Does God Really Condemn Entire Countries?

[Julian0404]

YOU sir (or madam) are totally insane if you honestly think that.

You speak of “fairness”…so…does an eleven year old American Catholic, for example, who dies get held accountable for his inaction on making abortion illegal again? What about a 15 year old? 18? When Catholics ask themselves these questions the whole concept of mortal sin and its punishment becomes ridiculous.

I do not speak of “fairness”, re-read my response.
I stated that GOD does not operate under any rules of fairness, as HE is GOD, and fairness is a human concept.

The church has declared that the age of reason is seven (7). GOD knows the hearts of all of us when we die regardless of our age of death we can all rest in the comfort that HE alone will judge us for what we have done and for what we have failed to do. Do not trouble yourself with examples that would test GOD for HE is beyond all the examples you can imagine, but rather look to yourself and what you have done or failed to do and know that GOD will judge you correctly in the truth of your actions and life.

 

[Julian0404]

There is no way we can know this…I know it sounds bad, but as humans, we tend to form opinions based on what we know to be good and bad, when Gods views on this may be a bit different.

There was one bible verse where a bunch of young kids was making fun of a man for being bald, or going bald…what did God do…he sent 2 female bears out of nowhere to maul all these kids to death! Obviously this sounds very evil to us, but to God, he apparently thought it was necessary…(shrugs?)

Furthermore, I do have a feeling we will be judged for our non-action on topics such as abortion, especially if we are devout christians, go to mass every week, say our rosary, etc. we go thru all the motions, but when it comes time to act, we back down, mainly for fear of loosing our quality of life, by either ending up in jail, or criticized and/or looked down upon by others that hear of what we have done.

Whether or not God will hold kids to the same principles as adults, I dont know, I doubt it, but I cant know for sure, also, our definition of ‘kid’ is probably way different than our idea of a kid too…LOL I know people who call people in their mid 20s, ‘kids’!! but in biblical times, people stopped being kids around 11 or 12…its all relative I guess.

Mikekle,
In the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, there is a prayer we say every Sunday in which we pray ". . . for what I have done, and for what I have failed to do. . . " I leave it to you to find that prayer and mediate on the whole prayer and what we are praying.
However, your comment that you do not believe that we will not be judge for what we have failed to do, is reflective of the “worlds” opinion and “political spin” on many topics one of which is faith. But read the Catechism of the Catholic church on confession and understand that “not” doing right, is the same as “approving of” the wrong. GOD desire us to know HIM, love HIM and serve HIM, and we cannot allow wrongs and evils to exist without our actively pursuing to correct them, and still be serving GOD. Another prayer we pray at Mass we say ". . . THY will be done . . . ", and who will perform the will of GOD? HIS believers, who desire to serve HIM - that is us.

 

[mikekle]

Mikekle,
In the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, there is a prayer we say every Sunday in which we pray ". . . for what I have done, and for what I have failed to do. . . " I leave it to you to find that prayer and mediate on the whole prayer and what we are praying.
However, your comment that you do not believe that we will not be judge for what we have failed to do, is reflective of the “worlds” opinion and “political spin” on many topics one of which is faith. But read the Catechism of the Catholic church on confession and understand that “not” doing right, is the same as “approving of” the wrong. GOD desire us to know HIM, love HIM and serve HIM, and we cannot allow wrongs and evils to exist without our actively pursuing to correct them, and still be serving GOD. Another prayer we pray at Mass we say ". . . THY will be done . . . ", and who will perform the will of GOD? HIS believers, who desire to serve HIM - that is us.

I think you misunderstood me, I DO believe we will be judged for our non-action, example, I think alot of us will be judged for simply sitting idly by and ‘letting’ abortion continue, mostly for the sake of our own quality of life and so we dont end up behind bars…I have a feeling God would want us to do anything we can to stop this, even if it includes fighting with those who would defend child killers…(law enforcement, prochoice groups, etc).

 

[fred_conty]

Because every U.S. citizen pays taxes to the Federal Government, and the Federal Government provides funding to organizations of death such as Planned Parenthood, does this mean that all U.S. citizens are condemned for the sin of supporting abortion? What is the Catholic Church teaching on such matters?

In the time that Jesus lived on this earth, he himself paid taxes. And the money that he paid would go to the Romans who were conquering the world, and making people slaves. They used the money to support the people of Rome. They too were using this money to live in a non moral way. But… Jesus still paid the tax.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[mikekle]

In the time that Jesus lived on this earth, he himself paid taxes. And the money that he paid would go to the Romans who were conquering the world, and making people slaves. They used the money to support the people of Rome. They too were using this money to live in a non moral way. But… Jesus still paid the tax.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

IDK, something about this seems ‘off’ to me, while I dont normally agree with people that claim the bible was just created as a means to control the public and keep them in line for societies sake…but in this case, where its basically instructing people to pay their taxes NO MATTER WHAT they are ultimately used for, just doesnt seem to fit with the bibles teachings IMO.

The bible tells us that not every war is just, only something God considers to be just is worth going to war over, seems to me it would be the same for paying taxes, only if the money is to be used for JUST causes.Strange to me that the bible seems to mesh a little too well with how our leaders would want people in society to behave (in most cases anyway)…from paying taxes no matter what to the 10 commandments, they may be religious in nature, but also make for a peaceful and CONTROLLED society…Im sure people in Govt, leaders like this!

I may be wrong about this,but just strange to me that the bible would tell people to pay taxes but not to base it on what the money is to be used for, seems more ‘God-like’ to make sure first that the money would NOT be used for anything immoral or evil in nature, and if such proof was found it was being used for that, instruct the people NOT to pay…that makes more sense to me, after all, Gods laws are more important than mans laws.

 

[Sarcelle]

I think you misunderstood me, I DO believe we will be judged for our non-action, example, I think alot of us will be judged for simply sitting idly by and ‘letting’ abortion continue, mostly for the sake of our own quality of life and so we dont end up behind bars…I have a feeling God would want us to do anything we can to stop this, even if it includes fighting with those who would defend child killers…(law enforcement, prochoice groups, etc).

So what do you deem as sufficient action when it comes to stopping abortion?

 

[mikekle]

So what do you deem as sufficient action when it comes to stopping abortion?

Good question, I dont have the answer though, but I do think its going to take A WHOLE LOT more than whats being done currently.

Since Hitlers murders didnt come close to the number that have died due to abortion, I guess one could ask themselves, what lengths would they have gone to, if they had lived back then, to stop Hitler, and all he did?

Personally I think bringing back the Crusaders may help with ridding the world of abortion, sure it would be rough going in the beginning, they would all be labeled domestic terrorists, and probably arrested, but if successful, in the end, everyone would go down in history as victorious and as heroes…same thing if anyone would have killed Hitler back then, at the time, it would have been rough for them, but eventually, with time, they would be considered heroes by everyone!

Think about it, if abortion was completely stopped next week, 20yrs from now, whomever was involved in stopping that, (no matter what lengths it took), they will have saved the lives of MILLIONS of people!!! I tend to think God would look favorably on this ‘group’, even if it took violence and constant fighting with those that would protect killers, govt politicians, law enforcement, etc…eventually with all the lives saved, all those that once protected killers would be vilified permanently.

 

[teeboy]

Yes. But Noah cursed Canaan. Judah procreated with a Caananite Woman; Jesus, Mary, and Joesph are of a Canaanite blood line.

God had a Covenant with Israel (Jacob) and it was a blessing and a curse. God has no covenant with the United States. The New Covenant is with the Catholic Church; not a nation and not nations.

I clarify my statement above by saying that I understand the Old Covenants to still exist today, so it was and is a blessing and a curse.

 

[Julian0404]

Well, if the Padre said these people will believe in hell once they get there, that is implying they will regret their decisions…but I always thought the people in hell were perfectly content being somewhere without Jesus, because they lived their whole lives without him, hell would be no different for them, plus, its said they CHOOSE hell, no one sends them there…??

No, there is no implied reference to regret, just “destination”, and upon reaching that destination, they will no longer be able to deny its existence. Eternity lifts the veil of ignorance real or self imposed. Truth is known and undeniable. And sadly, we are taught, that those souls in hell will hate GOD as much or more in hell than they did during their secular time.

 

[Julian0404]

What would really answer this is if we could figure out how long Sodom and Gomorrah went on as they did before God took action…this would probably be a good indicator of how much time it takes God to ‘act’ in a situation like this.

I believe that if you review the story of Noah building the Ark, you will be able to discern that it took almost 100 years for he and his family to construct the Ark. During that entire time, when notice was given of GOD’s impending wrath, no one changed. No one believed. No one accepted GOD, or Noah’s message, or Noah’s actions as being true.
Time does not heal, only faith penetrating the heart and soul. Review the story of Jonah and his preaching in Nineveh and see that in 1-2 days the entire city believed and changed.
While GOD is slow to anger HIS season of justice is upon the US America. It is not occurring like Sodom and Gomorrah, but much slower as California is now entering the 4th year of unprecedented draught. California supplies the US with the majority of our fruits and vegetables. Texas, which has the nations largest abortion facility, has been suffering draught and extreme temperatures.
Detroit has just put up an idolatrous symbol for satan - murdering our babies, embracing Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying marriage, and now putting up symbols of satan - GOD’s hand of justice is upon the US.
Keep yourselves in a state of grace. Attend to confession weekly if you have sinned. Do not sleep without praying an Act of Contrition, and embrace the ROSARY begging for GOD mercy.

 

[openmind77]

No, of course not.

Actually it depends on what the OP means by ‘condemn’ - if the OP is saying all citizens will go to hell because the country does something wrong, then that of course never happens. And I doubt if funding Planned Parenthood is a sin at all.

But countries do earn and suffer the consequences of their karma just like individual humans.

So Israel will eventually face ‘punishment’ for its treatment of Palestinians. The US will pay for the unjustified invasion of Iraq (or it may already have because of all the problems that has caused).

Countries can not get away with doing wrong, just like individual humans can not.

Gods justice covers everybody - individuals, organizations, institutions as well as countries .

 

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