Does God bear some responsibility for our sins?

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Evan said:
Perhaps he could be thinking along these lines:

I do evil
I am a creature
God created me

I am the proximate cause of an evil act
God is the remote cause, that is, the cause of the cause of the evil act

So we can assign God the responsibility of all creation.
God created sinners, who sin.
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The argument fallaciously equivocates “cause” with “responsibility”. Responsibility normally implies blameworthiness. In this sense, it is utterly wrong to assign to God any responsibility for man’s wrongdoings. On the other hand, if the definition of responsibility does not imply blame, then nothing has been achieved by this argument except a restatement of the premises.
 
Miles_Mariae said:
The argument fallaciously equivocates “cause” with “responsibility”. Responsibility normally implies blameworthiness. In this sense, it is utterly wrong to assign to God any responsibility for man’s wrongdoings. On the other hand, if the definition of responsibility does not imply blame, then nothing has been achieved by this argument except a restatement of the premises.
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Sort of what I was saying in my 2nd post.

I can be responsible for making something (like the empire state building) but I cannot be blamed for someone jumping off the building. At most I could be held responsible for someone who accidentally fell off the building, if they were there properly (allowed and followed recommended safety procedures).

God has given us the gifts to avoid much of the suffering in the world, corperately. Not individually as we interact.
 
If any of you think that God is to blame, ask yourself this question. If you have a child and you teach that child the difference between right and wrong. If that child commits a murder, are you responsible for that murder? I don’t think so. The same logic applies. You were not the responsible for that murder. Neither is God responsible for our sins.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
mangy_dog said:
Did you approach him about his sermon? I would’ve.

You know…I’ve met a lot of pretty smart catholics on this CAF. There is nothing wrong with having a Q&A with your priest about what you know and what you hear him saying that he knows.

Sometimes priests will get wrapped around the message they are trying to convey and the wrong wording will SNAFU everything up. If you don’t bring it to his attention (afterwards) things could go from SNAFU to TARFU real quick.
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The above quote speaks volumes to me. St. John Vianney - the Curé of Ars, tried to discourage us from overdoing it…esp where it involved speaking against priests. The above quoted suggestion **is **the solid first step to take. Not only can you get Father to qualify or clarify his statement, but you’re doing it in a way that shows love and compassion for him.

It could well save your priest some future grief…so he doesn’t end up being judged guilty until proven innocent. If he isn’t open to discussion about it… well there wasn’t any harm in trying…only love.

*My multi-quote attempt failed; mangy dog’s post # 18 quoted below, blue highlights:

Maybe we should blame God for abortions also. We were created for greatness. Our own concupiscence coupled with our free will is what drives the “bad choices” train. It’s real easy to blame God for this, that and the other thing.

God creates man and woman. Lucifer entices, woman sins and man follows.

…Who told you that you were naked?..What does Adam say?
the woman you created made me do it.

God goes to the woman and what does she say? The devil made me do it.

The only one that takes responsibility is the devil. Sort of the “buck stop here” kinda thing.

Our problem is that we think we can find our identities outside of God. Or, more of the same lie from the “garden”…" surely you will not die"…and we take it hook, line and sinker.

Our fault - us alone, not God.

One thing that always fascinated me about the “fall” in the garden was how we humans have never lost that skill of what I personally refer to as “blame shifting” (same as buck passing). We’ll blame anybody but ouselves…

God asks the man ,“What is this you have done…”, but the mans answers: “The woman gave me and I ate.”
Then God asks the woman," What’s this **you **have done…",but the woman answers , “The serpent deceived me.” In the end the situation begs the question: Will the real sinner please stand up (or at least own up) ?

We still do this today…more than ever. In a similar sense, Cain is still killing his brother Abel too.

You know something…? If God had been my dear mother, and I had tried that answer with her - “The woman made me do it”, she would have snapped back, “And if the woman told you to go jump off the Golden Gate Bridge, you’d have done that too !!..Wouldn’t you…!!?”
 
I appreciate so much everyones thoughtful replies. So, what is the proper course of action here? Several have suggested speaking to Father, and so I believe that is the next best step. I would like to give him the opportunity to explain what he meant. But, then what? If he insists that God bears responsibility for our sins, do I debate him? Several who have posted made some valid analogies, but is there anything I could say that could possibly convince a preist of 45 years that he is wrong? Is what he said something that can really be classified as a bonifide “heresy”? Beyond analogies, is there anything specifically scriptural I can point out to him? Or perhaps a specific paragraph in the Catechism? I know others who have approached him about other things in the past, and he is not exactly “fatherly”. In other words, I don’t expect my discussion with him to go well. But, I will try. Beyond that, is the next step, as some have suggested, to put a call into our Cardinal?
 
Perhaps since you are responding to writing in a bulletin you could write him a letter asking him to explain further what he meant. Otherwise i would ask him if he could explain what he meant in person. You might find out he actually thinks something different than what the words say. Better not to be confrontational though and i think going over his head might not be as good as giving him the opportunity to clarify his comments.
If he does think God is somehow responsible he might be able to give an account of his thinking. Or simply being asked to clarify might give him the opportunity to get feedback which could be very helpful for himself, even if it may not be received well at the time. I think part of our journey is to think about God in different ways. Sometimes we think in the same way, but use different words, or entertain different possibilities for a time. Being friendly and respectful to him will at least help him see your viewpoint more clearly and he may be more sensitive and reflectful next time when he writes. Something he will probably appreciate, if done with respect. Good luck.
 
He Himself created man in the beginning and left him in the council of his will. If you will, you will keep the commandments and faithfully do His good pleasure. He has set before you fire and water; If you will, stretch forth your hand. Life and death are before mankind, and whichever he chooses, it will be given him. For great is the wisdom of the Lord; He is mighty in power and sees all things. His eyes are upon those who fear Him, and He Himself knows every deed of man. He has commanded no one to be ungodly, and He has given no license to sin. ~ Wisdom of Sirach 15:14-24
 
Cranch said:
I’m guessing you meant to write “equates” (or “conflates”) not “equivocates.”
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Thanks Cranch…I learned a new word - “conflates”…didn’t even know that one existed:thumbsup:

Fighting workmen’s compensation for so many years (without any success) gave me a good working knowledge of “equivocate” though; it belongs right there in the same bin as prevaricate. 🙂
 
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