Does God call people to be separate from Catholic Eucharist

[Wannano]

mcq72:

Not curious enough to see any Holy Spirit behind any movement in reformers. No budging on any faith and moral issues (doctrine) that reformers brought up. Mostly just shoring the lines of division at that time.

But yes, some things are better today, though not reading any posts accepting God as being behind any old reformers.

I don’t blame you for thinking that. I would think that too, if I were you. Yet I don’t think that’s a fair statement. I have posted opinion that the Holy Spirit is moving among the separated communities. I admit they have been rare though and I understand how positive things get lost in a growing pile of negative things.

I do believe that Martin Luther brought foreward valid claims.I can’t believe the Holy Spirit was behind movements that caused separation. I do believe the Holy Spirit is active among the separated 'Christian" communities. I don’t believe these communities can receive the gifts promised to the Church such as, 'to be led to ‘all truth’. I also think the Sacraments in these communities keep them a branch rather than severed and by way of divine damage control, serve the final events of salvation history. The separated Christian communities make available the Gospel to many people who’s hearts otherwise would never know Jesus.

The Church’s witness of Oneness that comes from God and the Incarnation of His Son is obstructed by this division. I do believe the psychological phenomenon I mentioned is spiritual and a root cause of division. I also know I was thoughtless and lacked charity delivering it, and for that I’m truly sorry.

I want to commend you for giving one of the most friendly and charitable posts I have seen from you. I think it is hard for you Catholics that do have a heart filled with love because it seems like other Catholics soon question your Catholicity if you appear soft toward separated brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Wannano]

But, one still has to wonder, if you have this refusal to submit to the propositions, and accepting them, why are you here?

I can only speak for myself on this question. I have been here to really find out if there is something I have been missing in my Christian walk and experience that is required to be a faithful follower of Christ, something I was not aware of. While I have learned a lot about what the Catholic faith is really about, I do not feel I am being led at this point to change anything.

 

[guanophore]

I can only speak for myself on this question. I have been here to really find out if there is something I have been missing in my Christian walk and experience that is required to be a faithful follower of Christ, something I was not aware of. While I have learned a lot about what the Catholic faith is really about, I do not feel I am being led at this point to change anything.

I appreciate your presence and participation, as I do @mcq72. I have the impression he feels the same way - very satisfied with his present community.

 

[SnowRose]

But, one still has to wonder, if you have this refusal to submit to the propositions, and accepting them, why are you here?

I’m here bc I have somewhat Catholic inlaws, and I wanted to quietly pick up on dos and don’ts to make everyone’s lives smoother. It’s not about my own faith journey, and not trying to convince anyone else. (Correct miunderstandings of what we teach, maybe, but not convince) Live and let live,or You do you.

 

[guanophore]

I’m here bc I have somewhat Catholic inlaws, and I wanted to quietly pick up on dos and don’ts to make everyone’s lives smoother. It’s not about my own faith journey,

I don’t know, SnowRose, it seems to me that learning about the faith of others who are in your life in an effort to make everyone’s lives smoother is a very charitable act of faith! It shows a person who is on a faith journey that embodies respect for others, and consideration.

 

[SnowRose]

Thank you @guanophore that brightened my day.
Charity, and the related virtues of Forbearance/Tolerance and Patience, seem to be basic building blocks in a good relationship with others and society at large.

 

[rcwitness]

From the testimony of the private revelation given to Gloria Polo:

When my mother conceived me, my soul brightened her womb. It’s a breath that God sends forth when the egg and the sperm unite. An explosion occurs, a beautiful spark and my soul brightened up and it also brightened my mother’s womb. You want to know what else I saw, brothers and sisters? Remember the huge sun, those are the open doors of heaven and that sun is the Eucharist. There is NO OTHER WAY TO HEAVEN THAN THE EUCHARIST, brothers and sisters. Memorize that. There is no other way to enter heaven than the body and blood or our Lord. There is no other way… That’s why Satan hates Catholics so much and confuses them so much. He loathes them. Because in the sanctuary are the open gates to heaven. He comes out of the heart of Christ, which lives in the sanctuaries. Now, tell me how many abandoned sanctuaries are there throughout the world? Well, if you are from another religion/faith and you live righteously according to what God has written in your heart - because God has written in the hearts of everyone - if you’ve never known Christ, when that person is dying Jesus cuddles up to that person. He cuddles up with every human being when he or she is dying. He stands at their side and he shows them, “I am your Lord.” If the dying person accepts him as Lord, immediately - I can’t explain this very well - but immediately that soul is taken to some place in the world where the Eucharist is being celebrated and that person receives the Eucharist. Because only those who eat His flesh and drink His blood can enter there. Outside of those who eat His flesh and drink His blood, no one else can enter there. Something mystical occurs, through the grace of the Catholic Church. We don’t even know all of the treasures that we have within our own church, brothers and sisters. There is a bank in heaven that administers the graces that God has placed on the Catholic Church. Because of that bank, many people who talk bad about the Catholic Church have received salvation and they end up in purgatory. There they continue to receive Eucharistic graces. I saw that with my soul.

http://www.javaemerald.com/religion/gloria_polo_testimony.html

 

[Benadam]

Thank you Wannano. Very gracious of you to say that.

 

[mcq72]

Yes, tough dialogue, sorry if I lacked charity also…appreciate your thoughts…do want to be fair…did contrast “and that time”(Luthers) and “today”.Yes I. Lumen Gentia (today) has a much more ecumenical tone.

 

[guanophore]

Lumen Gentia (today) has a much more ecumenical tone.

Progress, little by little!

 

[Wannano]

From the testimony of the private revelation given to Gloria Polo:

When my mother conceived me, my soul brightened her womb. It’s a breath that God sends forth when the egg and the sperm unite. An explosion occurs, a beautiful spark and my soul brightened up and it also brightened my mother’s womb. You want to know what else I saw, brothers and sisters? Remember the huge sun, those are the open doors of heaven and that sun is the Eucharist. There is NO OTHER WAY TO HEAVEN THAN THE EUCHARIST, brothers and sisters. Memorize that. There is no other way to enter heaven than the body and blood or our Lord. There is no other way… That’s why Satan hates Catholics so much and confuses them so much. He loathes them. Because in the sanctuary are the open gates to heaven. He comes out of the heart of Christ, which lives in the sanctuaries. Now, tell me how many abandoned sanctuaries are there throughout the world? Well, if you are from another religion/faith and you live righteously according to what God has written in your heart - because God has written in the hearts of everyone - if you’ve never known Christ, when that person is dying Jesus cuddles up to that person. He cuddles up with every human being when he or she is dying. He stands at their side and he shows them, “I am your Lord.” If the dying person accepts him as Lord, immediately - I can’t explain this very well - but immediately that soul is taken to some place in the world where the Eucharist is being celebrated and that person receives the Eucharist. Because only those who eat His flesh and drink His blood can enter there. Outside of those who eat His flesh and drink His blood, no one else can enter there. Something mystical occurs, through the grace of the Catholic Church. We don’t even know all of the treasures that we have within our own church, brothers and sisters. There is a bank in heaven that administers the graces that God has placed on the Catholic Church. Because of that bank, many people who talk bad about the Catholic Church have received salvation and they end up in purgatory. There they continue to receive Eucharistic graces. I saw that with my soul.

Testimony of Doctor Gloria Polo

I read her testimony from start to finish. Why don’t you explain in simple terms now what you think she said that is pertinent to this thread .

 

[rcwitness]

Wow! That is so cool that you read it!!

First things first, its pivate revelation! But what a testamony!

It struck me as being genuine!

Is her story true?

I believe! She went through such a conversion!

That quote was something that stuck with me. Ive never heard of that type of thing happening! A Communion at the hour of death. Though perhaps in the passing away from this world, and about to enter the Purgatory.

Takes things with a grain of salt, I know you do, and still fellowship.

She came to my parish to tell her story, and i missed it! So bummed.

 

[rcwitness]

Because Christ is able to give His flesh and blood to those who never received, but did what was just according to the grace given them.

 

[Benadam]

Because Christ is able to give His flesh and blood to those who never received, but did what was just according to the grace given them.

That might also be evidence that the Lord is calling for union to all His believers through the Eucharist. If what she saw in the womb and her interpretation of it is true, it is very powerful evidence. She was very much in a universal state of being.

 

[jcrichton]

The partial quote is from Scriptures; I attempted to demonstrate that the Apostles themselves were using the Oral Tradition even before the Written Tradition was put in place to assist them.

If a reasonable person just reads and upholds what is stated in Scriptures (rather then what is interpreted from Scriptures) that person would agree that the Oral and Written Traditions must go together since it was the Oral Tradition that was used by Jesus an His Apostles after Him… just look at the segment I quoted:

(2 this life was revealed, and we have seen it and) testify to it, and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us

testify = declare, bear witness
declare = announce, make it known, profess

The Apostles are not silent for nearly two decades; they actually are passing the Faith through the Oral Tradition (Teaching directly by word of mouth.

I did not mean to infer that you had made any of the statements (Biblical or otherwise) and I meant to expand on the issue of Oral Tradition using your quoted material as proof.

…you can still report me if you feel I have offended.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

The Word of God is the Word of God; however, God is God.

It is He Who makes His Word Bond or Life.

Here’s are two passages to demonstrate that Christ does not hold Scriptures as the Rule:

19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. (St. Matthew 16)
17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning any thing whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven. (St. Matthew 18)

Jesus does not tell His Apostles to use Scriptures as the Rule–rather, He Delegates His Authority to the Church and then tells His Disciples to seek the Church, not Scriptures, as the Rule (of engagement).

True, it seems that Jesus sometimes speaks as though Scriptures are have authority:

64 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life. (St. Matthew 6)

Some would take the above passage to mean that Jesus is indeed claiming that Scriptures are the Rule; yet, if we pay attention the text we find that: a) Jesus is not asserting that Scriptures are the Rule, b) Jesus is speaking to His Spoken Word (the New Covenant Scriptures had not been Written then), c) Jesus is speaking to His Authority: His Word is Spirit and Life–compare with His Declaration to Martha:

25 Jesus said to her: I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, although he be dead, shall live: 26 And every one that liveth, and believeth in me, shall not die for ever. Believest thou this? (St. John 11)

Sacred Writings are part of Jesus’ Teachings not the Rule given by Christ as the means for His Followers to be guided–the Apostles understood this correctly as Scriptures are held as an important fountain of Knowledge but not as the Rule/Authority Delegated by Christ:

27 And as for you, let the unction, which you have received from him, abide in you. And you have no need that any man teach you; but as his unction teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie. And as it hath taught you, abide in him. (1 St. John 2)
26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you. (St. John 14)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Luther and Hus, and Tyndale etc. are quite comparative, but of course from only this side of the fence.

Blind love does obscure reason.

Feel-good theologists claim everyone as a son/daughter of God and that there is Salvation outside of Christ.

Claims are just that.

Comparison:
Jesus - no divorce; no adultery
Luther - hey, comme ci comme sa.

Nope! Not the same thing!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

The Holy Spirit guides but “…only thru Rome and by others but only when they concur with Rome, including any reform, and that only of practice, (due to infallible reception of doctrine, by Rome only).”

Correct!

Why?

Because the deposit of Truth is Christ’s Church!

When you have an entity that creates its own norms and regulation, absent the Succession of the Apostles, it is void of a true and narrow connection to Christ’s Church.

When Luther, and you (protestants) diverged yourself from the Church you made your own “church” in your own image.

The Church is not what Christ says but what you interpret as the Church; hence, the myriads dilemma.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

But do you not see how you uphold not Scriptures but what you interpret to be what Scriptures mean?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

No ,also from “tradition”
Wow…the famous escape clause for tradtion…" ;
“Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.” John 21:25
Notice it does not say “teach”.
The antidote:
“For as much as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,…since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,…That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.”…Luke 1

Yet, you do not demonstrate that Scripture say what you think it says; it is the Protestant “proof-text” to claim that if it is not found in Scriptures…

Yet, Scriptures never say such thing.

Rather, time and again we find holes in the Written Scriptures as the Written Tradition do not encapsulate all that is Revealed, Unfolded and Taught!

For such view to be right we must argue, by default, that the Apostles stood silent for several decades after Jesus’ Ascension and only after the Evangelists, St. Paul, St. John, St. James and St. Peter took it upon themselves to write the New Covenant’s Sacred Writings did the Church then began her Mission.

Yet, we know from Scriptures that Jesus’ Command was not to wait decades till the Sacred Writings took shape but that they were to:

19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. (St. Matthew 28)

The Written Word comes second not first!

The Apostles did not limit themselves to rereading the Old Covenant’s Sacred Writings; they actually, guided by the Holy Spirit, Unfolded the Good News (Gospel) and, when it was necessary, put into ink the New Covenant’s Sacred Writings–these Writings not as the only means of promoting the Faith but as a Witness and Record of what God Revealed and Unfolded as the Church took shape!

Maran atha!

Angel