Does God have free will?

[EMTWB141]

I think God definitely has free will. I think some may be limiting what free will is. Free will isn’t just a choice between good or bad, it’s also what to do and when to do it. I can go to church or I can go on a mission trip. Both are good. But it’s my choice. I think God has free will. Look at Jonah, He spared Nineveh. I remember reading a question somewhere that asked ‘If Jesus couldn’t sin (He’s God, so He can’t sin), did He have free will?’ The answerer explained that Jesus could easily have free will. He could go talk to this person, visit this person, tell this parable at this time. The only difference between God and us though is God is all knowing. He already knows the outcome of every decision and the best decision. If this decision is going to get more people to turn to Him, He’ll do it.

 

[AmandaFilipi]

The first part about Adam and Eve: Even before they ate of the fruit THEY STILL HAD FREE WILL. God gave them free-will since before they were created but they had no knowledge of sin and therefore nothing they did (that would count as a sin) was wrong until they had knowledge of their actions. When they sinned it wasn’t to deliberately hurt God or because they chose sin over good. It wasn’t until they ate of the fruit that they knew being naked was a sin. Having free will today means choosing sin and knowing that what we are doing is wrong. God didn’t create human kind, or our pure ancestors Adam and Eve so that we could all be puppets! He created us to love Him, strive for perfection, and most importantly, CHOOSE Him. In the case of Adam and Eve, He created them without Original Sin not without free-will.

As for God Himself, He is not bound to any laws of this earth! Saying that God does or doesn’t have free-will is a useless argument. It’s like saying “Does God choose to love, honor, obey, and respect his own law?” One True God means He answers to no one; we all answer to Him!

 

[Philthy]

Free will is the ability to choose between one action and another.
God has not only a free will, but a perfect and free will. Because God’s will is perfect, he always chooses the ultimate good in the exercise of his free choice. Some will erroneously conclude that if God “cannot” choose evil that he is not free to do so. Their error is in not appreciating that God, because he has a perfect will, freely chooses the good over the evil. He always, freely, makes the choice of truth over the choice of falsehood. This fact in no way limits his freedom. He freely chooses good rather than evil.
The second aspect of the OP - why WE could not have been created with a “perfect” will that freely chose good rather than evil and still have been free to love him is an interesting question that I will have to give some thought to.

 

[CatholicTrekkie]

Free will is the ability to choose between one action and another.
God has not only a free will, but a perfect and free will. Because God’s will is perfect, he always chooses the ultimate good in the exercise of his free choice. Some will erroneously conclude that if God “cannot” choose evil that he is not free to do so. Their error is in not appreciating that God, because he has a perfect will, freely chooses the good over the evil. He always, freely, makes the choice of truth over the choice of falsehood. This fact in no way limits his freedom. He freely chooses good rather than evil.

You make a very good point. I can see why you say that God has perfect free will (and I’m not debating that. It is true!).

But your argument also leads to somewhat of a conundrum. If God freely chooses good over evil, then does that mean that His Goodness is not a necessary part of his nature, but only a result of his choices? To put it another way: Is God good because He chooses to be so, or is He good because that is His essential, necessary nature, regardless of His choices (all of which are good, of course)? To me, it seems that Catholic theology espouses the latter, that God is Perfect Goodness, and that that is an essential part of His nature. What are your thoughts on this?

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by “perfect”?

 

[AntalKalnoky]

God is not a human; God Is the Proven Creator Of Everything; Creator of The Universe. Creator Of Intelligence, and The Laws of Mathematics. So we show our Human intelligence and nature in even asking if God can choose anything wrong! A Catholic Saint(s)/thinker(s) has figured that Evil is the absence of good…(Thread idea) …:bluelite::newidea::extrahappy:

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Free will is the ability to choose between one action and another.
God has not only a free will, but a perfect and free will. Because God’s will is perfect, he always chooses the ultimate good in the exercise of his free choice. Some will erroneously conclude that if God “cannot” choose evil that he is not free to do so. Their error is in not appreciating that God, because he has a perfect will, freely chooses the good over the evil. He always, freely, makes the choice of truth over the choice of falsehood. This fact in no way limits his freedom. He freely chooses good rather than evil.
The second aspect of the OP - why WE could not have been created with a “perfect” will that freely chose good rather than evil and still have been free to love him is an interesting question that I will have to give some thought to.

Philty, you misunderstand the term perfect free will.

Perfect free will is a defining characteristic of all spirits (of which God is one). It is a consequence of the spirits being not constrained by time: since they are not constrained by time, they do not need to learn (which needs time) about a subject; rather, upon their moment of existence, that moment extends to the end of time, and thus what they can know, they already know.

Now this knowing even extends to the consequences of the actions of spirits. What does that mean? It means that ANY action they do, spirits know and experience (to the extent of their capabilities) the consequences. Therefore, whatever decision a spirit makes, he cannot change his mind later, because there IS NO later; his action happens on the moment of decision, and thus he knows and experiences all the consequences of his action UPON THE DECISION. This is what is called the “Perfect Free Will.”

Contrast that with us humans, who, bound with time, have to learn and wait for the consequences of our actions; therefore, we can change our minds later about our decisions. We have “Imperfect Free Wills.”

This is why we cannot sin when we get to Heaven: upon reaching Heaven, we, as spirits, have decided to serve God through all eternity, and nothing can change that later, because there is no later.

This is why demons cannot change their mind later and be good; since the moment of their creation and knowing the thoughts of God, they knew they were going rebel against God, and they know the consequences of their decisions, and upon decision, they became evil for all eternity.

And this is why God cannot and will not do evil: He decided beyond eternity that He is good, and this decision has “made” Him as He is (“I AM WHO AM”). Therefore, He cannot do evil ever, because He decided not to long ago, and this decision has defined Him.

God love you.

 

[Philthy]

But your argument also leads to somewhat of a conundrum.

 

[Philthy]

+JMJ+

Hi nuntym! :tiphat:

Philthy, you misunderstand the term perfect free will.

Interesting - I didnt know it was formally defined, but Im interested in learning…

Perfect free will is a defining characteristic of all spirits (of which God is one). It is a consequence of the spirits being not constrained by time: since they are not constrained by time, they do not need to learn (which needs time) about a subject; rather, upon their moment of existence, that moment extends to the end of time, and thus what they can know, they already know.

So what you mean is that perfect free will is a characteristic of all beings which exist outside of time, correct?

Now this knowing even extends to the consequences of the actions of spirits. What does that mean? It means that ANY action they do, spirits know and experience (to the extent of their capabilities) the consequences. Therefore, whatever decision a spirit makes, he cannot change his mind later, because there IS NO later; his action happens on the moment of decision, and thus he knows and experiences all the consequences of his action UPON THE DECISION. This is what is called the “Perfect Free Will.”

Hmmm, you seem to allow for a “decision” but preclude it from being an “action”, but at the same time allow it to have a “consequence”. My guess is that our minds cannot quite grasp eternity…

Contrast that with us humans, who, bound with time, have to learn and wait for the consequences of our actions; therefore, we can change our minds later about our decisions. We have “Imperfect Free Wills.”

I would have described that as a “dynamic” free will rather than “imperfect”.

This is why we cannot sin when we get to Heaven: upon reaching Heaven, we, as spirits, have decided to serve God through all eternity, and nothing can change that later, because there is no later.

this i like!

This is why demons cannot change their mind later and be good; since the moment of their creation and knowing the thoughts of God, they knew they were going rebel against God, and they know the consequences of their decisions, and upon decision, they became evil for all eternity.

I accept this as a part of the faith

And this is why God cannot and will not do evil: He decided beyond eternity that He is good, and this decision has “made” Him as He is (“I AM WHO AM”). Therefore, He cannot do evil ever, because He decided not to long ago, and this decision has defined Him.

Again, the idea of a “decision” seems to confuse the issue of God’s essence and eternity. I dont find it useful or accurate to think of God as “deciding” to be good; it seems anthropomorphic. I do, however, get the “flavor” of what you are trying to say it just seems to be a bit beyond our intellects…

God love you.

“Decidedly” so!
And may the peace of God - beyond all understanding - be with you

 

[shaky]

Free will is the ability to choose between one action and another.
God has not only a free will, but a perfect and free will. Because God’s will is perfect, he always chooses the ultimate good in the exercise of his free choice. Some will erroneously conclude that if God “cannot” choose evil that he is not free to do so. Their error is in not appreciating that God, because he has a perfect will, freely chooses the good over the evil. He always, freely, makes the choice of truth over the choice of falsehood. This fact in no way limits his freedom. He freely chooses good rather than evil.
The second aspect of the OP - why WE could not have been created with a “perfect” will that freely chose good rather than evil and still have been free to love him is an interesting question that I will have to give some thought to.

Yes you are right because Exodus 32:12 shows God is capable in choosing to to evil and then Repenting from this intention.

 

[Philthy]

Yes you are right because Exodus 32:12 shows God is capable in choosing to to evil and then Repenting from this intention.

Clearly God has chosen to reveal our relationship with Him as one in which our petitions are heard and answered. Are we not told “how much more will the Father give the holy Spirit to those who ask him” Luke 11:13?
There may be a deep theological significance to Nuntym’s articulation of what “perfect free will” is, but it has little to do with any practical application of the concept in the realm of mortality IMHO. It might be interesting to see how Nuntym would differentiate between how a perfect free will manifests itself in eternity vs how it is manifest in time. In eternity God’s will is, well, eternally manifest. In time, however, God’s “eternal” will is progressively manifest. We pray, “Give us this day our daily bread…” as a petition for God’s provision to be manifest…this day, today. It is a request for action. It is requested because we believe that making the request “moves” God. At least that is how I have always understood it…does that make sense?

Blessings!

 

[ejsacasa]

I’ve been thinking the same thing, recently. Well, I’m thinking God won’t choose evil, however, that doesn’t mean he can’t choose between two goods. I mean, is it unreasonable to think that two actions will be just as good for a given situation? I don’t think so. Everything God has chosen, is good, but that doesn’t mean he can’t choose.

 

[Aloysium]

just some random thoughts:

we pray that His kingdom come here on earth
His kingdom: mankind doing His will
the more we do His will, the freer we become
God has infinite freedom
His realm is that of love and compassion
all is a manifestation of His love
Matt 7:9 “Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?”

my view would be “no”, He does not have “free will” - He is Love, omnipotent, omniscient

Satan tempted Him in the desert; He would know what we face.

I do not believe He would be other than what He is.
Given that He sits in eternity and has created this wondrous universe, i don’t see this as being a limitation.