to come across disrespectful, I was just trying to broaden the view.

21 The wise in heart are called discerning,
and pleasant words promote instruction.

 

[StevieD]

But, I do recognize that I need to work hard on fixing my jaded concept regarding prayers of intercession and petition. Both are major part of the Christian life according to the life and teachings of Christ, the Gospels, the New Testament, and the Church.

I used to pray for specific good things to happen in specific situations and sometimes they did and sometimes they didn’t but then (after many years) having done some spiritual reading I felt ashamed that I always asked in prayer for good things to happen in a worldly sense and in my timescale. I then started to pray for spiritual ‘goods’ - one of the virtues. For example if worried financially, I would pray that my situation would strengthen my hope and fortitude and tried to accept that this cross had not been sent to me in a random way but to strengthen me spiritually and to atone for my sins (less purgatory - can’t be bad). It has been such a positive thing and my prayer life is now very different and more positive.