Does God Cut Slack?

[JRKH]

I understand this situation. However, some of my mortal sins only take maybe a few minutes, maybe less time. After that time, I usually feel pretty bad and desperately want to get to confession and back in a state of grace. During the time in between sinning and receiving absolution, I am still in a state of mortal sin, but I would not say that the thoughts running through my mind are “I have done what I have done and do NOT repent.”

But there’s no doubt that I’m still in a state of mortal sin because I sinned and have not been granted absolution and, for example, could not receive the Eucharist. So, if I were to die in such a state, is that a damning state?

There is a provision in Church teaching that says if you repent and commit to going to confession as the earliest reasonable opportunity, but die before getting to confession, then the intent is sufficient to forgive the mortal sin.

Peace
James

 

[funion987]

There is a provision in Church teaching that says if you repent and commit to going to confession as the earliest reasonable opportunity, but die before getting to confession, then the intent is sufficient to forgive the mortal sin.

Peace
James

Would you be able to point to that provision? I’d greatly appreciate it.

 

[JRKH]

Would you be able to point to that provision? I’d greatly appreciate it.

I am sorry but I was unable to find it. Perhaps another can help us out here.
If not, ask your pastor.

Peace
James

 

[Julia_Mae]

I am sorry but I was unable to find it. Perhaps another can help us out here.
If not, ask your pastor.

Peace
James

Or he can ask the question here in the Apologists forum. I’d be surprised if it hasn’t been asked and answered already more than once. It’s a common question.

 

[Mustang1971]

Hope this link helps!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=14932

 

[Julia_Mae]

Hope this link helps!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=14932

Mustang! Aren’t you a blessing to have around! Yes, you are. Exactly what we needed.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Thank you every one for your comments.

What I’m getting at is suppose an otherwise good Catholic commits a mortal sin. Let’s not get off on a tangent about “full consent of the will” discussions, but say the person commits a mortal sin and dies.

Perhaps I’m thinking like a human, but if it were me making the decision, I might say “well, you’ve been a good person over all; come on in.” Do you think God might exercise the same discretion?

 

[JRKH]

Thank you every one for your comments.

What I’m getting at is suppose an otherwise good Catholic commits a mortal sin. Let’s not get off on a tangent about “full consent of the will” discussions, but say the person commits a mortal sin and dies.

Full consent of the Will is not a Tangent…It is a fundamental part of what IS a mortal sin. The two things simply cannot be separated.

Perhaps I’m thinking like a human, but if it were me making the decision, I might say “well, you’ve been a good person over all; come on in.” Do you think God might exercise the same discretion?

You are indeed thinking like a human. We can hardly think otherwise. As far as God’s discretion goes, it will depend upon the person’s level of repentance or lack thereof.

But I don’t think that this is the basic problem here…The problem lies more in your understanding of sin and in particular “Mortal sin”. And this is a common problem.
We too often think of sin in a legal or “criminal” sense. In our justice system a person who lives a very good life but then commits a serious crime might be shown great leniency in spite of the seriousness of the crime. BUT…
If this same person comes in to court totally unrepentant of the crime, offering justfication for their criminal actions instead of repentance, declaring the judge and jury be without power over him and otherwise rejecting the courts jurisdiction or even that they had sinned at all, and it is highly unlikely that the Judge or the Jury is going to be lenient but rather will inflict the maximum penalty allowable.
What determines the severity of the punishment is not the crime itself, but the attitude of the accused. Come before the court in sincere repentance and the court may be lenient. Come before the court unrepentant and defiant and the court will not be lenient.

Mortal sin is the same…It is less about some act than it is about attitude. Mortal sin is a spiritual position where one knowingly places themselves outside of God’s protection by rejecting God’s jurisdiction…
In such a case, if one dies with even one unrepentant Mortal Sin on their soul…God will have no choice but to impose the maximum sentence…because the soul itself will desire it and embrace it, rejecting God’s mercy.

Peace
James

 

[Luvtosew]

I think the fact that God gives us each a lifetime to repent of our sins and spends a lifetime trying to teach us how awful sin is and the necessity of avoiding it IS Him cutting us some slack.

good answer, and we wonder why some live longer than others. ever hear only the good die young (being silly)

repent while you can.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Thank you every one for your comments.

What I’m getting at is suppose an otherwise good Catholic commits a mortal sin. Let’s not get off on a tangent about “full consent of the will” discussions, but say the person commits a mortal sin and dies.

Perhaps I’m thinking like a human, but if it were me making the decision, I might say “well, you’ve been a good person over all; come on in.” Do you think God might exercise the same discretion?

Well, if that’s the case, what happens to a person who has lived an evil life but then truly repents and lives his last few years in faith, in prayer, and in doing good? Let’s suppose he even dies a martyr’s death. Does God say to him, “Well, you’ve been an evil person over all; to Hell with you”?

If you want your system to be fair, that would have to be the case.

It isn’t a matter of our deeds being weighed on scales and you’re heavier on the good side than the bad side. It’s about *what kind of person you are when you leave this world. *If, at that point, you have rejected God and and continue to reject Him by your refusal to repent, you have chosen Hell, for that’s what Hell is: rejection of God.

 

[JRKH]

Well, if that’s the case, what happens to a person who has lived an evil life but then truly repents and lives his last few years in faith, in prayer, and in doing good? Let’s suppose he even dies a martyr’s death. Does God say to him, “Well, you’ve been an evil person over all; to Hell with you”?

If you want your system to be fair, that would have to be the case.

It isn’t a matter of our deeds being weighed on scales and you’re heavier on the good side than the bad side. It’s about *what kind of person you are when you leave this world. *If, at that point, you have rejected God and and continue to reject Him by your refusal to repent, you have chosen Hell, for that’s what Hell is: rejection of God.

Great Post…

Peace
James

 

[Julia_Mae]

Thank you every one for your comments.

What I’m getting at is suppose an otherwise good Catholic commits a mortal sin. Let’s not get off on a tangent about “full consent of the will” discussions, but say the person commits a mortal sin and dies.

Perhaps I’m thinking like a human, but if it were me making the decision, I might say “well, you’ve been a good person over all; come on in.” Do you think God might exercise the same discretion?

yes

 

[Buck_Crosswhite]

Thank you every one for your comments.

What I’m getting at is suppose an otherwise good Catholic commits a mortal sin. Let’s not get off on a tangent about “full consent of the will” discussions, but say the person commits a mortal sin and dies.

Perhaps I’m thinking like a human, but if it were me making the decision, I might say “well, you’ve been a good person over all; come on in.” Do you think God might exercise the same discretion?

Does God Cut Slack???
You mean, “Is God merciful?” The answer is of course.

In your scenario of an otherwise good person committing a mortal sin and then dying, of course he’s damned.
You seem to think that people don’t judge themselves. When an unrepentant sinner stands before God he sends himself to Hell.

 

[twoangels]

In a strictly by-the-book sense, if a person dies in the state of mortal sin, he/she goes to Hell.

But in one’s final judgement, might God assess a person’s overall life and perhaps exercise some discretion? Could He say “Well, you committed one or two moral sins in your life that you never received absolution for, but all-in-all you were basically a good person so I’ll send you to Purgatory instead.”

After all, God has the final say-so. Might He possibly “commute your sentence?”

The only unforgiveable sin what is referred to as “blaspheming the Holy Spirit.” To be saved, the Holy Spirit must dwell in you. We receive the Holy Spirit at Baptism. That said, we’re like vessels filled with lots of dirt and sand which is sin. Our entire lives as Catholic is about emptying our souls of this sin and receiving the Sacraments. If we are to merely stop sinning without the Sacraments, we end up feeling empty and unfulfilled. Its a terrible feeling and we honestly cannot bear it on our own. This is why we cannot save ourselves. We need Christ, we need scantifying grace. So we go to the Sacraments regularly as we empty our souls of sin and strive to fill ourselves with grace. If we do this diligently, we should see personal growth in holiness. The saints are our greatest witness to the effects of this scantifying grace. They show us the path where extraordinary acts of virtue become possible and they show us ultimately our potential. It is important to recognize that sin cannot enter Heaven, so so long as we hold any attachment to sin, we cannot enter Heaven for we will clean to it. Purgatory is simply finishing the process after we death. We find ourselves in Heaven only once we have completely rejected all sin.

A mortal sin is when the person completely rejects God and thus of all scantifying grace. If a person dies in a state of total rejection of God and does not have a change of heart (which we call repentance) that person ultimately refuses God and thus refuses Heaven. That person might think they want Heaven, but they don’t. Their heart is invested in sin.

I think the reason you’re having a difficult time understanding this is because you’re understanding of what sin is is incomplete. You’re thinking of it was merely an external law. You’re not thinking of the behaviors as expressing what is inwardly taking place in the person. You also seem to be confusing grave sins with mortal sins.

A person can in fact be an atheist all their life and have a very last minute unspoken conversion while on their death beds that allows God to enter into their souls. As such, there is always room for hope. When it comes to the last rites, we are praying and offering the sacrament to try to push toward that conversion while immediately offering scantifying grace. It is like pouring water over the lips of a person who is dehydrated. We can’t make the person drink, but we are assisting them and working toward helping them become hydrated. When we pray for the deceased we are working to help the souls in Pugatory let go of even the remotest attachment to their sins. We’re asking for grace to be poured down on them. Our prayers may be encouraging them on their journey.

Anyway, I would suggest reading CS Lewis’ “The Great Divorce” as well as his book “Mere Christianity.” They may help clear up your confusion.

 

[Bix]

Does God cut slack?
Yes, DEFINITELY

 

[Lost_Sheep]

The only unforgiveable sin what is referred to as “blaspheming the Holy Spirit.”

And what exactly is that? An example, please.

A mortal sin is when the person completely rejects God and thus of all scantifying grace. If a person dies in a state of total rejection of God and does not have a change of heart (which we call repentance) that person ultimately refuses God and thus refuses Heaven. That person might think they want Heaven, but they don’t. Their heart is invested in sin.

I still have a problem with the notion that one completely rejects God because one sins [read: succumbs to his/her human frailties]. I do not understand why it must be an all-or-nothing proposition. We sin; it happens. That does not necessarily mean we have 100% rejected Him.

I think the reason you’re having a difficult time understanding this is because you’re understanding of what sin is is incomplete. You’re thinking of it was merely an external law. You’re not thinking of the behaviors as expressing what is inwardly taking place in the person. You also seem to be confusing grave sins with mortal sins.

Again, can you explain this in more detail.

A person can in fact be an atheist all their life and have a very last minute unspoken conversion while on their death beds that allows God to enter into their souls.

Using this logic, I could sin as much as I want and simply repent on my death bed and I’d be Good to Go. Right?

As such, there is always room for hope. When it comes to the last rites, we are praying and offering the sacrament to try to push toward that conversion while immediately offering scantifying grace. It is like pouring water over the lips of a person who is dehydrated. We can’t make the person drink, but we are assisting them and working toward helping them become hydrated. When we pray for the deceased we are working to help the souls in Pugatory let go of even the remotest attachment to their sins. We’re asking for grace to be poured down on them. Our prayers may be encouraging them on their journey.

Assuming, of course, they are in Purgatory. If they are in Heaven, they don’t need our prayers and if they are in Hell, then our prayers are a wasted effort.

Anyway, I would suggest reading CS Lewis’ “The Great Divorce” as well as his book “Mere Christianity.” They may help clear up your confusion.

Thanks.

 

[JRKH]

And what exactly is that? An example, please.

The way I understand this is that blaspheming the Holy spirit IS rejecting God.
People who reject God will take His name in vain, mock Him etc…

I still have a problem with the notion that one completely rejects God because one sins [read: succumbs to his/her human frailties]. I do not understand why it must be an all-or-nothing proposition. We sin; it happens. That does not necessarily mean we have 100% rejected Him.

We can separate venial sin and Mortal sin here. Venial sin is what you describe…one succumbs to human frailties. Mortal sin on the other hand is quite different. The three requirements means that one doe snot “succumb” but willingly “chooses” and in so choosing - they are rejecting God.

I think the reason you’re having a difficult time understanding this is because you’re understanding of what sin is is incomplete. You’re thinking of it was merely an external law. You’re not thinking of the behaviors as expressing what is inwardly taking place in the person. You also seem to be confusing grave sins with mortal sins.

Again, can you explain this in more detail.

Sin originates in the heart. Consider this from Matthew 15:
17 Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and so passes on? 18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a man. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."
Sin originates inside us and we are defiled by what we harbor inside.
We can sin in minor fashions (venial sin) due to our human weakness or because we have not yet overcome some sinful “reactions” or habits. Mortal sin is another matter. Again, I refer you to the three requirements…Grave matter, full knowledge and free consent of the will.
There is no such thing as an accidental Mortal sin…

Let’s consider the love relationship.
You meet and fall madly and forever in Love with another. They are the world to you and you would do whatever you could to please them. You intend to dedicate the rest of your life to loving them and pleasing them and building a life together.
Now this love does not prevent you form occasionally, and accidentally hurting them or doing something that displeases them - BUT - given the love you profess to feel for them, would you ever, under any circumstances intentionally and deliberately do something that you know would wound them deeply and possibly cause them to leave you forever???
Such should be our relationship with God.

Using this logic, I could sin as much as I want and simply repent on my death bed and I’d be Good to Go. Right?

If the repentance is sincere…but after a lifetime of sin, this is highly unlikely…by that time one has built up such a resistance to grace and to God’s mercy that it is almost a certainty that any deathbed “repentance” would be insincere…
So - while one cannot discount a deathbed conversion, one must not “count on it” either.

Assuming, of course, they are in Purgatory. If they are in Heaven, they don’t need our prayers and if they are in Hell, then our prayers are a wasted effort.

Prayer is never wasted effort. God will always use our prayers to do good.
If those we pray for are in heaven, they will use those prayers to help us, and thus the grace comes back to us, or to help others, and we receive grace for that. If they are in hell, the prayer received in heaven will be used to help others here on earth. No prayer is ever wasted.

Peace
James

 

[Lost_Sheep]

The only unforgiveable sin what is referred to as “blaspheming the Holy Spirit.”

And what exactly is that?

The way I understand this is that blaspheming the Holy spirit IS rejecting God.
People who reject God will take His name in vain, mock Him etc…

Then that confirms it. I’m a lost cause.

Let’s consider the love relationship.
You meet and fall madly and forever in Love with another. They are the world to you and you would do whatever you could to please them. You intend to dedicate the rest of your life to loving them and pleasing them and building a life together.
Now this love does not prevent you form occasionally, and accidentally hurting them or doing something that displeases them - BUT - given the love you profess to feel for them, would you ever, under any circumstances intentionally and deliberately do something that you know would wound them deeply and possibly cause them to leave you forever???
Such should be our relationship with God.

If you do the one you love wrong, you know about it almost instantly. God is not quite so forthcoming. God does not give a lot of “feedback”. This leaves you wondering about where you stand with Him.

Prayer is never wasted effort.

I would beg to differ with you; at least in my experience. A prayer and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee at 7-Eleven.

God will always use our prayers to do good.
If those we pray for are in heaven, they will use those prayers to help us, and thus the grace comes back to us, or to help others, and we receive grace for that. If they are in hell, the prayer received in heaven will be used to help others here on earth. No prayer is ever wasted.

Then I’ve got a really good deal for you on this bridge in Brooklyn.

 

[JRKH]

Then that confirms it. I’m a lost cause.

As you wish…

If you do the one you love wrong, you know about it almost instantly. God is not quite so forthcoming. God does not give a lot of “feedback”. This leaves you wondering about where you stand with Him.

If you loved God you will know almost instantly as well. Just knowing what Love is and what God, our Loving father wishes from and for us is sufficient to learn and to grow and to discover, ever more fully, His Love in our Lives.

I would beg to differ with you; at least in my experience. A prayer and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee at 7-Eleven.

I have had a vastly different experience…But then I Love the Lord my God. Not well enough yet, but I am working on it.

God waits for you my friend. It is up to you to decide…
Love or Hate?
Heaven or Hell?

Ball is in your court…

Peace
James

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Thank you all for your insights. As some of you who have followed my posts know, I am having a really difficult time these past few years with my so-called faith. As far as God’s “love” is concerned, I’m just not feeling it.

I sincerely think that God has my number; He has singled me out and is guiding my life such that it’s one disappointment after another. I haven’t been happy in a long time. The events of my life have made it so.

“With God all things are possible” and “Ask and you shall receive”. For me, at least, God seems to have reneged on His promise.