Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

[guanophore]

again i think they reject the CC as the head of the body, or visible head

I should hope so! Jesus has never departed from being Head of the Church! The presence of the successor of Peter does not change that. Jesus did leave a visible authority in charge, until He should come again. How else could anyone fulfill His command to “take it to the church”?

again i think they reject the CC… or calling the the body Catholic as opposed to thosee called out ones, of which CC is part of

Catholics see not distinction between the two. All who belong to Christ are made members of His One Body, the Church.

The baptism puts one in the body, where we are then indoctrinated into His ways

Indeed, the new converts were baptized and devoted themselves to the Apostolic teachings. This changed during the Reformation.

Yet, that is not what is being sought since there’s an active struggle against being in the Body.

I don’t think so. Protestants have re-defined the meaning of “church” so that they can remain separate from the successors of the Apostles. But they consider themselves as the “body of Christ” nonetheless, and the Church affirms that they have been joined through Trinitarian baptism.

 

[Ken94]

Cherry picking happens A LOT in the Protestant and evangelical denominations. I’ve seen many take the verse about not judging one another and taking it out of context to mean supporting gay rights and gay marriage. I’ve seen many prosperity gospel teachers picking from the Old Testament to support their wealth blessing claims. Yet over look much of Jesus in the NT being against the pursuit of worldy riches. There’s also the Word of Faith Movement pick verses to support being able to “speak things into existence” and to support their claim that lack of faith is the reason for poor health and finances.

Then there’s the LDS and JW who pick and choose verses that they base their whole denomination on. Also the 7th day Adventists. That’s why I’m ever more leaning towards going to the Catholic Church

 

[Wannano]

again i think they reject the CC as the head of the body, or visible head

I should hope so! Jesus has never departed from being Head of the Church! The presence of the successor of Peter does not change that. Jesus did leave a visible authority in charge, until He should come again. How else could anyone fulfill His command to “take it to the church”?

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I have recently read that prior to the 8th century the Pope was referred to as the"Vicar of Peter." It then got changed to "Vicar of Christ. " It seems like a significant change. Do you know if that is true?

 

[guanophore]

I have recently read that prior to the 8th century the Pope was referred to as the"Vicar of Peter." It then got changed to "Vicar of Christ. " It seems like a significant change. Do you know if that is true?

I have not, but from my perspective, it would not matter, since Peter was the vicar of Christ. That being said, I do think that there have been some grossly bombastic statements made by popes about their role in the Church and on earth that would absolutely make Peter spin in the grave!

 

[jcrichton]

I don’t think so. Protestants have re-defined the meaning of “church” so that they can remain separate from the successors of the Apostles. But they consider themselves as the “body of Christ” nonetheless, and the Church affirms that they have been joined through Trinitarian baptism.

30 thousand and growing… is this a demonstration of One Body?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Cherry picking happens A LOT in the Protestant and evangelical denominations. I’ve seen many take the verse about not judging one another and taking it out of context to mean supporting gay rights and gay marriage. I’ve seen many prosperity gospel teachers picking from the Old Testament to support their wealth blessing claims. Yet over look much of Jesus in the NT being against the pursuit of worldy riches. There’s also the Word of Faith Movement pick verses to support being able to “speak things into existence” and to support their claim that lack of faith is the reason for poor health and finances.

Then there’s the LDS and JW who pick and choose verses that they base their whole denomination on. Also the 7th day Adventists. That’s why I’m ever more leaning towards going to the Catholic Church

I fully concur!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[guanophore]

is this a demonstration of One Body?

Jesus only has one Body, and all who are members of Him are members of His One Body, the Church. It is true that the unity He desires of us is violated by these “doctrinal distinctives”, but the wounds to unity cannot change the seal of baptism.

 

[jcrichton]

Yet, it is my understanding, most non-Catholics demand that anyone who received a “Catholic Baptism” be Baptized by them as “Catholics” are not even “Christians.”

Hence, that premise of the One Body only means One Body but outside of Catholicism.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[guanophore]

Yet, it is my understanding, most non-Catholics demand that anyone who received a “Catholic Baptism” be Baptized by them as “Catholics” are not even “Christians.”

Actually the most non-Catholics recognize trinitarian baptism, even of infants as valid.

For those that do no recognize infant baptism, it is not because they don’t believe Catholics are Christian, but because they espouse “believers baptism”, which means a person must be able to make a profession of faith before baptism. They also don’t believe baptism is regenerative, but that it is confessing with the mouth and believing with the heart that makes a person a Christian. So they believe there are Christians in the Catholic Church.

They believe everyone who belongs to Christ is in His one Body, but that Catholicism is just another denomination.

that premise of the One Body only means One Body but outside of Catholicism.

There is only a small number of fundamentalists that believe Catholicism is a cult (non-Christian).

They believe Catholics can be saved in spite of the CC.

 

[Wannano]

Cherry picking happens A LOT in the Protestant and evangelical denominations. I’ve seen many take the verse about not judging one another and taking it out of context to mean supporting gay rights and gay marriage. I’ve seen many prosperity gospel teachers picking from the Old Testament to support their wealth blessing claims. Yet over look much of Jesus in the NT being against the pursuit of worldy riches. There’s also the Word of Faith Movement pick verses to support being able to “speak things into existence” and to support their claim that lack of faith is the reason for poor health and finances.

Then there’s the LDS and JW who pick and choose verses that they base their whole denomination on. Also the 7th day Adventists. That’s why I’m ever more leaning towards going to the Catholic Church

There is Truth in what you present, but aren’t you also cherry picking the reasons for finding fault in the non-Catholic realm?

 

[mcq72]

But it is Jesus Who Called man to be part of His Body, the Church.

Absolutely, amongst many other callings…to His Son, to His family, to be adopted, to be holy, perfect, to be witnesses, etc

 

[mcq72]

It is about obedience and continuance; once cannot abide in the Body by rejecting the Body.

Focus, emphasis…where? Yes but I would see it more as abiding, rejecting Christ and the Holy Ghost, which hopefully we are representi g accurately.

 

[Ken94]

Not at all. I’m stating from what I’ve personally seen and found from the examples I gave. but Im not saying it’s all the churches on the Protestant side. Don’t get me wrong I know people who are non denominational like I was who are strong with The Lord. It’s just when looking at the Protestant side there’s just a lot of division and chaos. And a quick Google search on churches that support LGBTQ shows a whole big list of churches and their Anglican, and Protestant ones. It says in the word that you’ll know someone by the fruits they produce. And since I’ve been a taking a step back and looking at both sides right now, I see more bad fruits on the protestant side. I’m also not catholic, so it’s not as if I’m being biased either. My leaning is just based on what I’ve seen and found first hand.

 

[mcq72]

Is it possible to separate Jesus from His One Body, the Church?

No, you go too far.Can you seperate the body from the head, or the arm from the body.

Look i would rather say one abides in Christ and Christ in the believer. Indeed that places one in a body , a church., just would not interchange the latter in the former verse.

Christ is the center, the focal point of the body,the church, the kingdom.That’s all I am saying.

 

[mcq72]

Indeed, the new converts were baptized and devoted themselves to the Apostolic teachings. This changed during the Reformation.

Yes, some, some of Catholic Tradition ceased from being passed on.

 

[feed_me]

@guanophore @jcrichton

You didnt resolve ALL the anger then.

 

[guanophore]

Look i would rather say one abides in Christ and Christ in the believer. Indeed that places one in a body , a church., just would not interchange the latter in the former verse.

I think this is the crucial difference. Catholics believe there is only One Body (as opposed to “a body, a church”). One Body.

1 Corinthians 10:17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread.

1 Corinthians 12:12 [ One Body with Many Members ] For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.

Romans 12:5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

We are members one of another, as much as we are members of Him, so that one cannot be separated from Christ.

 

[mcq72]

think this is the crucial difference. Catholics believe there is only One Body (as opposed to “a body, a church”). One Body.

Agree just differently…yes He places into His Body, His church (did not like how i worded it with “a” body"…meant it as Him placing you in something, and that it is called a body a church)…yes it is one, as in one loaf…yet there are different congregations, even different understandings within , big word, still within, the body , the church…you may consider that a new dynamic, not sure, but the Reformation was perhaps not new except in its massiveness,

 

[guanophore]

the Reformation was perhaps not new except in its massiveness,

You are right. From the beginning there were departures from the Apostolic teaching. The abuses committed in Europe, Germany in particular, laid the groundwork for that “massive” apostasy.

 

[Nicene]

You are be quite wrong about Sacrifices:

Psa 116:17 I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call upon the name of the LORD.

Psa 107:22 And let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving, and declare his works with rejoicing.

I understand your need to believe in “it is finished” but the proper understanding of it is “it is consummated” which is covenant language which means brought to perfection. He is the fourth cup, the cup of peace of the passover which brings peace between God and man. This is a “type” of communion and a sign of Jesus:

Lev 7:11 "And this is the law of the sacrifice of peace offerings which one may offer to the LORD.
12 If he offers it for a thanksgiving, then he shall offer with the thank offering unleavened cakes mixed with oil, unleavened wafers spread with oil, and cakes of fine flour well mixed with oil.
13 With the sacrifice of his peace offerings for thanksgiving he shall bring his offering with cakes of leavened bread.
14 And of such he shall offer one cake from each offering, as an offering to the LORD; it shall belong to the priest who throws the blood of the peace offerings.

To be honest you worship who you don’t know:

20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain; and you say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship."
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him.
24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

That was Mt. Gezirim, and in Hebrews the contrast is between the OT worship at Mt Sainai:

Heb 12:18 For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire, and darkness, and gloom, and a tempest,
19 and the sound of a trumpet, and a voice whose words made the hearers entreat that no further messages be spoken to them.
20 For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.”

cont: