Does God have 3 minds?

[human_genome]

May I suggest that the Athanasian Creed could help us with this?

If they are indeed, one, and they are indeed one “incomprehensible”, that 1) they are of three minds, yet one mind, and 2) that we can’t comprehend this at all.

Jon

I have to say that I am glad I came across this comment including this creed, because this is basically what I said to Carl, who came out with this excellent question in the first place,from the get-go: The Godhead consists of three persons; God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They are indiviually 3 complete personhoods with 3 minds, yet they are of one mind. And I also concluded through and illustration that we cannot possibly comprehend this concept, We just do not have the capability to fully understand God! He said no less in Isaiah (I think it was…), “My ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts are higher than your thoughts”. So how CAN we understand this awesome, beautiful, wonderful, great God of ours!? Hallelujha! I believe He talked to me when I made my comment.
Thank you for the comment Jon.

 

[fisherman_carl]

So it seems to me that each person has a mind just as each person has a nature. But each person has the same nature. Therefore each person has the same mind. So we would say God has one nature and one mind. He can’t have a mind that is divided. Where would one mind stop and the other begin? And how could you have more than one all knowing mind? If you had two all knowing minds for instance they would be identical since they know exactly the same thing.

So the three Persons share the same mind . Since the 3 Persons are identical in their divine nature and their nature is one as God is one. However, there are still distinctions between the Persons such that each Persons attributes are not identical. Jesus for instance also has a human nature. The Father is the origin of all. The Holy Spirit is the comforter and convicter of sin.

So the three Persons have the same nature and that nature is not divided and is one. But each Person uses that nature in a distinctive way. Otherwise we could not make distinctions between them. They would be identical.

 

[Goya]

God is pure spirit. He has no body, no brain. He does have a mind and a will. ***The mind is the faculty by which one knows things. *** The will is the faculty by which one loves and decides things.

As an aside, human beings also have a mind and a will. For humans, the mind and will are faculties of the soul (not the brain.) And the soul is a spirit, not made of matter. Because we are human the brain is needed to integrate sensory perceptions, but the mind abstracts those sensory perceptions into abstract (non-material) ideas.

The ‘faculty by which one knows things’, or by which one thinks?

God is omiscient. This (presumably) applies to all three persons of the Trinity.

God does not need to ‘think’–as He knows all.

God does not need to know ‘things’ either, since he knows all.

A ‘mind’ is limited and finite.

Omniscience could not be contained in a ‘mind’. Omnipotence obviates the need for a mind, or a ‘faculty’ for thinking, and/or knowing things (just things–opposed to knowing all). In fact, imo, omniscience contradicts the very notion of such.

Intriguing question, but basically this is an excercise in anthropomorphism.

I would say Jesus had a mind, prior to ascending back to Heaven.

After that, He, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit, simply enjoy omnisicience.

Hence God does not need a mind at all.

Not 3 minds; not 1 mind.

No ‘mind’ at all.

Just all knowing, omniscience.

We think, because we have a mind. We think, therefore, we need a mind. We think, because we do not know.

God just knows.

IMHO.

 

[ConstantineTG]

No answers yet. I’m leaning towards God as having only one mind because 3 separately omniscient minds would be difficult to comprehend as being only one being. Although in Genesis God did say let us make man in our image. Was he talking to himself or to other minds?

Don’t read too much into the plural first person reference in Genesis, it has nothing to do about the Trinity.

Each Person in the Godhead does have their own will and their own mind. Christ himself said that it is not by His will but the Father’s that determine His return. Now this doesn’t mean He doesn’t know, it means it is not His decision.

 

[ConstantineTG]

So it seems to me that each person has a mind just as each person has a nature. But each person has the same nature. Therefore each person has the same mind. So we would say God has one nature and one mind. He can’t have a mind that is divided. Where would one mind stop and the other begin? And how could you have more than one all knowing mind? If you had two all knowing minds for instance they would be identical since they know exactly the same thing.

So the three Persons share the same mind . Since the 3 Persons are identical in their divine nature and their nature is one as God is one. However, there are still distinctions between the Persons such that each Persons attributes are not identical. Jesus for instance also has a human nature. The Father is the origin of all. The Holy Spirit is the comforter and convicter of sin.

So the three Persons have the same nature and that nature is not divided and is one. But each Person uses that nature in a distinctive way. Otherwise we could not make distinctions between them. They would be identical.

No, acting in one accord (or one mind) does not mean that there are no several independent minds. The answer here is the mystery of Communion. When we come into communion with Christ and with one another, we do not lose our individuality, we are not absorbed into a greater being. We remain distinct, yet we start thinking and acting like God.

 

[marlo]

In the Trinity, we do not speak of the mind as the mind is a characteristic of a creature in reference to its intellect, consciousness, perception, thinking, judgement, and memory.

In scripture, Christ is the Knowledge of God

hope this helps

As Christians we believe in the Trinity, that is 3 Persons in one God. However, does that mean God has 3 separate minds in the 3 Persons? Or does the divine nature have one shared mind between the 3 Persons? And, if God has 3 separate minds would they be separately omniscient from each other?

There is only one God, one being. But does the Holy Spirit think exactly the same thoughts as the Father and the Son and thus having one mind all the time. Or do they think independent thoughts from one another having separate minds?

 

[Goya]

No, acting in one accord (or one mind) does not mean that there are no several independent minds. The answer here is the mystery of Communion. When we come into communion with Christ and with one another, we do not lose our individuality, we are not absorbed into a greater being. We remain distinct, yet we start thinking and acting like God.

Does the Father ‘think’?

Does the Son ‘think’?

Does the Holy Spirit ‘think’?

Does God ‘think’?

Or rather, does God simply know?

If God knows all according to the godly attribute of omnisicience, what need is there for a ‘mind’? What purpose would a mind serve?

Can omniscience be part of a mind? Can such even ‘fit into’ a mind?

Would the lack of a mind–or three minds–defeat the distinction between the distinct hypostases?

Would we dare deny omniscience to one person of the Trinity? E.g.–God the Father is omniscient; but not God the Son–since He was human…

IMO–seems to me, we are often inclined to extrapulate and extend ad infinitem, temporal limitations that God the Son took on, temporarily, during the incarnation–as part of His human existence. Yet that human existence, was temporally limited, was it not?

Maybe I have it wrong here.

Did Christ remain human, after the Ascension?

Certainly–rather, perhaps–our image of Him, remains so–but that does not necessarily make it so.

God the Son was indeed human, when he took on the form of a humble human being, in the person* of Jesus of Nazareth (*=for lack of a better word–that is, not to suggest an additional ‘Person’ or hypostasis) .

But did The Son/Christ retain the dual natures of humanity and divnity, even after the Ascension?

Or was the humanity surrendered and/or consumed, into his divnity, post Ascension?

Does the mere fact that The Son became human necessitate a ‘different’ mind? A mind at all?

Would, or must, such a ‘mind’ have survived the Ascenstion?

Couldn’t God the Son have had a mind during the incarnation, then such mind have been essentially rendered obsolete upon the Ascension?

Could Christ have been human without a ‘mind’?

(Not being difficult–or pretentious–just pointing out how little we know, and how grand and varried, the possibilities in this ‘terrain’.)

 

[human_genome]

In the Trinity, we do not speak of the mind as the mind is a characteristic of a creature in reference to its intellect, consciousness, perception, thinking, judgement, and memory.

In scripture, Christ is the Knowledge of God

hope this helps

That is absolutely not correct! There is NO place in the Holy Scripture (the bible!) that Jesus is referred to as the knowledge of God! Where in the world do you get these things?! Show me in Scripture where Jesus is referred to as “the knowledge of God”! I am expecting you to show me, if you can prove this from Holy Scripture, then I have been misled all these years.
Jesus is referred to as the the only begotten Son of God, he is referred to in the Gospel of John and in the book of John as the Word of God, He is the Light of the world according to John, besides a number of other references. No reference to " knowledge of God, Marlo, anywhere.

 

[Goya]

In the Trinity, we do not speak of the mind as the mind is a characteristic of a creature in reference to its intellect, consciousness, perception, thinking, judgement, and memory.

In scripture, Christ is the Knowledge of God

hope this helps

Concur re. first part.

As for the second part…is there somewhere other than John 1 that you are basing this on? Just curious…I don’t remember specifically. Perhaps by inference/extrapulation from John 1:1?

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word as with God and word was God…”

John 1:1

…and the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us…". John 1:14

Never really heard that title used before.

 

[human_genome]

Regarding Goya statements;

Does the Father ‘think’?
Of course He does! He is a creator, The Creator. Did you ever know of a creator that did not think? Do you think that we were not well thought out before He made us? He must have thought long and hard, as He says in His word, "we were on His mind before the beginning of the world! We were the most important part of His Creation. Go to psalm 139, that should give you some idea of God’s thinking.
When God considers us, you don’t think He thinks about us? He sure does, Scripture says so, repeatedly.

Does the Son ‘think’?
Did Jesus think?
Well, if you read the Gospels, you know that He thinks! He is the Son of God, fully human and fully God. So when He walked this earth, He was not in Heaven, He was here with us (or the Jews)
Does the Holy Spirit ‘think’?
You cannot be of the same mind as someone else if you have no mind, so yes the Holy Spirit thinks, He also feels, He speaks and He acts.
Does God ‘think’?
Which one are you referring to? The GodHead consist of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. And to make this a little shorter, they all think! They all reason, they all love, they all feel, they all act. And they act in unity and cooperation, one serves the other etc.

Or rather, does God simply ‘know’?
Yes, God the Father “simply knows”! He has all knowledge that exists - “Now”. God does not live in time, He is detached from time, living “outside time” so to speak.
When Jesus was asked about the date of the end of the world, His response was, “No one knows the time or the day, not even the Son.” And then He started explaining about the signs of the times. When Jesus was walking this earth, He was in constant communication with His Father. At one point He said, “The Son does not do anything out of Himself, only what the Father tells Him to do.” Yet He also responded when someone asked Him about God, “The ones that have seen me have seen the Father.” So even though He looked like and was like His Father in Heaven, He still took :“orders” from His Father. As we also are told to do (praying to the Father)

If God knows all according to the godly attribute of omnisicience, what need is there for a ‘mind’? What purpose would a mind serve?
Omniscience is as you know when you know all things. Well, none of us knows all things, so the only One that could apply to would be God the Father. Omniscience is a word a concept, it is not part of God, it is a definition of God’s characteristic, one of them.
I am baffled by the the lack of knowledge of Scripture from so many on this website, lots of opinions and suggestions, but most do not back it up with Scripture. And much of what is being stated here is not even Scriptural.
To clarify this point, God made us "their " image (or likeness) That did not necessarily have meant our body, even though it is possible. But He certainly made us according to His likeness regarding soul, and spirit.
God is not some 3 headed monster that has no resemblance to us.
Can omniscience be part of a mind? The question makes no sense
Can such even ‘fit into’ a mind? And neither does this…

Would the lack of a mind–or three minds–defeat the distinction between the distinct hypostases?
I do not understand this question

Would we dare deny omniscience to one person of the Trinity? E.g.–God the Father is omniscient; but not God the Son–since He was human…

God the Son was fully human, yet fully God!.

IMO–seems to me, we are often inclined to extrapulate and extend ad infinitem, temporal limitations that God the Son took on, temporarily, during the incarnation–as part of His human existence. Yet that human existence, was temporally limited, was it not?

He chose to take on our humanity out of compassion for us, there was no way to save mankind other than becoming one of us. That was a permanent choice, yet He as we will, received a new body, when He came back from Hades (3 days) Jesus also was rewarded for His obedience to the Father; when He returned to Heaven, He would sit at the Father’s right hand (he still has his humanity!)

Maybe I have it wrong here.

Did Christ remain human, after the Ascension?
Yes!

Certainly our image of Him, remains so–but that does not necessarily make it so.

Christ was human, when he took on the form of a humble human being.

No! He was not human, He was Spirit before He was born into our humanity, He was God and took the form of a lowly servant to save mankind.

But did Christ retain the dual natures of humanity and divnity, even after the Ascension?

Yes, He never lost His place as the first one of many sons (and daughters), the Only Begotten Son of God

Or was the humanity surrendered and/or consumed, into his divnity, post Ascension?
No, ;as stated above

I would suggest you study the bible, I know these things because I have done just that over many years. This is as good of a time as any.
May God bless your Scripture reading, and bring you closer to Jesus!

 

[human_genome]

Well, let me start here
ConstantineTG, is correct in saying that the Trinity is a mystery to us, we cannot fully understand this wonderful unity simply because we are finite relative to God. If we fully understood who and what God is, we would have His mind. But as He has said," My thoughts are higher than your thoughts, my ways are higher than your ways." And I thank God for that!
And he is correct in saying we do not lose our indiviuality. Actually, we don’'t lose anything! Except for our sinful flesh and whatever is left of our sinful nature.
We even get to keep our mind! So if we have our individual minds, the why wouldn’t God the Father, God the Son,God the Holy Spirit have their individual minds?! Of course they do! They har complete persons the bible says so, complete in themselves yet united as one. They serve each other, within a hiarchy (Father , Son, Holy Spirit), they are in each other, yet separate. And they work together, Genesis makes that very clear; the Father is the creative mind, the Word puts it into action and the Spirit makes it come about, executes it.
Furthermore, acting in one accord does not require that we have one mind, rather that we are of one mind! Several minds - of one mind - of one accord (as they were in the upper room at Pentacost (Acts 1:8)
And lastly, ConstantineTG is incorrect in his assessment reagarding when and where we start thinkng and acting like our Lord Jesus. When we are born again (saved), we receive the mind of Christ. We now live in Him and He in us. That means that we can start thinking like Him right there, and also start acting like Him right then and there. After we accept Christ we have the Holy Spirit living in us. He is the One that gives us the power and convictions to “do the right things” (live a righteous life according to Christ , by His grace).

 

[human_genome]

Christ has two natures - human and divine - and therefore has two intellects and two wills. Scripture does not support the idea that there are three Divine wills or three Divine intellects. Intellect and will are resident in the nature, not in the person; otherwise Christ could not have a human intellect and will since he is not a human person.

That is not correct!
Jesus was fully God and also fully man. The Spirit of God lived in Him.
And specifically, how do you define “nature”?

 

[human_genome]

Christ has two natures - human and divine - and therefore has two intellects and two wills. Scripture does not support the idea that there are three Divine wills or three Divine intellects. Intellect and will are resident in the nature, not in the person; otherwise Christ could not have a human intellect and will since he is not a human person.

…Christ has two natures - human and divine
…since he is not a human person
these are both your statements, yet they are obviously contradictory…
So…, which one of them is what you believe here
And aemcpa…, how do you define nature?
And how do you define intellect?
I’ll be waiting for you answer…

 

[human_genome]

A person can only be one person. In the case of Jesus Christ, that person is a Divine Person - the second Person of the Most Holy Trinity. He assumed a complete human nature, and as such was possessed of a human intellect and a human will, and was therefore fully man.

He assumed a complete human nature… what does complete human nature mean?

possessed of a human intellect and a human will, Can you please explain yourself, I am not quite sure what you mean by using these parameters.
If anyone had the mind of Christ it would be Jesus!?

 

[human_genome]

Christ has two natures - human and divine - and therefore has two intellects and two wills. Scripture does not support the idea that there are three Divine wills or three Divine intellects. Intellect and will are resident in the nature, not in the person; otherwise Christ could not have a human intellect and will since he is not a human person.

You are really confusing me here aemcpa! in this comment you say,
Christ could not have a human intellect and will since he is not a human person.
Yet in thecomment above you say He IS a human person and He has an intellect.
Which is it?

 

[human_genome]

Christ has two natures - human and divine - and therefore has two intellects and two wills. Scripture does not support the idea that there are three Divine wills or three Divine intellects. Intellect and will are resident in the nature, not in the person; otherwise Christ could not have a human intellect and will since he is not a human person.

I am not sure what scripture you are referring to, but Scripture does back up the Trinity in the concept of 3 persons! 3 person, fully and complete persons, with theri own faculties. That means 3 complete persons; ie. 3minds, 3 wills, yet of one mind.

 

[human_genome]

That’s right. God is one. He has one divine nature. The divine nature has the faculties of intellect and will. Each of the Persons of the Trinity possesses the one divine nature, and acts using the one divine nature.

If the Persons of the Trinity had three minds and three wills, there would be three divine natures, and therefore, three Gods. But there are not. There is one God.

If that isthe case, then why wasit that Jesus communicated with His father in heaven, actually He said out of obedience, He does not do anything of Himself, but only does what the Father tells Him. He had to have a mind to think with when He was here. And He was no lesser God down here than He is in Heaven on the Throne next to His Father.

 

[aemcpa]

You are really confusing me here aemcpa! in this comment you say,
Christ could not have a human intellect and will since he is not a human person.
Yet in thecomment above you say He IS a human person and He has an intellect.
Which is it?

I did not say Christ could not have a human intellect and will since He is not a human person. I also did not say that He is a human person; I said explicitly that He is a Divine Person and not a human person.

I think you need to review the proper use of a semicolon and re-read my post.

 

[Goya]

human genome;10753757]Regarding Goya statements;

ME: Does the Father ‘think’?
YOU:*Of course He does! He is a creator, The Creator. Did you ever know of a creator that did not think? Do you think that we were not well thought out before He made us? He must have thought long and hard, as He says in His word, "we were on His mind before the beginning of the world! We were the most important part of His Creation. Go to psalm 139, that should give you some idea of God’s thinking.
When God considers us, you don’t think He thinks about us? He sure does, Scripture says so, repeatedly. *

My reply: **You misunderstand. Completely. “thinking” is a lame attempt at knowing. It is seeking knowledge. God is omniscient; He has all knowledge; He therefore has not need to ‘attempt’ or strive for knowlege, and therefore no need to think, or use for ‘thought’.

Knowledge > Thought.

Knowledge obviates thinking.

As for Psalm 139:

It says God knows all. It says God knows DAVID’s thoughts–nothing about God ‘thinking’.**

ME: Does the Son ‘think’?
YOU: *Did Jesus think? Well, if you read the Gospels, you know that He thinks! He is the Son of God, fully human and fully God. So when He walked this earth, He was not in Heaven, He was here with us (or the Jews) *

My reply: **Yes, Jesus Christ thinks, according according to His humanity. But does The Son need to think, according to His Divinity? I’m talking abuot before the Incarnation, and after the Ascension. **

ME: Does the Holy Spirit ‘think’?

YOU: You cannot be of the same mind as someone else if you have no mind, so yes the Holy Spirit thinks, He also feels, He speaks and He acts.

My reply: Your statement may apply to You [or I]. Not to God. What need has God for a mind? Who says God can’t know without a mind? Who says God needs a mind to feal, speak or act? And again, what need has God for Thought at all? He knows.

ME: Does God ‘think’?
YOU: Which one are you referring to? The GodHead consist of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. And to make this a little shorter, they all think! They all reason, they all love, they all feel, they all act. And they act in unity and cooperation, one serves the other etc.

MY REPLY: Just restating the saem question above, but applied to the Trinity, rather than the individual hypostates. Hence same answers apply. Bascially, omniscience obviates the need or purpose of a mind at all.

…

YOU: *I am baffled by the the lack of knowledge of Scripture from so many on this website, lots of opinions and suggestions, but most do not back it up with Scripture. And much of what is being stated here is not even Scriptural. *

MY REPLY: **So how about actually quoting some scripture that backs up your baseless allegations, rather than spewing arrogance out, blindly?

Heck, the one time you actually site scripture, you completely miss the point (re. Psalm 139). It says NOTHING AT ALL, about God ‘thinking’.

Here’s what I’ve taken from your posts–a whole lot of pretense about knowing scritpure…but not much substance to back it up. You keep claiming to know scriptpure, but have yet to SHOW that you do.

Sorry sir, but…you simply have not impressed. As they’d say in Texas: all hat, no cattle.

**
…

YOU: To clarify this point, God made us "their " image (or likeness) That did not necessarily have meant our body, even though it is possible. But He certainly made us according to His likeness regarding soul, and spirit.
God is not some 3 headed monster that has no resemblance to us.

MY REPLY: I never suggeted that He was a monster or anything of the sort. Further, making us in His image, does not necessitate that He have a mind–or anything else liming. e.g.–a body. We are encapsulated in a body; is God encapuslated, or trapped in a body? Why must His omnicience then, be encapsulated or trapped in a mind?

ME: Can omniscience be part of a mind?

YOU: The question makes no sense

MY REPLY: **Is the Trinity simple? Does any of it ‘make sense’? That was the point of my questions. They were intended to expose the incomprehensibility of the Trinity. Your simplistic replies–your lame attempts to reduce the grandeur of God to our level–is notihng more than anthropomorphism. **

ME: Can such even ‘fit into’ a mind?

YOU: And neither does this…

My reply: see above.

…

ME: Did Christ remain human, after the Ascension?

YOU: Yes!

MY REPLY: **Scriptural authority?

You claim to be a bible scholar…let’s see whatcha’ got.**

…

ME: Christ was human, when he took on the form of a humble human being.

YOU: No! He was not human, He was Spirit before He was born into our humanity, He was God and took the form of a lowly servant to save mankind.

MY REPLY: Jesus Christ was not human? Surely this was a clerical mistake, typo, or such. I’ll give you a mulligan on this one; an out. Suggest you take it.

ME: But did Christ retain the dual natures of humanity and divnity, even after the Ascension? …Or was the humanity surrendered and/or consumed, into his divnity, post Ascension?

YOU: No, ;as stated above

MY REPLY: **Scriptural authority?

You claim to be a bible scholar…let’s see whatcha’ got.**

…

 

[Goya]

Continuing:

YOU: I would suggest you study the bible, I know these things because I have done just that over many years. This is as good of a time as any.
May God bless your Scripture reading, and bring you closer to Jesus!

MY REPLY: …and may I kindly suggest that you take a note from our Lord and Savior, on the concept of humility. If you read your Bible, and learn nothing of humility–and frankly, go public with your arrogance–you embarass yourself, and bring disrepute to the very scripture you pretend to champion.