Does God exist?

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seeker777 said:
The problem is that I could fill in every line that you wrote with some made up God that I just created and claim the same ’ proofs’ that your throwing my way.

You deny the reality of other peoples Gods and insist that yours is real.

We are at an impasse.
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What I say are NOT PROOFS! I can’t dispense PROOFS, and don’t (and can’t) claim to do so.

YOU think that I’m presenting “suggestions”, or “hints”, as PROOFS. That is YOUR misunderstanding.

Only God proves anything about God. That actual proof comes through private revelation from God about God which can be confirmed against the public revelation of the Church via the Magisterium.

I don’t deny the existence of other people’s “gods”. I deny that other people’s gods are God!

Other people’s gods are “demon/angel masks”. They lead them (usually) away from the actual God, and sometimes (unusually) toward the actual God.

The question is why do you propose that Zeus is the same as God, when you don’t believe in either? 🙂
 
CatsAndDogs said:
I don’t deny the existence of other people’s “gods”. I deny that other people’s gods are God!
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They too likely deny that your God is God. I wonder whose right or if anyone is right?

I can’t imagine faith helping anyone, if it turns out that people chose the wrong God to worship.

🤷
 
seeker777 said:
They too likely deny that your God is God. I wonder whose right or if anyone is right?
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I’m right, because I agree with the Church.

You’re in no position to declare anyone as being right, wrong, or otherwise, as you’ve explicitly said.

Since you consider ALL “God-stuff” as nonsense, everyone is wrong except you. 🙂
I can’t imagine faith helping anyone, if it turns out that people chose the wrong God to worship.
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Once again, one can’t choose the wrong God, as there is only one God.

One CAN choose the wrong “god” though, as you have. You make yourself a god, as well as various other things, and that WILL indeed not help you in the least, except as a possible “irritant” which MIGHT drive you toward God.

Faith is simply holding a belief in hope through time. You do it all the time, or every moment you’d expect the world to dissolve under your feet, and/or your feet to dissolve into the earth.

Faith is what humans do. How many words do we have to define for you to help you become more than an incredible joke as a representative of some segment of humanity?

Are all atheists as dense and uneducated?
 
Seeker

Having pointed to parallels between the life of Jesus and the supposed life of Osiris, what is your point? It does not suffice to say that there are parallels. You must have a reason why you are pointing them out.

I could point out parallels between the life of Socrates and Jesus:
  1. They both were searchers for the truth.
  2. They both were tried, found guilty, and executed.
3.Neither of them resisted his execution.
  1. They both had “disciples” who immortalized them. (Plato and Xenephon: the Four Evangelists)
  2. They both were guided by “Spirits.” (Jesus and the Holy Spirit:
    Socrates and his Daemon).
  3. Neither of them wrote books.
Etc. Etc. (See Joseph Priestly’s book on Socrates and Jesus).

Now what is the point of drawing such parallels? What have I proven? Have I proven that Jesus was invented by a bunch of con artists as a heroic “copy” of Socrates? I don’t think so. Anyone who has read the Gospels knows that whatever else the evangelists were, it is hard to swallow the notion that they invented Jesus, or that they went into the history of a foreign culture to find a heroic figure they could use to fake the life of Jesus.

What have you proven by drawing parallels between the supposed life of Osiris and the life of Jesus, who really **did **live?

What is your point?

Thank you.
 
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seeker777 said:
If you follow the following link, you can see 42 similarities between Horus and Christ. Horus is the son of Osiris. Here’s the first 12…
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Now I wonder, if you - having studied these similarities so intensively - thought about the immense distinctions between this “similarities” that by no means could ever be compared with the bible. No way!

It’s if you’d say: This lump of concrete looks exactly like a loaf of bread….
why not bite into the loaf of concrete – it’s the same!
Here you just loose your teeth. In the other case you loose your life!

Atheists love to collate heathen-mystics with the bible, for it helps them, to upset weak in faith and make them insecure. You shouldn’t do alike. If you want to compare, show the immense contrasts.

The actually happened and historically assured events about Jesus Christ, and moreover so, all of the Old Testament that pointed at Jesus’ coming and salvation, shows those who WANT TO BELIEVE the truth and where the one and only truth lays. One feels Gods truth even bodily if one wants to and if one opens himself for God.

Much of the old scripts and predicts where not only known by Gods own people the Jews at Abrahams or later Moses time, but also the Egyptians and other heathens. So it’s funny that atheists often claim, the Christian myths arouse from the heathens sagas and religions, instead of vice versa, which is far more likely and actually so. Similarities we find with the Hinduism and elsewhere in all religions – not just .

Sorry for my humble English, but I am sick and tired of this atheists picking up a few examples of other religions - to show “the true origin of the Bible” as this is simply rubbish.
**
 
Charlemagne_II said:
  1. They both were searchers for the truth.
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**Sorry. Jesus was not “searcher for the truth”
Jesus was the truth Himself:

John 14:6
and Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.**
 
Bruno

Sorry. Jesus was not “searcher for the truth”
Jesus was the truth Himself:

Well, I’m certainly not going to contest the words of Jesus, am I? Perhaps I mispoke myself. Jesus’ “preoccupation” with his diciples was to preach the truth … himself … to them. Socrates’ mission, as he saw it himself, was to reach into his own depths to find the truth that was hidden from us. In any case, both Jesus and Socrates dwelled on truth-telling.

In his earlier years, even as a boy, Jesus astounded the scholars and rabbis with his knowledge of Scripture and his grasp of the truth. Perhaps this is what I meant to say when I was comparing Jesus with Socrates, who also astounded (and like Jesus irritated) many of the establishment types by making them look more deeply for the truth.
 
CatsAndDogs said:
I’m right, because I agree with the Church.

Once again, one can’t choose the wrong God, as there is only one God.

Are all atheists as dense and uneducated?
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‘I’m right, because I agree with the Church.’ That’s as convincing as saying ’ I’m right because the Bible tells me so.’

There is only one God…are you talking about Isis, Osiris, Horus, Zoroaster, Mithra, Baal, Jehovah, Jesus, Allah or Brahma?

Your passive aggressive insults are unneccesary, but I understand that it is not personal, rather it is your insecurities rising to the surface.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
What have you proven by drawing parallels between the supposed life of Osiris and the life of Jesus, who really **did **live?

What is your point?

Thank you.
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That the Biblical authors may have recycled the story of Osiris and incorporated it into the life of Christ.

It’s even more interesting that the Church has taken an official stance and claimed that Osiris etc…was the work of the Devil.

If Christ really is the son of God why the need for the Church to cut down “fake” Gods like Osiris and explain them away as the work of Satan?

Maybe because the stories are so similar and the similarities are not as far fetched as you want to believe, that the Church was more or less forced to issue an explanation.

That is all.
 
Seeker

That is all.

Well, it’s not enough. The devil is always hard at work trying to create doubts in the minds of the faithful. That is clearly what you have been up to. And that is why the Church periodically needs to address the devil, even when he appears in the guise of false gods like Osiris.

The only way your case can make any sense would be to dispute the historical facts about the existence and death of Jesus. There are no such historical facts about the existence and death of Osiris.

So you have a poor case indeed … even when you impugn the integrity of the Paul and the Evangelists.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Seeker

The devil is always hard at work trying to create doubts in the minds of the faithful.
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Which begs the question, why does God allow the Devil to prey upon his children?

Would a parent place a revenous Lion in the same yard with their children?

No.

But that is precisely what we are to believe God did.
 
seeker777 said:
the Church’s stance is that Osiris et al. is the work of the Devil.
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**the church never says so.

I fear you write down a lot of your own excitement and lack of understanding why Christians don’t follow your track.
You know what they do?
They never worry about such agitation; nor would they ever acquire you theses, but they pray for you, so you hopefully one day understand, and they offer you any time (like here) any help to find your way back to your origine that’s of God.

Go to an empty Church (or to a mass is you might) and pray for understanding and uptake into faith and believe in God. Pray hard and also see a priest for a talk about it.
If you then feel nothing, then you’ll either not be allowed to believe, or you defeat faith. If you are very attentive or alert, you will feel, that something is going on in you and with you, this or that way.

On the other hand: Why on earth are you so eager to convince Christians that there is “nothing behind it all”.
If any reasonable person don’t believe in (whatever) Religion or health-matters or what-have-you, they’d ignore it and that’s all there’s to it.

But with atheists I always come across excited discussions, and they in a flush an red heads talk themselves into a flustered state about a thing they don’t even believe.
Why??? Why don’t you think about the fact that and why this doesn’t let you calm and disinterested.
Oh – your soul knows, that there is much more behind it all than you allow yourself to admit.
**
 
[Edited]
CatsAndDogs said:
Other people’s gods are “demon/angel masks”. They lead them (usually) away from the actual God, and sometimes (unusually) toward the actual God.
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Then what does the Christian Church teach about the worship of Osiris 2500 years before Christ was born?
 
This thread has strayed from the OP’s topic. Please return to it or take side discussions to new or existing threads in the appropriate fora. Thank you all.
 
seeker

*Which begs the question, why does God allow the Devil to prey upon his children?

Would a parent place a revenous Lion in the same yard with their children?*

Not a true parallel, if you are using it to discredit the existence of God.

Might as well say the human race doesn’t exist because if it did surely men and women would not have children knowing that their offspring would sooner or later be in danger.

But people do know that from time to time their children will be in danger … and that life is a gamble right from the get-go.

How else did you expect creation to go? Did you expect that all would be perfect and that no danger would ever exist because men would have been created without the free will to choose evil over good?

I have noticed about atheists a certain running argument that the world is not as good as it should be if there is a God. Bertrand Russell famously took that position. So did Voltaire. But the idea of a perfect world can only suppose a God that made us unable to choose between the good and the bad … in other words, a puppet world in which we are are always forced to choose good over evil. God’s greatest gift, a gift even He could never take back from us, is the gift of free will. We can choose him or we can choose the devil … and He is as good as His Word at granting our wish.
 
Jean_Anthony said:
This thread has strayed from the OP’s topic. Please return to it or take side discussions to new or existing threads in the appropriate fora. Thank you all.
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Oh, so it IS “fora” (plural of “forum”)! Now that you’ve used it, I’ll use it myself, as it IS more correct. Thanks. 🙂

So, “Does God exist?”

Yes.

“Besides faith (your response to God’s revelation), how do you come to know God exists?”

I “came” to know God exists by experience of God, but that presupposes faith that God might exist, so without SOME faith it’s not possible to actually “come” to know God exists.

“How can we even be nearly sure that this universe is not due to chance?”

Only by experiencing God can we “even nearly” be sure that God qua God (as God and not as something less such as “a god”) exists, which is the only way to in any way be sure that the universe isn’t due to chaotic chance.

(( Just thought I’d hit the “restart” button of this thread to see what happens. ))
 
Jean Anthony

I’m a little confused by your statement that we have strayed from the forum topic: Does God exist?

It’s true that we have gotten sidetracked in a discussion of Osiris versus Jesus, but that discussion was rooted in trying to answer the question: Does God exist? *Seeker 777 *has been arguing that one reason it can be said that God does not exist is that religions are invented. His case is that Christianity was invented as an offspring, so to speak, of the worship of Osiris. While his argument is not at all persuasive to anyone who knows the history of mythology versus the historical facts associated with the life and death of Jesus (an actual person), he was trying to make a case, and we were trying to answer him by showing that his case does not fly.

God does exist, and no parallels of the life of Jesus with any other religious or heroic figure can be taken as a proof that Jesus was an invention, (which would lend credence to Seeker’s false notion that our God is also an invention) and therefore our God does not exist…
 
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