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Wannano
Guest
I have been wondering if Pope Francis made any statement about Billy Graham since his death. I have not found any.
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MichaelP3
Guest
Another great reply.
Many Catholics on here should follow that idea about authority they like to throw around.
Many Catholics on here should follow that idea about authority they like to throw around.
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MichaelP3
Guest
Maybe there isn’t anything.
I still have this positive idea of Pope Francis and what he would have done.
I still have this positive idea of Pope Francis and what he would have done.
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steve-b
Guest
Billy had good to his message, I don’t disagree, however,
“…Billy Graham’s simple message relied on the doctrine of eternal security. “If you died tonight do you know that you would go to heaven? If the answer is ‘no’ then you need to make sure. You need to come forward and receive Jesus and know that you are going to heaven when you die.” This is a very powerful and attractive appeal. Who would say ‘No’? Very few would refuse the gift of knowing they are going to heaven for sure. However, this doctrine is faulty, and a little common sense shows it to be a potentially disastrous teaching. If a person believes they have a ticket to heaven which they cannot lose they might do most anything and still believe they are headed to heaven. Catholics can’t offer that neat and attractive package of eternal security, but maybe we go too far in the other direction and are so concerned about not judging or the sin of presumption that we tell people just the opposite. Instead we should be able to assure people that if they have faith in Christ and are baptized and are doing the best they can to co operate with God’s grace and remain in a state of grace, then they can be sure they are on the road to heaven–they are on the right path.
Billy Graham wanted to be all things to all men, but he ended up teaching the kind of indifferentism you find in C.S.Lewis’ Mere Christianity and which is the default setting of Protestant Evangelicals–that is an ecclesiology that is not ecclesiology. For them the church–any church–is a man made institution, open to the vagaries of history and culture–endlessly adaptable and values free. In other words, “It doesn’t matter what church you go to as long as you love Jesus.” While it enabled Billy Graham to throw the net wide, it is not a message that Catholics can promote. We believe it does matter what church you belong to, and that not all denominations or religions are equal. Some are clearly more true than others, have a fuller theology and history than others and have a broader and deeper truth than others. Catholic evangelists may encourage people to encounter Christ, but they will follow that up to say that the fullest encounter of Christ is in the full communion of the Catholic Church.
Billy Graham taught a simple gospel message which, on its own, is inadequate. He would have agreed that the convert needed to go deeper into the life of the Spirit, deeper in the Sacred Scriptures and deeper into the life of the church. Unfortunately, in the present, shallow American culture one worries that many of the converts never did go any deeper, and assured of their salvation, may have gone off into the night with no more than an emotional memory of a religious experience they once had…”
From: What We Can Learn From Billy Graham | Fr. Dwight Longenecker
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Wannano
Guest
I would be surprised otherwise as well. Hopefully Cardinal Dolan’s response above is truly representative of the CC. It would be very interesting to see a Clerical response to the statements and questions steveb did raise.
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mcq72
Guest
To piggy back on “evangelists” I would say with the ocongregation one has been led to
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steve-b
Guest
I don’t think Card Dolan would disagree with Fr Longenecker that I quoted here Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist - #230 by steve-b
Ianman87:
Personally, I stay away from all the social media stuff.
My prayer, may Billy rest in peace
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pnewton
Guest
I think the title is the wrong question. It would almost have to be “no,” though that answer, and the question has nothing to do with Billy Graham. Being called to a be the evangelist he was, is not the same as being called to be separate from the Catholic Church.
This is the message of the First Corinthians 12.
This is the message of the First Corinthians 12.
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lanman87
Guest
Actually, you don’t have to have a facebook account to watch his video. It will play if you click on the link.
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rcwitness
Guest
Yes. And interestingly enough, my question is not concerned about any individual, but all individuals.
People take Billy Graham, who was a public preacher, and want to believe that just because his public message and call for people to love and accept the testimony of Jesus, His death and power of God was genuine and pressume His belief about the Lord’s Supper is a response to the Holy Spirit as well.
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guanophore
Guest
Billy Graham was working in the tradition of Apollos. A truncated Gospel is no less a Gospel. He was always clear that a convert needed to find a faith community in which to become nourished and discipled.
Surely if the CC can find Luther as a “witness to the Gospel” the same can be said of Billy Graham.
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LilyM
Guest
Sorry, but a truncated Gospel can indeed be a lesser Gospel, especially one so indifferentist as to essentially proclaim that all “faith communities” are equal. Luther was lots of things, but never indifferent on such matters.steve-b:
Billy Graham was working in the tradition of Apollos. A truncated Gospel is no less a Gospel. He was always clear that a convert needed to find a faith community in which to become nourished and discipled.
Surely if the CC can find Luther as a “witness to the Gospel” the same can be said of Billy Graham.
I am not setting out to cast aspersions on the sincerity of the late Mr Graham’s beliefs, the good he did or deny at least the possibility that a great reward awaits him. Clearly he was given great gifts - which means we need to be mindful of the parable of the talents and Our Lord’s admonition of “to whom much is given, of him shall much be expected”. He will not necessarily be held to the same standard as the average man on the street.
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jcrichton
Guest
Yes!
Here’s the proof:
Angel
Here’s the proof:
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
…or because it gives people the authority to be their own authority… remember Cain and Abel?
Maran atha!
Angel
Maran atha!
Angel
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Wannano
Guest
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jcrichton
Guest
…but that’s only part of the solution.
The greatest problem is catechesis. Sadly, it’s been my experience, that “Catholics” only become actively involved in Scriptures and the “church” when they leave the Catholic Church. It’s that prodigal son syndrome–don’t know/appreciate what you have till you leave and the vacuousness hits–I need Jesus’ Church, I need to be fully in His Body.’
Maran atha!
Angel
The greatest problem is catechesis. Sadly, it’s been my experience, that “Catholics” only become actively involved in Scriptures and the “church” when they leave the Catholic Church. It’s that prodigal son syndrome–don’t know/appreciate what you have till you leave and the vacuousness hits–I need Jesus’ Church, I need to be fully in His Body.’
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
Yet, the problem we have is “liberty.”
It is interesting that people having such understanding (Scripture is the Word of God and the Authority) dismiss Scriptures when it states that:
Christians did not need to be herded to the Body–they actually freely and joyfully came together to Worship!
Maran atha!
Angel
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mcq72
Guest
Thank you.
Again, what I really posted was that first things be first.
You must be born again before anything sacramental happens.
You must be born again before you can be in union with Peter, “catholic”, in unity, or keep any commandment beyond the first , which is to obtain eternal life , beginning with new life.
Isn’t it good news that all the things you list and love and exhort, are all possible but only thru a new beginning, a new birth, to be born again, by faith and grace ?
But i understand the wrench comes in when one needs a sacrament to be born again, even though they have obtained saving faith in Christ by grace, per evolving in CC doctrine.
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jcrichton
Guest
It seems that you are the half empty person… right?
Do you not realize that things are made clearer by editing?
The Church Teaches that a person needs to Confess their sin at least once a year; well, some take that to mean that they do not need to go to Confession but when they feel that they should.
By including the separated “brethren” as part of the Church the Teaching of the Church is not playing to those outside of the Church (there’s nothing to gain to state that non-Catholics can also be saved or are Christians); by clarifying that once a person is guided to the fullness of the Truth and still rejects/chooses to remain outside of the Catholic Church he/she loses salvation, the Church gains nothing from “hardliners” since these (as I) remain in the Church regardless of how many find the wide path as the road to Salvation.
Maran atha!
Angel
Do you not realize that things are made clearer by editing?
The Church Teaches that a person needs to Confess their sin at least once a year; well, some take that to mean that they do not need to go to Confession but when they feel that they should.
By including the separated “brethren” as part of the Church the Teaching of the Church is not playing to those outside of the Church (there’s nothing to gain to state that non-Catholics can also be saved or are Christians); by clarifying that once a person is guided to the fullness of the Truth and still rejects/chooses to remain outside of the Catholic Church he/she loses salvation, the Church gains nothing from “hardliners” since these (as I) remain in the Church regardless of how many find the wide path as the road to Salvation.
Maran atha!
Angel
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mcq72
Guest
Amen…pretty sure they did not (or did not need to) decree a “mortal” penalty for missing one gathering
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