Does God only forgive the repentant?

[JM3]

You know the more I read this, the more this sounds like a catch-22! If the unrepentent are forgiven what good is it to them? They don’t think they need forgiveness, so they will never feel bad about their sins. In fact, they won’t even think they had sinned!

Forgiveness is only good for the repentant. Only the contrite know how good forgiveness feels.

CCC 2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion…

CCC 1442 Christ has willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole Church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood…

CCC 604 By giving up his own Son for our sins, God manifests that his plan for us is one of benevolent love, prior to any merit on our part: "In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins."408 God "shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us."409

CCC 605 At the end of the parable of the lost sheep Jesus recalled that God’s love excludes no one: "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish."410 He affirms that he came “to give his life as a ransom for many”; this last term is not restrictive, but contrasts the whole of humanity with the unique person of the redeemer who hands himself over to save us.411 The Church, following the apostles, teaches that Christ died for all men without exception: "There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer."412

Luke 6:32: “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.”

 

[CHRISTINE77]

CCC 2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion…

CCC 1442 Christ has willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole Church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood…

CCC 604 By giving up his own Son for our sins, God manifests that his plan for us is one of benevolent love, prior to any merit on our part: "In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins."408 God "shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us."409

CCC 605 At the end of the parable of the lost sheep Jesus recalled that God’s love excludes no one: "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish."410 He affirms that he came “to give his life as a ransom for many”; this last term is not restrictive, but contrasts the whole of humanity with the unique person of the redeemer who hands himself over to save us.411 The Church, following the apostles, teaches that Christ died for all men without exception: "There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer."412

Thanks, but I don’t think this really is what I was looking for. How does this address the fact that the unrepentent don’t want or think they need forgiveness?

 

[grannymh]

For readers information, here is the complete CCC, 2010. I put in bold some interesting information.
Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

Links to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/

 

[JM3]

Thanks, but I don’t think this really is what I was looking for. How does this address the fact that the unrepentent don’t want or think they need forgiveness?

Contrary to popular belief, I don’t know everything, nor am I as perfect as I could be.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_18051986_dominum-et-vivificantem_en.html

Read paragraphs 46-48.

47…Hence the Church constantly implores from God the grace that integrity of human consciences will not be lost, that their healthy sensitivity with regard to good and evil will not be blunted. This integrity and sensitivity are profoundly linked to the intimate action of the Spirit of truth. In this light the exhortations of St. Paul assume particular eloquence: “Do not quench the Spirit”; "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit."188 But above all the Church constantly implores with the greatest fervor that there will be no increase in the world of the sin that the Gospel calls “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.” Rather, she prays that it will decrease in human souls-and consequently in the forms and structures of society itself-and that it will make room for that openness of conscience necessary for the saving action of the Holy Spirit. The Church prays that the dangerous sin against the Spirit will give way to a holy readiness to accept his mission as the Counselor, when he comes to “convince the world concerning sin, and righteousness and judgment.”

CCC 1442 Christ has willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole Church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood…

(Yes, I know the popular belief is that I know nothing. Maybe I’ll change my user name to Sgt. Schultz. )

 

[OneSheep]

Once again, you search for quotes to substantiate your erroneous beliefs.

You are thinking that I am in error.

First, it is absolutely critical to note that the mind of the Church or even of the Pope himself cannot be determined by looking at the writings of a future pope before he became pope.** A cardinal’s election as pope does not in any way validate his earlier remarks, none of which were protected in the least by the grace of his later office**. His opinion is simply his opinion, no different than yours in meditating on the meaning of that parable.

I agree with Cardinal Ratzinger, that was all I implied. And, since he was Catholic at the time, I think it is fair to say that his opinion was acceptable among Catholics. Perhaps not you, though?

Second, you err with respect to the Father. He allowed the son to fully experience the consequences of his wrong action. Until that occurs, a person cannot fully repent. He did not search him out in his travels spending the inheritance. Only when the son was on his return home, did the Father reach out to meet him.

That is the way you view the Father, from your spiritual experience. I will stand by the possibility that then Cardinal Ratzinger and myself see it differently. I am not saying that you are wrong, Sirach. I am saying that there is room in the Church for some differences on the matter.

You again spin your view of the scriptures to make them fit your point of view. .

We all do this. My point of view is from my experiences. I cannot change my experiences, so when I here something from scripture or the CCC that doesn’t make sense, I figure out how to make sense out of it. Do you forgive the unrepentant? If so or if not, then this is part of your experience, an experience that will make a difference in your point of view.

Now, as far as the “retaining sins” question goes, I think it is an appropriate and pertinent question. If you don’t want to answer, that is fine, and we can drop the conversation. We begin, Sirach, with our experiences. Speak to me of God, and how He has influenced you, how your faith has guided your action.

Do you retain anyone’s sins?

Perhaps you do not find it allowable to think of such a question. Well, let me pose a hypothetical. If you were so ordained, would you retain anyone’s sins?

In the mean time, please, I ask for a little more gentleness. I am not attacking you or the Church. You are a good person with a strong conscience, Sirach. I hold nothing against you. This is not a boxing match is it? It is a discussion.

Join me, Sirach, in viewing the wonderful diversity of opinion and experience in our Great Church. Will you?

 

[OneSheep]

You know the more I read this, the more this sounds like a catch-22! If the unrepentent are forgiven what good is it to them? They don’t think they need forgiveness, so they will never feel bad about their sins. In fact, they won’t even think they had sinned!

Forgiveness is only good for the repentant. Only the contrite know how good forgiveness feels.

Forgiveness is also good for the forgiver (us).

Only the forgiving know how “good” it feels to forgive everyone we hold something against.

 

[OneSheep]

This is why God’s forgiveness is tons better than granny’s forgiveness.

Arguably, all forgiveness comes from God whether it is from us individually or God Himself. Ability to forgive is a gift bestowed.

Indeed, it could definitely be viewed though, that God’s forgiveness is “better”. However, “better” in terms of result was not the discussion I was involved in. The question is, is God more, or less, forgiving than we are. I cannot imagine God being less forgiving than I am. He is not less forgiving, period.

I do not withhold forgiveness, not on purpose (sometimes I do not realize it when I hold something against someone. I am far, far, from omniscient.) God forgives much more deeply, and much faster than I can imagine. I just know it.

 

[grannymh]

It seems to me that the crux of the problem is confusion about the nature of human beings. Ever since Adam, humans have wanted to be divine. Yet, somehow, humans overlook the fact that they are in the image of God and therefore, they are called to share in God’s life. The flip side is that humans tell themselves that they can do what they think God should do. For example, lay humans, who are not Catholic priests, forgiving Mortal Sins and reinstating the State of Sanctifying Grace.

Here are some basic Catholic teachings. (CCC, 1730-1731)
God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. “God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.

Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

This may be just me as an older than dirt granny. But I really do not think we can re-create our own human nature nor do we have the power to change the super-natural nature of our Creator. Thus, both the repentant and the anti-repentant simply have to deal with their freedom.

The reason we need to look at our “freedom” is that often, not always, someone who is intent on drawing Catholics away from their Faith will begin by chipping away at true freedom. Distractors usually avoid the truth that the only way human creatures can live in union with their Divine Creator is to live in free submission to God with the emphasis on free. This is related to the philosophical concepts of Creator and creature.

The problem Distractors face is the problem of wrong doing. Being responsible for one’s Mortal Sins is a “catholic” thing, so that has to be replaced by fancy ideas like blindness or universal uninhibited forgiveness or misunderstanding conscience. However, one cannot totally eliminate personal responsibility for wrong doing because that would wreak havoc in society. Also, there are humans who like to feel forgiven which is related to the “catholic guilt” syndrome. For the Distractor in teacher’s clothing, the solution is to present God as forgiving Mortal Sins independently of how the wrong doer feels. That way people can “enjoy” life knowing that their real guilt for Mortal Sin vanishes automatically. As for die-hard Catholics, the Distractor allows that they can still go to Confession; nevertheless, their Mortal Sins have already been forgiven.

The real problem is that the Catholic Church teaches that there must first be true sorrow and detestation for the Mortal Sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin mortally again. (Information source. CCC, 1450-1453) This is where we need to look at human’s true freedom in choosing either the State of Sanctifying Grace or the State of Mortal Sin.

Are you with me, Sgt. Schultz?

 

[Sirach2]

You are thinking that I am in error.

Perhaps** you do not find it allowable** to think of such a question. Well, let me pose a hypothetical. If you **were **so ordained, would you retain anyone’s sins?

In the mean time, please, I ask for a little more gentleness. I am not attacking you or the Church. You are a good person with a strong conscience, Sirach. I hold nothing against you. This is not a boxing match is it? It is a discussion.

You are a master in the art of sophistry, imputing false motives, and injecting baited comments to focus on me, rather than the subject matter. As such, there is absolutely no point in attempting any further “discussions” with you.

 

[simpleas]

No. Just as a healthy cell can become cancerous and must be removed to save the body, so a member of the body of Christ can remove themselves by unrepentant mortal sin.

So we trapped really then. Once you are brought up catholic, you must confess mortal sin, even a small one to a priest or else you can not be forgiven by God.
I don’t mean this to sound like I think I’m on the same level as God, but I don’t think priest’s are much different from us, other than they are blessed by a bishop to carry out Jesus’ mission on earth.
And I don’t think we should be thinking we can do whatever we want and just forgive each other whenever we choose.
Mortal sin to me is total rejection of God, disrespect of other people, murder.

 

[simpleas]

It seems to me that the crux of the problem is confusion about the nature of human beings. Ever since Adam, humans have wanted to be divine. Yet, somehow, humans overlook the fact that they are in the image of God and therefore, they are called to share in God’s life. The flip side is that humans tell themselves that they can do what they think God should do. For example, lay humans, who are not Catholic priests, forgiving Mortal Sins and reinstating the State of Sanctifying Grace.

Here are some basic Catholic teachings. (CCC, 1730-1731)
God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. “God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.

Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

This may be just me as an older than dirt granny. But I really do not think we can re-create our own human nature nor do we have the power to change the super-natural nature of our Creator. Thus, both the repentant and the anti-repentant simply have to deal with their freedom.

The reason we need to look at our “freedom” is that often, not always, someone who is intent on drawing Catholics away from their Faith will begin by chipping away at true freedom. Distractors usually avoid the truth that the only way human creatures can live in union with their Divine Creator is to live in free submission to God with the emphasis on free. This is related to the philosophical concepts of Creator and creature.

The problem Distractors face is the problem of wrong doing. Being responsible for one’s Mortal Sins is a “catholic” thing, so that has to be replaced by fancy ideas like blindness or universal uninhibited forgiveness or misunderstanding conscience. However, one cannot totally eliminate personal responsibility for wrong doing because that would wreak havoc in society. Also, there are humans who like to feel forgiven which is related to the “catholic guilt” syndrome. For the Distractor in teacher’s clothing, the solution is to present God as forgiving Mortal Sins independently of how the wrong doer feels. That way people can “enjoy” life knowing that their real guilt for Mortal Sin vanishes automatically. As for die-hard Catholics, the Distractor allows that they can still go to Confession; nevertheless, their Mortal Sins have already been forgiven.

The real problem is that the Catholic Church teaches that there must first be true sorrow and detestation for the Mortal Sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin mortally again. (Information source. CCC, 1450-1453) This is where we need to look at human’s true freedom in choosing either the State of Sanctifying Grace or the State of Mortal Sin.

Are you with me, Sgt. Schultz?

I like what you have written here. I’m still to understand what true freedom is. I hope to journey in this life and finally realise it.
How can people “enjoy” life knowing that their real guilt for Mortal Sin vanishes automatically, if they have no guilt of a mortal sin to begin with, and I mean catholic people and not people who maybe ignornant of the faith?
We can feel guilt for something where someone else feels no guilt. So do we make people need to feel guilty about a MS?
We can inform someone that a certain ms is serious enough to separate them from God, but they can only realise this if they feel they have sinned to begin with, and maybe they can’t feel guilty…

 

[OneSheep]

You are a master in the art of sophistry, imputing false motives, and injecting baited comments to focus on me, rather than the subject matter. As such, there is absolutely no point in attempting any further “discussions” with you.

A Sister once told me, “when we point at someone like this, (she put her hand pointing with her index finger) there are three fingers pointing back toward you.”

Are you pointing your finger at me?

If so, I do not hold it against you, Sirach. And I sincerely hope that you can forgive me for any hurt or anger on your part. None was intended.

In the mean time, I request that you attempt to take this to heart: There is room in the Church for differences of opinion, whether it is mine or Cardinal Ratzinger or whoever. If there is an opinion that offends you, forgive them, even if it appears that they are not “repenting” of it. Forgive everyone, Sirach, you hold something against. It is our calling.

 

[OneSheep]

And I don’t think we should be thinking we can do whatever we want and just forgive each other whenever we choose.

I am confused about this statement, Simpleas.

“Thinking we can do whatever we want.” would include acts against the conscience and/or law, which we should avoid. “Forgiving each other whenever we choose” is our calling, though. We are to forgive anyone we hold something against. We are called to make such a choice.

And here is the crux of the question of the thread, does God ask us to forgive the unrepentant, while (assuming) He does not?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

As we pray the Lord’s Prayer, we are actually trying to mimic God’s forgiveness:

“And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

 

[grannymh]

In the mean time, I request that you attempt to take this to heart: There is room in the Church for differences of opinion, whether it is mine or Cardinal Ratzinger or whoever. If there is an opinion that offends you, forgive them, even if it appears that they are not “repenting” of it. Forgive everyone, Sirach, you hold something against. It is our calling.

Is it a coincidence that you appear when you are on what is left of my mind?

First. I was thinking about some of the good stuff you have posted on the forgiveness of other people.

Second. I need to go over these comments from post 47. I need to deeply understand exactly what you are asking. --* The question is, is God more, or less, forgiving than we are*. –
The odd thing is that Father Peter Campbell, M.S.C., popped into my mind.
Arguably, all forgiveness comes from God whether it is from us individually or God Himself. Ability to forgive is a gift bestowed.

Indeed, it could definitely be viewed though, that God’s forgiveness is “better”. However, “better” in terms of result was not the discussion I was involved in. The question is, is God more, or less, forgiving than we are. I cannot imagine God being less forgiving than I am. He is not less forgiving, period.

Third. This is a very important point from post 52. You have talked about it before without details. Now, I would like to understand how it works in real time regarding the thread’s topic. Seriously.
In the meantime, I request that you attempt to take this to heart: There is room in the Church for differences of opinion, whether it is mine or Cardinal Ratzinger or whoever.

 

[grannymh]

So we trapped really then. Once you are brought up catholic, you must confess mortal sin, even a small one to a priest or else you can not be forgiven by God.

Basic first step following a Mortal Sin is repentance/contrition for sinning mortally against God coupled with a resolution to avoid the particular Mortal Sin followed by a sincere promise to go to the Sacrament of Confession. When our “act of contrition”, that is, our repentance for mortally sinning, is based in our overwhelming love of God above all else, it is considered “perfect”. This first step, in its perfection of total love for God, is sufficient to obtain God’s immediate forgiveness of Mortal Sins, provided that there is a firm resolution to receive the Sacrament of Confession as soon as possible. Going to Confession assures us that we are forgiven – even when it turns out that our repentance is not perfect.

Practically speaking, one can be forgiven the moment after the freely committed Mortal Sin, provided that there is sincere repentance based on love rather than fear. Plus there is the promise of receiving the Sacrament of Confession as soon as possible.

Practically speaking, there are people who go to the Sacrament of Confession solely out of fear of the consequences of being in the State of Mortal Sin. This “imperfect” contrition or repentance is sufficient to receive God’s absolution/forgiveness in the Sacrament of Confession.

Practically speaking, during the Sacrament of Confession, we do our best regarding the Act of Contrition while shaking in our shoes. Jesus comes freely to us when we participate in the Sacrament of Confession. He dearly wants to pick up the black lambs and hold us close to His heart.

Because we seek the removal of the State of Mortal Sin and God’s reinstatement of the State of Sanctifying Grace, we make sure we get to the Sacrament of Confession. This Sacrament is also forward looking as it gives us future graces to help us avoid sinning. We need to make use of this excellent tool even when we have not committed a Mortal Sin. It is o.k. to confess that we have not committed a Mortal Sin but that there are plenty of annoying venial sins. We can admit that we need the future graces of the Sacrament of Confession so that we do not stumble.

Jesus, with the marks of nails in His hands, will pull us out of the brambles and when we sincerely seek union with Him (State of Sanctifying Grace), He will carry us home.

 

[OneSheep]

[/INDENT]Third. This is a very important point from post 52. You have talked about it before without details. Now, I would like to understand how it works in real time regarding the thread’s topic. Seriously.

I’m not sure what detail you are looking for, Granny, but I’ll try this.

Forgiveness is from the heart. The more people and instances a person forgives, the more forgiving a person is. Forgiveness of the repentant and the unrepentant are examples, because forgiveness of the unrepentant involves letting go of the natural “I only forgive if they are sorry” rule. A person may have to put aside some resistance from their natural conscience in order to forgive the unrepentant.

Does God have this same restriction? That is part of the discussion. Does God have a conscience that says “only forgive the repentant”? To me, in my opinion, Jesus from the Cross gives the answer. He answered it in other ways also.

 

[simpleas]

I am confused about this statement, Simpleas.

“Thinking we can do whatever we want.” would include acts against the conscience and/or law, which we should avoid. “Forgiving each other whenever we choose” is our calling, though. We are to forgive anyone we hold something against. We are called to make such a choice.

And here is the crux of the question of the thread, does God ask us to forgive the unrepentant, while (assuming) He does not?

I don’t know what you mean by would include acts against the conscience and/or law, which we should avoid.

By Thinking we can do whatever we want I mean in terms of living in a way that a person doesn’t care about anyone else.

Forgiving each other whenever we choose

By this I meant we can’t pick and choose who we forgive, we should forgive anyone we hold something against just as Jesus asked us to.

 

[simpleas]

Basic first step following a Mortal Sin is repentance/contrition for sinning mortally against God coupled with a resolution to avoid the particular Mortal Sin followed by a sincere promise to go to the Sacrament of Confession. When our “act of contrition”, that is, our repentance for mortally sinning, is based in our overwhelming love of God above all else, it is considered “perfect”. This first step, in its perfection of total love for God, is sufficient to obtain God’s immediate forgiveness of Mortal Sins, provided that there is a firm resolution to receive the Sacrament of Confession as soon as possible. Going to Confession assures us that we are forgiven – even when it turns out that our repentance is not perfect.

Practically speaking, one can be forgiven the moment after the freely committed Mortal Sin, provided that there is sincere repentance based on love rather than fear. Plus there is the promise of receiving the Sacrament of Confession as soon as possible.

Practically speaking, there are people who go to the Sacrament of Confession solely out of fear of the consequences of being in the State of Mortal Sin. This “imperfect” contrition or repentance is sufficient to receive God’s absolution/forgiveness in the Sacrament of Confession.

Practically speaking, during the Sacrament of Confession, we do our best regarding the Act of Contrition while shaking in our shoes. Jesus comes freely to us when we participate in the Sacrament of Confession. He dearly wants to pick up the black lambs and hold us close to His heart.

Because we seek the removal of the State of Mortal Sin and God’s reinstatement of the State of Sanctifying Grace, we make sure we get to the Sacrament of Confession. This Sacrament is also forward looking as it gives us future graces to help us avoid sinning. We need to make use of this excellent tool even when we have not committed a Mortal Sin. It is o.k. to confess that we have not committed a Mortal Sin but that there are plenty of annoying venial sins. We can admit that we need the future graces of the Sacrament of Confession so that we do not stumble.

Jesus, with the marks of nails in His hands, will pull us out of the brambles and when we sincerely seek union with Him (State of Sanctifying Grace), He will carry us home.

Thanks, I was hoping you would reply to post # 51, but no worries.

Jesus, with the marks of nails in His hands This is the sort of guilt I’m thinking of.

 

[grannymh]

I’m not sure what detail you are looking for, Granny, but I’ll try this.

Forgiveness is from the heart. The more people and instances a person forgives, the more forgiving a person is. Forgiveness of the repentant and the unrepentant are examples, because forgiveness of the unrepentant involves letting go of the natural “I only forgive if they are sorry” rule. A person may have to put aside some resistance from their natural conscience in order to forgive the unrepentant.

How can you ask me to understand that there is room in the Church for different journeys, different ways of looking at things without giving me some facts? (From post 122, Thread “Augustinism and Pelagianism”) The editors I worked for in the days before personal computers would jump from their graves if I responded to you without facts in my back pocket. I look forward to your details and then I will be able to truthfully answer your question – “So, what do you think, Granny, is there room or is there not?”

Example of details. Different ways of looking at things. Which things? Different journeys. Which journeys as in which religious beliefs and practices. Details include belief or non-belief in the Catholic teachings regarding Original Sin, human nature, conscience, the State of Sanctifying Grace, the State of Mortal Sin, God’s forgiveness and need for human repentance/contrition, etc. Note: the importance or non-importance of human repentance for Mortal Sin is part of this thread’s discussion.

Perhaps I am hearing “Cafeteria Catholicism” as the description for this “all encompassing room” or “big tent”. Now that I am thinking about that, could it be that “Cafeteria Catholicism” is actually what is being promoted?

Is it or is it not “Cafeteria Catholicism” which is being promoted in post 52 and in other places?
From post 52 above. “In the meantime, I request that you attempt to take this to heart: There is room in the Church for differences of opinion, whether it is mine or Cardinal Ratzinger or whoever.”

Stopping to take a breath.

We can look at the offered “room in the Church” as containing individuals doing their own thing. In my humble opinion a “room” populated by individuals with differences of opinion can be a reasonable approach. Yet, even though this “room” is reasonable, there may be a problem with the Catholic belief that the Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ.

I re-read post 122 in the thread “Augustinism and Pelagianism”. Here is a very interesting out-of-context comment.
Jesus worked to move His religion, the Jewish religion, in the direction of more justice, more mercy, and more inclusivity.

Since I do not have the context for this comment, I will assume that it is correct. The difficulty for me is that the Catholic Church established on Pentecost is not within the Jewish Religion even though it promotes more justice and more mercy. I am not sure about the “more inclusivity” because I do not know what all that entails.

I apologize for my wandering mind. I am trying to locate details for OneSheep’s post 52 “room in the Church for differences of opinion, whether it is mine or Cardinal Ratzinger or whoever.”