Does God violate our free will by making us die

[oliver109]

Surely going to Confession(as long as you are going with the intent to refrain from sinful activity) is already a sign that one is saved? I just cannot see God allowing a frequent confesser to die in a state of mortal sin.

 

[Fauken]

I just cannot see God allowing a frequent confesser to die in a state of mortal sin.

Confession gets rid of mortal sins currently on the soul. While frequent confession gives us the graces to resist committing them again, it does not forgive nor necessarily prevent mortal sins from being committed in the future, because, as with all sin, mortal sin is a choice. And we can refuse the graces given to us.

 

[oliver109]

I still think that the sort of person that goes to Confession frequently is not the sort of person that deserves to go to Hell, they may commit sin after going to Confession but surely it is the intention to receive forgiveness that matters in the end?

 

[snarflemike]

I still think that the sort of person that goes to Confession frequently is not the sort of person that deserves to go to Hell

Think about what you are saying. Is a person who goes to confession frequently very likely to commit mortal sin (grave matter, full knowledge and full consent of the will)? And commit mortal sin without remorse and an intention to repent and confess? I don’t think you are describing actual human beings, but rather figments, fictional straw men.

 

[oliver109]

No they are unlikely to commit mortal sin but it is still a possibility, hence my priest was shocked when I told him in Confession about how many mortal sins I had committed in the space of 1 week. I am describing a situation regarding myself, not some figment of the imagination.

 

[snarflemike]

Really, so multiple times in one week you, who goes to confession frequently, committed a grave sin, with full knowledge that it was a grave sin, and with full consent of the will to do it anyway?

 

[oliver109]

Absolutely I did, the fact is that I just found it too easy to give in to temptations, I failed sadly.

 

[butterlover]

Below I have copied some paragraphs from another website, which are about the Divine Mercy revelations. I read many years ago a small pamphlet about final mercy given to people who die suddenly, as in horrible accidents or whatnot. It said that as God’s mercy is endless, (and as below) if someone is in sin but has no chance to confess it, if they truly repent even a second before death, they are offered a final meeting with Jesus to obtain great mercy and foregiveness. This particular pamphlet I don’t remember the name of, but it was published very soon after the events of 9/11 and wanted to give hope to people who are afraid of either themselves or their relatives and friends of dying suddenly, with no sacraments.

Here is the selection from the website:
"God’s Powerful Final Grace of Mercy

We look to what St. Faustina tells us about caring spiritually for the dying, especially those who die suddenly without the Sacraments, and this gives us great hope.

St. Faustina tells us in the Diary:
"I often attend upon the dying and through entreaties obtain for them trust in God’s mercy, and I implore God for an abundance of divine grace, which is always victorious. God’s mercy sometimes touches the sinner at the last moment in a wondrous and mysterious way. Outwardly, it seems as if everything were lost, but it is not so. The soul, illumined by a ray of God’s powerful final grace, turns to God in the last moment with such a power of love that, in an instant, it receives from God forgiveness of sin and punishment, while outwardly it shows no sign either of repentance or of contrition, because souls [at that stage] no longer react to external things.

Oh, how beyond comprehension is God’s mercy! Although a person is at the point of death, the merciful God gives the soul that interior vivid moment, so that if the soul is willing, it has the possibility of returning to God."(1698)

Realizing God’s mercy is infinite and incomprehensible, what St. Faustina is telling us is that God directly intervenes with the soul, giving the soul the last chance for true contrition and salvation, despite the fact that no sacramental Confession or the Anointing of the Sick was possible. THIS IS INCREDIBLE MERCY!"

Struggling with sin, especially repetitive sins, must be very hard for you! I have been stuck in cycles too. Frequent confession helped, but ultimately i had to make other changes to things in my life that were causing me indirectly to get back into the patterns of sinning the same sins over and over again.

Even as you try to not fall, but fall again, remember that as long as you repent and intend to confess your sins, this great mercy may be granted to you should be stuck in a situation where your death seems to be imminent. You should not count on it, but you should keep it in mind, with humility. Again, this mercy is not at all meant to replace confession, but (as i read it) is only offered to those whose die suddenly and whose souls are in great peril at that moment.

 

[oliver109]

That is beautiful, I think that this teaching from St Faustina needs to be taught more in the church, it is so comforting and makes one feel less stressed as it helps us feel confident that God is never going to abandon us unless we refuse him at the last moment and I imagine few would do such a thing!

 

[Elf01]

Really, so multiple times in one week you, who goes to confession frequently, committed a grave sin, with full knowledge that it was a grave sin, and with full consent of the will to do it anyway?

I know someone in an adulterous relationship who goes to Confession with no intentions of ending the relationship.

 

[Gorgias]

Surely going to Confession(as long as you are going with the intent to refrain from sinful activity) is already a sign that one is saved?

“Saved”? No. One is “saved” when he dies and is not in the state of mortal sin; that is, one who dies in a state of grace is saved.

Some Protestant theologies teach that, once you’re ‘saved’, you can never lose salvation. That’s not what the Catholic Church teaches, though.

I just cannot see God allowing a frequent confesser to die in a state of mortal sin.

Let’s take an example. Let’s suppose that a person is a churchgoer, and a frequent recipient of absolution in the sacrament of reconciliation. In a moment of anger and hatred, he guns down his neighbor. He’s not contrite about it, and he doesn’t go to confession. Two weeks later, he dies. The Church teaches that, since he’s in a state of mortal sin, he does not attain to heaven. Do you disagree?

Think about what you are saying. Is a person who goes to confession frequently very likely to commit mortal sin (grave matter, full knowledge and full consent of the will)? And commit mortal sin without remorse and an intention to repent and confess?

This is a good point. It’s possible, but we’d hope that it is unlikely (except in thought experiments!)…

Really, so multiple times in one week you, who goes to confession frequently, committed a grave sin, with full knowledge that it was a grave sin, and with full consent of the will to do it anyway?

This probably isn’t the place to talk about another (real) person’s sinfulness. In any case, I’m guessing that Oliver is contrite whenever he sins. In that case, he should have a firm resolve to go to confession as soon as is reasonably possible, and he’ll be fine. No “hit by a bus and going straight to hell” in that scenario!

 

[oliver109]

Why would going to Confession frequently not be a sign that one is at favour with God? people do not go to Confession unless they are actively choosing Heaven, agree? on the gun killing scenario I would say that the person who did the murder would probably not be contrite about it in the seconds after the shooting, I think on the other hand most God focused people would soon start to feel contrite after whatever wrong they had done so I think that it is unlikely that the killer would be able to be worthy of Heaven. Though I will add that in some situations our emotions can make it very hard to get rid of angry thoughts or feelings, I have personally been through situations where I have felt intense hatred for others because of wrongs they have done against me and only a lot of time has healed and helped me finally forgive.

 

[Elf01]

Why would going to Confession frequently not be a sign that one is at favour with God? people do not go to Confession unless they are actively choosing Heaven, agree?

As I said. I know someone in an adulterous relationship.who goes to Confession with no intention of changing.

 

[oliver109]

Then why do they go? do they see it as more of a counselling service?

 

[Elf01]

Then why do they go? do they see it as more of a counselling service?

I really don’t know. I think the fact that most priests (apparently) absolve them encourages them. Otherwise they know the teachings and are OK with taking time to go to Mass and Confession. Just don’t ask them to live the faith they claim to have if it involves them really changing their life.

 

[RoseScented]

There was a time in my life that I went to Confession purely so that I could answer my parents that I had been. I had no intention of changing and saw no problem with what I was doing. I did it so I wouldn’t be deceiving my parents; apparently they concerned me more than God. There was also some comfort in the familiar activity. To say I didn’t know what I was doing and didn’t understand how grave something was was a very tempting prospect to run from the guilt, but it’s something I live with knowing at that time I would’ve been furious with anyone taking me the correct path. I fully understand how someone can knowingly choose Hell and be glad for its existence.

Thank the Lord he was so patient and welcoming when I got myself together.