Does God have a "tipping point"?

[Bonnie]

I was in a conversation with 2 other Catholics about the Connecticut school shootings & 1 person said God wouldn’t stand for this much evil. I replied that God had “stood” for much more evil than this. The other Catholic said that what God will stand for refers to “when the quantity of evil hits critical mass, Christ will return.”

I’ve never heard of this. She is a well-read Catholic so I thought I’d check here to find out if it is Catholic teaching that I just haven’t noticed.

It is my understanding that God knows - that is, has a set day/time - for the Second Coming.

 

[Lancer]

“when the quantity of evil hits critical mass, Christ will return.”

Words that say: I don’t have a clue and ignore scripture and the writings of Apostolic Age & Father’s of Church. Evil hit its critical mass 2000+ yrs ago…when we humans murdered the Son of God…God made Flesh…our Savior. What more and greater evil can we humans do…than to murder God Incarnate. All our evil combined can’t come close to that murderous act…which shook the entire created world…heaven and earth.

Pax Christi

Signs that are to precede the [end of time] general judgment

The Scriptures mention certain events which are to take place before the final judgment. These predictions were not intended to serve as indications of the exact time of the judgment, for that day and hour are known only to the Father, and will come when least expected. They were meant to foreshadow the last judgment and to keep the end of the world present to the minds of Christians, without, however, exciting useless curiosity and vain fears. Theologians usually enumerate the following** nine events as signs of the last judgment:**

**General preaching of the Christian religion
**
Concerning this sign the Saviour says: “And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come” (Matthew 24:14). This sign was understood by Chrysostom and Theophilus as referring to the destruction of Jerusalem, but, according to the majority of interpreters, Christ is here speaking of the end of the world.

**Conversion of the Jews
**
According to the interpretation of the Fathers, the conversion of the Jews towards the end of the world is foretold by St. Paul in the Epistle to the Romans (11:25-26): “For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, . . . that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles should come in. And so all Israel should be saved as it is written: There shall come out of Sion, he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob”.

**Return of Enoch and Elijah
**
The belief that these two men, who have never tasted death, are reserved for the last times to be precursors of the Second Advent was practically unanimous among the Fathers, which belief they base on several texts of Scripture. (Concerning Elijah see Malachi 4:5-6; Sirach 48:10; Matthew 17:11; concerning Enoch see Sirach 44:16)

A great apostasy

As to this event St. Paul admonishes the Thessalonians (2 Thessalonians 2:3) that they must not be terrified, as if the day of the Lord were at hand, for there must first come a revolt (he apostasia).The Fathers and interpreters understand by this revolt a great reduction in the number of the faithful through the abandonment of the Christian religion by many nations. Some commentators cite as confirmatory of this belief the words of Christ: “But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?” (Luke 18:8).

**The reign of Antichrist
**
In the passage above mentioned (2 Thessalonians 2:3 sqq.) St. Paul indicates as another sign of the day of the Lord, the revelation of the man of sin, the son of perdition. “The man of sin” here described is generally identified with the Antichrist, who, says St. John (1 John 2:18), is to come in the last days. Although much obscurity and difference of opinion prevails on this subject, it is generally admitted from the foregoing and other texts that before the Second Coming there will arise a powerful adversary of Christ, who will seduce the nations by his wonders, and persecute the Church.

**Extraordinary perturbations of nature
**
The Scriptures clearly indicate that the judgment will be preceded by unwonted and terrifying disturbances of the physical universe (Matthew 24:29; Luke 21:25-26). The wars, pestilences, famines, and earthquakes foretold in Matthew 24:6 sq. are also understood by some writers as among the calamities of the last times.

**The universal conflagration
**
In the Apostolic writings we are told that the end of the world will be brought about through a general conflagration, which, however, will not annihilate the present creation, but will change its form and appearance (2 Peter 3:10-13; cf. 1 Thessalonians 5:2; Apocalypse 3:3, and 16:15). Natural science shows the possibility of such a catastrophe being produced in the ordinary course of events, but theologians generally tend to believe that its origin will be entirely miraculous.

**The Trumpet of Resurrection
**
Several texts in the New Testament make mention of a voice or trumpet which will awaken the dead to resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15; John 5:28). According to St. Thomas (Supplement 86:2) there is reference in these passages either to the voice or to the apparition of Christ, which will cause the resurrection of the dead.

**“The sign of the Son of Man appearing in the heavens”
**
In Matthew 24:30, this is indicated as the sign immediately preceding the appearance of Christ to judge the world. By this sign the Fathers of the Church generally understand the appearance in the sky of the Cross on which the Saviour died or else of a wonderful cross of light.

newadvent.org/cathen/08552a.htm

 

[dshix]

I was in a conversation with 2 other Catholics about the Connecticut school shootings & 1 person said God wouldn’t stand for this much evil. I replied that God had “stood” for much more evil than this. The other Catholic said that what God will stand for refers to “when the quantity of evil hits critical mass, Christ will return.”

I’ve never heard of this. She is a well-read Catholic so I thought I’d check here to find out if it is Catholic teaching that I just haven’t noticed.

It is my understanding that God knows - that is, has a set day/time - for the Second Coming.

The answer to your question is “No, there is no ‘tipping point’ for God, because He does not change.”

God can “stand” any amount of evil, because He is infinite, outside of time, and unchangeable, so He is not limited by anger or difficulties.

Everything that happens is according to what His plan was at the beginning of time, and He does as He wills.

 

[po18guy]

God has probably watched 20 innocent children die daily in Connecticut, due to abortion, for decades now. The culture of death has produced all such tragedies because the culture of death is a tragedy in itself.

 

[Bonnie]

God has probably watched 20 innocent children die daily in Connecticut, due to abortion, for decades now. The culture of death has produced all such tragedies because the culture of death is a tragedy in itself.

Amen. That was one of my thoughts, as well as all the deaths of innocents that have occured since the beginning.

God can “stand” any amount of evil, because He is infinite, outside of time, and unchangeable, so He is not limited by anger or difficulties.

That’s good, too. Thanks everybody.

 

[centurionguard]

The answer to your question is “No, there is no ‘tipping point’ for God, because He does not change.”

God can “stand” any amount of evil, because He is infinite, outside of time, and unchangeable, so He is not limited by anger or difficulties.

Everything that happens is according to what His plan was at the beginning of time, and He does as He wills.

I would say YES God does have a tipping point if such expression is poorly used.

We the Faithful know it as the Great Day of Holy Retribution when God will return to Judge His people. A Day of Wrath never seen before in human history.

As to the Day or Hour no one knows but the Heavenly Father.

The Bible is full of various verses.
Prophecy Of Osee (Hosea) Chapter 9 drbo.org/chapter/33009.htm

Book Of Deuteronomy Chapter 32 drbo.org/chapter/05032.htm

The Apocalypse Of Saint John (Revelation) Chapter 6 drbo.org/chapter/73006.htm

 

[po18guy]

Amen. That was one of my thoughts, as well as all the deaths of innocents that have occured since the beginning.

That’s good, too. Thanks everybody.

Let’s look at the big picture: the Holocaust. On average, almost 3,000 per day from 1939-1945. The vast majority Jews, but also those who were dark cpmplected, mixed races, other “undesirables” - even Catholic Priests. Have we stopped believing in God because of the Holocaust?

We can place the beginning of the culture of death as early as we want, but one point in its inception is the acceptance of contraception by many non-Catholic sects. When? 1930. Look at what followed.

 

[Philthy]

The answer to your question is “No, there is no ‘tipping point’ for God, because He does not change.”
God can “stand” any amount of evil, because He is infinite, outside of time, and unchangeable, so He is not limited by anger or difficulties.
Everything that happens is according to what His plan was at the beginning of time, and He does as He wills.

I don’t think it is entirely accurate - or useful actually - to think of God as “unchanging”; nor of “everything that happens” as “according to what His plan was at the beginning of time”.
First and foremost, God did change when Christ took on human form - this is a great mystery buy true nonetheless. Jesus of Nazareth did not exist for all eternity even though the eternally begotten Son of God did.
God is most certainly portrayed as being responsive to our petitions and prayers in both the OT and NT. God is Sovereign, but prayer matters. Think of all the time the prayers of Moses, Joshua and others “changed” God’s plan in the OT. Think of the parable of the “unjust judge” and others that speak of persevering in prayer in order to move God . Perhaps that doesn’t fall into what you mean when you say, God is unchanging, but if not then I find the concept not particularly useful as it applies to this situation. Do you really mean to imply that it was God’s “plan” / Will that those children were murdered ? Or do you think that free will is God’s “unchanging” plan and that people use it for evil rather than good? I think it is the latter…

Blessings!

 

[livingwordunity]

We live in a demonic culture.

 

[Faxero]

I was in a conversation with 2 other Catholics about the Connecticut school shootings & 1 person said God wouldn’t stand for this much evil. I replied that God had “stood” for much more evil than this.

:idea:

The phase ‘God wouldn’t stand for this’ might have been an idiom. See the following webpage.

idioms.thefreedictionary.com/not+stand+for+it

examples
“To refuse to accept something. I won’t have you using that kind of language, I simply won’t stand for it! When I was a child, my mother just wouldn’t stand for rude behavior.”

‘God wouldn’t stand for this much evil.’ = ‘God will not tolerate this much evil. Justice will be served.’

 

[dshix]

:idea:

The phase ‘God wouldn’t stand for this’ might have been an idiom. See the following webpage.

idioms.thefreedictionary.com/not+stand+for+it

examples
“To refuse to accept something. I won’t have you using that kind of language, I simply won’t stand for it! When I was a child, my mother just wouldn’t stand for rude behavior.”

‘God wouldn’t stand for this much evil.’ = ‘God will not tolerate this much evil. Justice will be served.’

Thread’s about 4.5 years old.

 

[Faxero]

Thread’s about 4.5 years old.

:yup:, I am aware of that.

I thought about sending Bonnie a private message, but decided against it. I want my knowledge to be known publicly.