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SnowRose
Guest
I’ll just leave this sitting here, to prove that you consider an abused partner sinful. Thank you for your time.
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rcwitness
Guest
If that marriage was a Christian marriage, then the Catholic Church does not have the power to dissolve the marriage. A civil divorce is possible.
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Alex337
Guest
Yeah, I know. I’m glad my church doesn’t follow that interpretation of the teaching. It would be hideous to be trapped in such a marriage, even if not legally and only in the eyes of the Church.
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rcwitness
Guest
That’s what the Catholic Church professes as Jesus’ Teaching. We font make it up according to our flesh and blood knowledge.
Paul specifically addresses this in 1 Corinthians 7
Paul specifically addresses this in 1 Corinthians 7
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Alex337
Guest
Yes, and I’m glad that understanding of that teaching works for you.
It’s not how everyone understands it and for many abused people it would be an obstacle between them and God. I personally don’t believe God would do such and so I follow a different understanding of it.
It’s not how everyone understands it and for many abused people it would be an obstacle between them and God. I personally don’t believe God would do such and so I follow a different understanding of it.
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rcwitness
Guest
1 Corinthians 7
To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband)—and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband)—and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
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rcwitness
Guest
I don’t think you understand what I’m saying.
The Church does not Teach that one cannot civilly divorce an abusive spouse!
The Church does not Teach that one cannot civilly divorce an abusive spouse!
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Alex337
Guest
Okay; would they then be divorced in the eyes of the Church too?
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rcwitness
Guest
No, a valid Christian marriage cannot be divorced in God’s eyes. They are bound by God until death.
But the Church respects the civil divorce, in cases where it’s the only means to ensure safety and health of the family members.
The point, is another marriage is absolutely prohibited by Jesus. Scripture is clear about this. The denominations mostly reject Jesus’s Teaching about this.
If you hate this Teaching, and it is from Jesus, do you still love Jesus?
But the Church respects the civil divorce, in cases where it’s the only means to ensure safety and health of the family members.
The point, is another marriage is absolutely prohibited by Jesus. Scripture is clear about this. The denominations mostly reject Jesus’s Teaching about this.
If you hate this Teaching, and it is from Jesus, do you still love Jesus?
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Alex337
Guest
Yeah, I don’t think God calls for people to remain married to abusers. I don’t hate the teaching, I disagree with your interpretation of it 
looks like there is wiggle room in the translation for God not to condone abusers, so I figure He doesn’t: because he’s not a monster.
looks like there is wiggle room in the translation for God not to condone abusers, so I figure He doesn’t: because he’s not a monster.
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rcwitness
Guest
You are missing the very important relation of a marriage Covenant and the Covenant between God and man through Jesus Christ.
Separation from an abuser can be justified. Remarriage of a Christian cannot.
Does Jesus divorce and remarry His Church when members commit sin? Or does He allow reconciliation up to the hour of our death?
This is something the “remarriage camp” does not understand. Marriage between two Christians is a covenant before the Lord, and relying on the love from above. This love has no conditions.
Do you believe that marriage vows should contain conditions of love? “I promise to love you for the rest of my life, unless you are immoral, and I will remarry someone better.”
Separation from an abuser can be justified. Remarriage of a Christian cannot.
Does Jesus divorce and remarry His Church when members commit sin? Or does He allow reconciliation up to the hour of our death?
This is something the “remarriage camp” does not understand. Marriage between two Christians is a covenant before the Lord, and relying on the love from above. This love has no conditions.
Do you believe that marriage vows should contain conditions of love? “I promise to love you for the rest of my life, unless you are immoral, and I will remarry someone better.”
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Alex337
Guest
You are seriously suggesting we hope abusers reconcile?
I think abusers never actually made marriage vows, or at least broke them so thoroughly that they have exiled themselves from that covenant and their victim is free. God wouldn’t force them to remain with someone so false.
I think abusers never actually made marriage vows, or at least broke them so thoroughly that they have exiled themselves from that covenant and their victim is free. God wouldn’t force them to remain with someone so false.
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rcwitness
Guest
Why does St Paul tell us the opposite?
1 Corinthians 7
To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband 11 (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband)—and that the husband should not divorce his wife… A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. If the husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
Romans 7
Do you not know, brethren—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only during his life? 2 Thus a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives; but if her husband dies she is discharged from the law concerning the husband. 3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
You are clearly choosing your own understanding and thinking, instead of accepting what Jesus Taught. Even the Apostles were surprised at His Teaching! They didn’t know that He was raising marriage to a Sacrament and mirroring His own love for the Church.
1 Corinthians 7
To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband 11 (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband)—and that the husband should not divorce his wife… A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. If the husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
Romans 7
Do you not know, brethren—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only during his life? 2 Thus a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives; but if her husband dies she is discharged from the law concerning the husband. 3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
You are clearly choosing your own understanding and thinking, instead of accepting what Jesus Taught. Even the Apostles were surprised at His Teaching! They didn’t know that He was raising marriage to a Sacrament and mirroring His own love for the Church.
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Alex337
Guest
Because Paul is fallible.
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rcwitness
Guest
Are you really saying those passages of Scripture are fallible?
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Alex337
Guest
I think that’s far better than believing God wants people to remain with their abusers.
But then I could also see the argument that the man she married died when he first chose to hit her or the children. Or she died if she was the abuser. That would make more sense than an abuser endorsing God too.
But then I could also see the argument that the man she married died when he first chose to hit her or the children. Or she died if she was the abuser. That would make more sense than an abuser endorsing God too.
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jcrichton
Guest
J
jcrichton
Guest
When we do not abide in Christ (not just claim Him as in St. Matthew 7:2123) anger, confusion, ego, desolation, and even happiness can work against us–we become our own worst enemies.
It is by submitting to Christ that we can overcome:
Angel
It is by submitting to Christ that we can overcome:
Maran atha!
Angel
J
jcrichton
Guest
Yet, when the “different understandings” turn to different Gospel it is not the same Body!
Maran atha!
Angel
J
jcrichton
Guest
The problem with this summation is that it ignores what has been brought up; organizations that promote and/or support the culture of death claim to be representing Christ as part of that “conglomerate” of churches of Christ.
It cannot be that Christ Sent the Holy Spirit to create bodies that obey social and political tenets of “Christian faith.”
The second any person/group rejects Apostolic Succession they have removed themselves from the Body of Christ, the Church.
The second any person/group redefine Christian Doctrine which negates Apostolic Teaching (which includes both the Oral and Written Tradition) they negate the One Body of Christ–the “body” of Christ has been reinvented in the image of the respective creator.
Maran atha!
Angel
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