Does God love Satan?

[BrunoMaria]

A dear friend wrote to me in PM:

It is beyond me why youhave become so emotional over this point. Apparently, there are men of good will who differ – in good faith – on this question. Maybe it would be best to just realize that all of the bemoaning will not change anything … now, if you were actually to offer some evidence to support your opinion, instead of just more of your opinion and this time with attitude – that may be helpful…

There is no way to offer any evidence even to the being of heaven and hell. The cleverest people of this world tried to - all in vain. But we all will see

So, how does this sound – either produce evidence to support your opinion, or just move on to another topic?

Oh, I did. I never answered again here in this topic
But ok - I will - and here I have another go ​

It simply hurts, (and it really hurts many) that so many think God would actually LOVE Satan even though Satan hates God, and even tough God condemned Satan and his legions in all eternity.

If God would love Satan, God would suffer unspeakably, that His “beloved Satan” is far off God in hell. Those we love, we really want to be together with - don’t we. Let’s not match God’s feelings with ours, but let’s be logical in believe too (as St. Paul said - for God made us in His likeness).
Would anyone ever dare to think we have a suffering God?! No! We got the one and only almighty, omnipotent God! Not a suffering God! We know what emotional stress and suffering means.

Still, it seems almost useless to go on in this theme, for as we see on so many convinced answers in so many forums world-wide (not just here); too many are convinced that God loves Satan and that’s it. Reason: God loves all He created and God is Love. Last of which is absolutely right. Wrong is, that God; “can not other than love”. This is heresy, because God is omnipotent and CAN of course - what so ever.

I mean; I argued this thing in other forums too, for instance with biblical verses in which we learn that God hates all that’s bad - for instance divorce in Malachi 2,16: “For I hate divorce, says the LORD the God of Israel, and covering one’s garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So take heed to yourselves and do not be faithless.” Or take Deut 12,31: for every abominable thing which the LORD hates they have done for their gods. Or in Revelation 2,6: God hates what the Nicolaitans do.

OK - here I usually got the opposing argument; that God hates bad doing (sin), but never hates the sinner. Of course God does not hate the sinner! But his is valid only as long as God’s grace gives the sinner a chance to return. But then, when the sinner rebuked this chance and the evildoer is finally condemned; - then there is no love of God left for this individual (like Satan) and he is lost forever without any trace of God’s love left on him.

As scripture tells us that God hates the mentioned, then this evil subject or object (as God is Love) is so very much irreconcilable and contradictory to God’s being, that God rebuffs (condemns) also this individual absolutely and eternally. Oh, God surely can hate a being God Himself created too. It’s godless to claim “God Can Not…”. How dare we to claim God CAN NOT hate even though God is Love Himself?!

In Malachi 1,3 we learn that the Lord plainly speaks it out: “I have hated Esau!” How then would God love Satan? Is Esau worse than Satan? Surely not! Satan hates God and he’s a thousand times worse than any person mentioned in Mt 18,6 which St. Paul took as cause for his word in Hebrew 10,31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Jesus too loved some more than others. For instance John. Those who love God, God loves more than those who hate God or those who don’t believe neither in God nor His word, and therefore (therewith) call God a liar. And definitely those who are judged and condemned forever, lost all of God’s love without a trace.

Yours
Bruno

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings BrunoMaria,

I did not want to quote the entire post of yours. I wanted to address this point that you made.

There is no way to offer any evidence even to the being of heaven and hell. The cleverest people of this world tried to - all in vain. But we all will see

Actually we can know that there is a heaven and hell by the Church’s Teaching. It is quite clear on this. I do not know why people seem to think that heaven and hell do not exist.

I am not addressing the rest of your post because things have already been stated over and over and over and over again, they need not be rehashed.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

Greetings to those posting and or reading this thread,

It is my prayer that this thread dies out.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Bruno,

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

301 With creation, God does not abandon his creatures to themselves. He not only gives them being and existence, but also, and at every moment, upholds and sustains them in being, enables them to act and brings them to their final end. Recognizing this utter dependence with respect to the Creator is a source of wisdom and freedom, of joy and confidence:

For you love all things that exist, and detest none of the things that you have made; for you would not have made anything if you had hated it. How would anything have endured, if you had not willed it? Or how would anything not called forth by you have been preserved? You spare all things, for they are yours, O Lord, you who love the living.

I hope this resolves the matter…

God bless

A dear friend wrote to me in PM:

There is no way to offer any evidence even to the being of heaven and hell. The cleverest people of this world tried to - all in vain. But we all will see

Oh, I did. I never answered again here in this topic
But ok - I will - and here I have another go ​

It simply hurts, (and it really hurts many) that so many think God would actually LOVE Satan even though Satan hates God, and even tough God condemned Satan and his legions in all eternity.

If God would love Satan, God would suffer unspeakably, that His “beloved Satan” is far off God in hell. Those we love, we really want to be together with - don’t we. Let’s not match God’s feelings with ours, but let’s be logical in believe too (as St. Paul said - for God made us in His likeness).
Would anyone ever dare to think we have a suffering God?! No! We got the one and only almighty, omnipotent God! Not a suffering God! We know what emotional stress and suffering means.

Still, it seems almost useless to go on in this theme, for as we see on so many convinced answers in so many forums world-wide (not just here); too many are convinced that God loves Satan and that’s it. Reason: God loves all He created and God is Love. Last of which is absolutely right. Wrong is, that God; “can not other than love”. This is heresy, because God is omnipotent and CAN of course - what so ever.

I mean; I argued this thing in other forums too, for instance with biblical verses in which we learn that God hates all that’s bad - for instance divorce in Malachi 2,16: “For I hate divorce, says the LORD the God of Israel, and covering one’s garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So take heed to yourselves and do not be faithless.” Or take Deut 12,31: for every abominable thing which the LORD hates they have done for their gods. Or in Revelation 2,6: God hates what the Nicolaitans do.

OK - here I usually got the opposing argument; that God hates bad doing (sin), but never hates the sinner. Of course God does not hate the sinner! But his is valid only as long as God’s grace gives the sinner a chance to return. But then, when the sinner rebuked this chance and the evildoer is finally condemned; - then there is no love of God left for this individual (like Satan) and he is lost forever without any trace of God’s love left on him.

As scripture tells us that God hates the mentioned, then this evil subject or object (as God is Love) is so very much irreconcilable and contradictory to God’s being, that God rebuffs (condemns) also this individual absolutely and eternally. Oh, God surely can hate a being God Himself created too. It’s godless to claim “God Can Not…”. How dare we to claim God CAN NOT hate even though God is Love Himself?!

In Malachi 1,3 we learn that the Lord plainly speaks it out: “I have hated Esau!” How then would God love Satan? Is Esau worse than Satan? Surely not! Satan hates God and he’s a thousand times worse than any person mentioned in Mt 18,6 which St. Paul took as cause for his word in Hebrew 10,31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Jesus too loved some more than others. For instance John. Those who love God, God loves more than those who hate God or those who don’t believe neither in God nor His word, and therefore (therewith) call God a liar. And definitely those who are judged and condemned forever, lost all of God’s love without a trace.

Yours
Bruno

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Hi, Bruno,

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

301 With creation, God does not abandon his creatures to themselves. He not only gives them being and existence, but also, and at every moment, upholds and sustains them in being, enables them to act and brings them to their final end. Recognizing this utter dependence with respect to the Creator is a source of wisdom and freedom, of joy and confidence:

For you love all things that exist, and detest none of the things that you have made; for you would not have made anything if you had hated it. How would anything have endured, if you had not willed it? Or how would anything not called forth by you have been preserved? You spare all things, for they are yours, O Lord, you who love the living.

I hope this resolves the matter…

God bless

Well done!! Glory to the Father in heaven that Tqualey exists. And Glory to the Father in heaven that the devil exists. God even loves those who turn against him forever. This is the glory of God, and bless are you that see.

Bruno, if you are correct, then you would effectively be saying that there is something in existence that puts to shame Gods creative act, so much so that it provokes the almighty God to hate his creation. This is impossible, because nothing can cause God to change his eternal nature! God does not fail. All existence is good; it is our actions that are wrong.

God bless you Bruno; you to will see.

 

[PazzoGrande]

Hi, Bruno,

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

301 With creation, God does not abandon his creatures to themselves. He not only gives them being and existence, but also, and at every moment, upholds and sustains them in being, enables them to act and brings them to their final end. Recognizing this utter dependence with respect to the Creator is a source of wisdom and freedom, of joy and confidence:

For you love all things that exist, and detest none of the things that you have made; for you would not have made anything if you had hated it. How would anything have endured, if you had not willed it? Or how would anything not called forth by you have been preserved? You spare all things, for they are yours, O Lord, you who love the living.

I hope this resolves the matter…

God bless

While you’re right, it won’t resolve the matter. Know why? Cause I also posted the same Bible quote many posts ago yet this useless debate endured anyway. I’m surprised it’s still going.

You know, exorcists say that when forced to, demons when possessing people will still verbally adore God when they are compelled and call Him Father. God is always their Creator, always their Father. He’s just the Father of some really messed up kids (why can’t you be more like Jesus?). Even though they can’t change anymore, the Universal Father is still the Universal Father.

But of course the debate will still continue. I only kept subscribed to this thread because I found a certain user to be entertaining to watch as she debated on this topic, though she hasn’t posted on this thread in some time.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, MOM2,

Thank you for your kind words …

You know, the CCC has a lot of material in it!

God bless

Well done!! Glory to the Father in heaven that Tqualey exists. And Glory to the Father in heaven that the devil exists. God even loves those who turn against him forever. This is the glory of God, and bless are you that see.

Bruno, if you are correct, then you would effectively be saying that there is something in existence that puts to shame Gods creative act, so much so that it provokes the almighty God to hate his creation. This is impossible! God does not fail. All existence is good; it is our actions that are wrong.

God bless you Bruno; you to will see.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, PazzoGrande,

Ooooooooops … sorry, I missed your post on that.

So, it is too much to expect that this was the end of it, eh? You may be right … but, only the next post will tell … more or less…

As I see it, God not only loves the sinner - but, continues to love the sinner even if that sinner is now in Hell where he chose to go. God is able to make the distinction between his creations and the evil that they may do. God really does hate evil and cannot abide it because it is against His Total Goodness. But, He really does love His creatures.

Let’s hope this is it…

God bless

While you’re right, it won’t resolve the matter. Know why? Cause I also posted the same Bible quote many posts ago yet this useless debate endured anyway. I’m surprised it’s still going.

You know, exorcists say that when forced to, demons when possessing people will still verbally adore God when they are compelled and call Him Father. God is always their Creator, always their Father. He’s just the Father of some really messed up kids (why can’t you be more like Jesus?). Even though they can’t change anymore, the Universal Father is still the Universal Father.

But of course the debate will still continue. I only kept subscribed to this thread because I found a certain user to be entertaining to watch as she debated on this topic, though she hasn’t posted on this thread in some time.

 

[PazzoGrande]

Hi, PazzoGrande,

Ooooooooops … sorry, I missed your post on that.

So, it is too much to expect that this was the end of it, eh? You may be right … but, only the next post will tell … more or less…

As I see it, God not only loves the sinner - but, continues to love the sinner even if that sinner is now in Hell where he chose to go. God is able to make the distinction between his creations and the evil that they may do. God really does hate evil and cannot abide it because it is against His Total Goodness. But, He really does love His creatures.

I’d like to add to that. Yes, the sinner – including fallen angels – make the choice to damn themselves. God tries as much as He can, but hey, if you insist on turning away from it, then to hell you send yourself. Exorcists who have practical interaction with demons say that demons created hell. God didn’t create it and didn’t send anyone there.

Again to those who disagree that God still loves demons, I suggest you read Father Jose Antonio Fortea’s book Interview with the Exorcist. Before I got more educated in it myself, I also would have thought that God hates the devil, but now I get the higher logic. Father Fortea is a renowned exorcist, and he says that demons scoff when we try to get rid of them with hate.

To put it in another way, say you have kids, one of them is a psycho who tried to kill the other ones. That one has to go to prison, but he’s still your kid, and you fail him when you don’t still love him. Sure, you have to protect the other kids from him, you try your best to make sure they don’t go to prison as well. God is the ultimate loving Father

It’s a bit different with God and demons because demons made the definitive choice, the eternal choice, to turn away from our Father. They’re going to be in prison forever. They’re going to be the black sheep forever. There is no possibility for change. Surely it hurts God but it’s an imperfect love if you start to hate someone who hurt you.

I still have yet to see anyone give a good, reliable Catholic source who says God hates demons. Everyone on this thread so far who says that God hates them have either given us their own logic (in which case, they’re encouraged to let us know their qualifications to speak with authority on it) or give us a source that we don’t find reliable (one from a protestant who as far as we can tell does not really have any insight aside from conjecture). Fortea, on the other hand, has practical experience on demons and is one of the world’s leading experts on it.

While I also thought before that God hates demons, I yield to the experienced voice of Father Fortea because anything I might say is just my guess.

If you can top that, please do. Otherwise, anything else that you or we say is just repetition (**annoying **repetition) and won’t provide any more depth to the topic. This is just going to be a waste of time that will get us to irritate each other with our religion, which is wrong and ridiculous (although the user who perpetuated that has stopped posting as her account was apparently suspended). That’s why I opted out already, because I don’t want to be dragged down with useless arguments. I keep waiting for any new insight and none has come. Instead the irritation continues.

But again that’s not going to stop the debate. I’m still waiting for something useful to come, though I seriously doubt that it will.

 

[BrunoMaria]

Greetings BrunoMaria,
I did not want to quote the entire post of yours. I wanted to address this point that you made.
Actually we can know that there is a heaven and hell by the Church’s Teaching. It is quite clear on this. I do not know why people seem to think that heaven and hell do not exist. … It is my prayer that this thread dies out.

Thanks Anathama. Yes - me too hopes that this silly thread will die out, and I will not neither here nor in in our MailCircle (from where I copied my answer into here) ever again react/answer on that to me redundant theme.

But as to my word:
"There is no way to offer any evidence even to the being of heaven and hell. The cleverest people of this world tried to - all in vain. But we all will see "
I think there’s a misunderstanding.
Of course there is heaven and hell, and even more real than we here on earth are! No question about that! I never doubted that in all my long 76 years I lived!!! and I think I even can say before God - yes - I NEVER DOUBTED!
But even Jesus Himself did OF COURSE not prove all He said about heaven and hell, but Jesus taught in a way, that he who’s got ears to hear and eyes to see, certainly was convinced. Others where not, because there was no prove TO THEM. If there was, we did not need belief, for we had prove .
Sorry I had written in a mistakable way - (I am German and speak a funny English
That’s a great new thread, and I will open it - under the Thread-name
Prove of Heaven and Hell
(just to get of this devilish thread here - as to that new theme, please do answer there only)

 

[bsy]

This is an opinion poll; let’s respect everyone’s opinion.
Defending “NO, GOD DOES NOT LOVE SATAN.”
1.
While some believe that
Satan’s existence is because of God’s love, or Satan will cease to exist.

I believe that
Satan’s existence is because of God’s Will, or Satan will cease to exist.
• so that grace will abound even more. God > Satan: Grace > Sin
• to test humanity - to freely choose Good over Evil.
• to increase our longing for Heaven, as we await the promise of salvation.
Ex. After a calamity, attendance in churches increased.
Ex. After deliverance from a demonic possession, the victim becomes closer
to God. Others, who witnessed, develop stronger faith as well.
Ex. Someone who is gravely ill turns to prayer.

---

1. If it’s for the above reasons, why will Satan continue to exist and suffer eternal torment in the pool of fire after the Last Judgment?
   “Divine Justice” because God is Just. Eternal life for the righteous; eternal damnation for the unrighteous.

---

THE CHANGE.
I believe that God is love, and all are created out of love. God is good, and all that is created are good. The angel’s existence was out of God’s goodness and love, so his original being was good; but his rejection and desire to usurp, made him Satan, the adversary of God. He wouldn’t be called Satan if he remains with God, would he? Our Catechism (CCC2851) defines evil, not as an abstraction, but refers to a PERSON, SATAN, the Evil One, the angel who opposes God.” Evil is the person Satan, not merely his acts.

---

I strongly believe that the distinction between sinner and sin is only up to the TIME OF DEATH. It is taught so we will not judge since we don’t fully know a person’s heart at the time of his death.
After that, the sinner and his sins become one. This is the reason why someone who is dead can no longer repent. There is no longer a distinction. It is the same with spiritual beings - no distinction. Jn 5:29 “those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.” The body, soul, and deeds are judged as one.

---

1. There is NO Scriptural reference that says “God loves Satan.” On the contrary, the inspired writers of the Bible
   a. God “hates” evil and wickedness. Judith 5:17, Ps. 5:4-5, 11:5, 31:5-6, 31: 5-6, 45:6-7, 45:6-7, Prov. 6:16:19, 16:5, Eccl 15:13-14, Wis 12:4, Mal. 2:16, Heb. 1:8-9, Zech 3:2.
   b. God cursed Satan.Gen 3:14
   c. Enmity between Satan and the woman, between Satan’s seed and the woman’s seed.
   Gen 3:15
   d. God’s wrath. Jn 3:36, Rom 1:18, 12:19 “Vengeance is Mine.” Heb 4:3 As I swore in my wrath, they shall not enter my rest. Rev 14:10…drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger.
   e. Satan’s doom. Rev 20:10.
   For spiritual beings, there is no distinction between being and act. Further explained.

---

1. Saint’s the vision of hell. St. Faustina’s testimony:
   The First Torture that constitutes hell is the “LOSS OF GOD.” The fourth is a terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God’s “ANGER.”

 

[MindOverMatter2]

God is good, and all that is created are good.

1. If you accept that creation is good; then that is something which cannot change, since its being good is not dependent upon “choice” in the first place; but rather it is reflective of the natural attributes of existing things.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Thanks Anathama. Yes - me too hopes that this silly thread will die out, and I will not neither here nor in in our MailCircle (from where I copied my answer into here) ever again react/answer on that to me redundant theme.

But as to my word:
"There is no way to offer any evidence even to the being of heaven and hell. The cleverest people of this world tried to - all in vain. But we all will see "
I think there’s a misunderstanding.
Of course there is heaven and hell, and even more real than we here on earth are! No question about that! I never doubted that in all my long 76 years I lived!!! and I think I even can say before God - yes - I NEVER DOUBTED!
But even Jesus Himself did OF COURSE not prove all He said about heaven and hell, but Jesus taught in a way, that he who’s got ears to hear and eyes to see, certainly was convinced. Others where not, because there was no prove TO THEM. If there was, we did not need belief, for we had prove .
Sorry I had written in a mistakable way - (I am German and speak a funny English
That’s a great new thread, and I will open it - under the Thread-name
Prove of Heaven and Hell
(just to get of this devilish thread here - as to that new theme, please do answer there only)

Greetings BrunoMaria,

Ahhh I am relieved to see that you do believe in Heaven or Hell. I shall go and check out that other thread that you mention.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Anathama and Bruno and BSY

Now, I do not want to be too obvious about this … but, if the desire is to see, “…this silly thread die out…” then feeding it with further posts is like feeding more coals into the fire! Chances are … if you do not respond to this … it will simply float away…

How does that sound to you guys?

God bless

Thanks Anathama. Yes - me too hopes that this silly thread will die out, and I will not neither here nor in in our MailCircle (from where I copied my answer into here) ever again react/answer on that to me redundant theme.

But as to my word:
"There is no way to offer any evidence even to the being of heaven and hell. The cleverest people of this world tried to - all in vain. But we all will see "
I think there’s a misunderstanding.
Of course there is heaven and hell, and even more real than we here on earth are! No question about that! I never doubted that in all my long 76 years I lived!!! and I think I even can say before God - yes - I NEVER DOUBTED!
But even Jesus Himself did OF COURSE not prove all He said about heaven and hell, but Jesus taught in a way, that he who’s got ears to hear and eyes to see, certainly was convinced. Others where not, because there was no prove TO THEM. If there was, we did not need belief, for we had prove .
Sorry I had written in a mistakable way - (I am German and speak a funny English
That’s a great new thread, and I will open it - under the Thread-name
Prove of Heaven and Hell
(just to get of this devilish thread here - as to that new theme, please do answer there only)

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Hi, Anathama and Bruno and BSY

Now, I do not want to be too obvious about this … but, if the desire is to see, “…this silly thread die out…” then feeding it with further posts is like feeding more coals into the fire! Chances are … if you do not respond to this … it will simply float away…

How does that sound to you guys?

God bless

Greetings Tqualey,

Hee hee you just fed it, and again I have to respond.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit