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mcq72
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???..
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Benadam
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I don’t believe Scriptures were much help guarding the faith. How do scriptures guard the true faith?
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mcq72
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Scriptures are the true faith, and have been for a long time.
But look , of course I agreed and said amen to fathers and that meaning the church and all that has been entrusted to her. Of course faith comes from hearing the Word of God, and that being oral,tradition and scriptures, and the need for a “preacher”
And if tradition and scriptures are both God breathed in CC, that they can not contradict, then both can rule even guard true faith, so not sure how as a C u can say scripture can not guard true faith…in fact I would say that is mostly how early fathers defended the faith, thru proper interpretation of scriptures and using it as sword against darkness and error (Athanasius comes to mind).
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Benadam
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Scriptures are the True Faith in as much as the one reading them is. I can’t deny when heresies erupted the Scriptures are the first resort…
Scripture can lead one out of the worst of storms, be the source of profound and uplifting prayer, or it can be nothing more than ink on paper.
When I say things like in that previous post I’m thinking of what scripture can be reduced to.
It is God breathed but you have to be able to inhale the Holy Spirit because Scripture doesn’t exhale.
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rcwitness
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I agree. So I have asked you many times… Does Scripture say a valid Christian marriage can be dissolved and so that couple can remarry in good faith???
You see??? By answering this question, you must speak on behalf of Jesus!! And if you do interpret this question for believing Christians as a pastor, you are claiming authority.
The Catholic Church at least owns up to that! She says “yes, we interpret this question, by the authority invested in us.”
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Wannano
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That is a hard good question. By the same token do the Scriptures teach that something called an Anullment can be obtained in order to separate a man and wife who have given themselves to each other in marriage so that they are free to marry again?mcq72:
I agree. So I have asked you many times… Does Scripture say a valid Christian marriage can be dissolved and so that couple can remarry in good faith???
You see??? By answering this question, you must speak on behalf of Jesus!! And if you do interpret this question for believing Christians as a pastor, you are claiming authority. C
The Catholic Church at least owns up to that! She says “yes, we interpret this question, by the authority invested in us.”
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Wannano
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Yet I have never in my lifetime heard a speaker read from, quote or recite any Scripture while inhaling!Scriptures are the true faith, and have been for a long time.
It is God breathed but you have to be able to inhale the Holy Spirit because Scripture doesn’t exhale.
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rcwitness
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By interpreting (porneia) as an unlawful (against Christian law) union, yes. Porneia can, and should be divorced.
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Wannano
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I just read a defintion of porniea as “any sexual act outside of marriage.” Is that a good definition?
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rcwitness
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I think so. generally defining, yes.rcwitness:
I just read a defintion of porniea as “any sexual act outside of marriage.” Is that a good definition?
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Wannano
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Is this the teaching of the CC?
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Benadam
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I think Jesus taught it when He said 'except in cases of porneia" Forgot to say it is the basis for annulments.
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rcwitness
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Yes it is…
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mcq72
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Did not know that “teachers” have no value if they are not equally God breathed to the Scripture they would proclaim.
I do have "teachers"in the equation .
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Wannano
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I somehow had the idea that annulments were the determination that a marriage was not valid when it was performed and that therefore it never existed. Never realized it was granted because one partner was unfaithful during the marriage.
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Wannano
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I have to find some time to do some studying then because I never understood that the CC teaches that divorce is an acceptable practice even in a case of unfaithfulness.
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rcwitness
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It is not granted due to unfaithfulness toward a spouse. It is granted if the Sacrament was not conferred. If it was conferred (and consumated), it can never be granted by anyone for any reason.Benadam:
I somehow had the idea that annulments were the determination that a marriage was not valid when it was performed and that therefore it never existed. Never realized it was granted because one partner was unfaithful during the marriage.
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Wannano
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It seems like the most understandable statement for me would be: Catholics may civilly divorce in the case of porniea but in order to be free to remarry an annulment must be obtained.Wannano:
It is not granted due to unfaithfulness toward a spouse. It is granted if the Sacrament was not conferred. If it was conferred (and consumated), it can never be granted by anyone for any reason.Benadam:
I somehow had the idea that annulments were the determination that a marriage was not valid when it was performed and that therefore it never existed. Never realized it was granted because one partner was unfaithful during the marriage.
Although I should add, if they do get remarried without an annulment, they can still live a life of faith being involved in the activity of the church as long as they do not receive the Eucharist. Is that correct?
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Benadam
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rcwitness:
It seems like the most understandable statement for me would be: Catholics may civilly divorce in the case of porniea but in order to be free to remarry an annulment must be obtained.Wannano:
It is not granted due to unfaithfulness toward a spouse. It is granted if the Sacrament was not conferred. If it was conferred (and consumated), it can never be granted by anyone for any reason.Benadam:
I somehow had the idea that annulments were the determination that a marriage was not valid when it was performed and that therefore it never existed. Never realized it was granted because one partner was unfaithful during the marriage.
Although I should add, if they do get remarried without an annulment, they can still live a life of faith being involved in the activity of the church as long as they do not receive the Eucharist. Is that correct?
In this passage Jesus, after teaching how man can’t put asunder what God has joined seems to make an exception for adultery… That would be a big so what back then. They already did that. He isn’t contradicting His teaching about the marital bond. What God joins isn’t a couple who may look married but are really in a long term relationship. Jesus didn’t comment on it because those can be complicated situations that there no general or universal solution for. They have to be taken individually. Not that the couple must separate but tprobably should because they are fornicating and that requires a solution.
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mcq72
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I thought it still could be if any false pretenses existed before consumation
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