Does God want everyone to be Catholic?

[OldProf]

I really like your cowardly reply.
There is nothing that a non believer can not do that a believer can do.
You can not tell me that believers have some special way of doing good. They can’t and don’t have any superiority in goodness.

“Cowardly” - Really?

Your argument is refuted out of hand.

28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’

Can the unbeliever keep that commandment? Not if he is an unbeliever.

The unbeliever is, in a word, unrighteous. And all unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17).

Regards, OldProf

 

[OldProf]

And when is it that one can do good works? Is it from one’s election (#1)? Or after one atones (#2)? Or some other number?

And please cite your Scripture verse to support your numerical choice.

After spiritual birth - regeneration. Regeneration is followed immediately by faith and repentance and justification, and then sanctification begins. The glorified body is a heavenly experience to look forward to.

Verse reference:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

A believer will suddenly be concerned with bringing glory to God. The works toward that end are righteous works.

Regards, OldProf

 

[StrawberryJam]

“Cowardly” - Really?

Your argument is refuted out of hand.

28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’

Can the unbeliever keep that commandment? Not if he is an unbeliever.

The unbeliever is, in a word, unrighteous. And all unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17).

Regards, OldProf

You are a coward because you never addressed my question.
My question was what can a believer do that a non believer can not do that is good?

You can not and will never be able to come up with a reply to that, so you give me your bible that says I am doomed because I don’t believe in the earth being 10,000 years old or Adam and Eve to be literal because that would mean I would have to be totally ignorant of science to do so! That is why I am here, looking at this whole thing from a far and hoping this new pope is going to help the world see that hating reality is not helping the cause for the Church. It is only keeping the illiterate more so.

 

[Brendan_64]

Post deleted. I misunderstood the post I was replying to.

 

[PRmerger]

After spiritual birth - regeneration. Regeneration is followed immediately by faith and repentance and justification, and then sanctification begins. The glorified body is a heavenly experience to look forward to.

Verse reference:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

A believer will suddenly be concerned with bringing glory to God. The works toward that end are righteous works.

Regards, OldProf

Where does that verse say that good works come AFTER one is regenerated, but not before?

Also, how was it, then, that Cornelius was able to do good works when he had not yet been re-generated? It appears that your position is that when one is a member of the elect that one can do good works from the moment of one’s election, yes?

 

[Arrowsmith1994]

Old Prof,

This is a thread about whether or not God wants all people to be Catholic. God wants all people to come to Him through is Son and to follow all the teachings that the Son gave to the apostles. So return to John 6, how do you follow Jesus’ commandment to “eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man”?

 

[paul_c]

paul c, that may be the case with Pope Francis. But of the news articles I read that was not the message that came across.

You can’t trust the theological interpretations of the Huffington Post, now can you? read the actual words of Pope Francis on the Vatican News feed to see what he actually said.

I want to clarify my view. So, here’s how I see the biblical case for just who can and who cannot do good works.

Believer: The believer is one of the elect. Chosen by God, regenerated, spiritually alive, and one of Jesus’ sheep (known by Jesus) that will never perish but will be raised up on the last day. The beliver can do and does do good works.

This is your first theological error. Just because you believe in Jesus does not mean you will go to heaven and it does not mean you will do good works. Faith without works is dead (James 2) If you have faith enough to move mountains but do not have love, you are nothing (1Cor 13). Not all that call me Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7)

I’m sure I don’t have to quote a bunch of verses, but maybe one:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

You continue to misinterpret this verse. Grace Is freely given, but to stay in the state of grace, you must do the good works that God prepared for you.

Nuff said.

Do you still think so?

Unbeliever: The unbeliever is spiritually dead and not one of God’s elect. Jesus never knows him/her. They cannot do ANY good works on their own. Why? Being “dead,” they simply don’t have any ability to do so.

Yes, unbelievers are made in the image of God.
Yes, unbelievers do many “good” things, like showing genuine, unselfish love for their families, sometimes even better than many believers.

But, if this “good” in them is only because of God as source, then they really don’t get any credit for their “good works.” Lets see.

Don’t you understand that unbelievers can become believers. Don’t you believe in redemption and conversion? Unbelievers aren’t spiritually dead until they actually die in that state. Up until then their spirit is alive and they are potential converts to the faith.

1. Unbelievers doing “good”:

Deuteronomy 5:28 They [the Israelites who left Egypt, the majority of which turned out to be unbelievers] have done well in all that they have spoken.

Matthew 7:11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children…

Luke 6:33 If you do good to those who do good to you…even sinners do the same.

Romans 5:7 Perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.

Its unfortunate that the dark view of mankind expressed by Calvin has blinded you to the true meaning of these verses. People are always instructed by their consciences to do the right thing. Why do you deny that some who are presently unbelievers still listen to their consciences?

1. The unbeliever’s big problem:

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?

Mark 10:18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.”

Romans 3:12 They have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no, not one.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

Again, Old Prof, you deny that some unbelievers do indeed convert and come to the faith. You can’t judge a person’s eternal disposition from their current status. As long as they live, they have the opportunity to reconcile with God.

 

[paul_c]

1. The real source of “good” in the unbeliever cannot be from the unbeliever:

Romans 8:7 The mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so.

Romans 14:23 Whatever is not from faith is sin.

Sin is the work of the unbeliever. Their “good”, while it may very well be from altruistic rather than purely selfish motives, it certainly isn’t from a true faith in God. If the greatest commandment is to love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength (Mark 12:30), then anything we do that is not at some core level an act of such love for God is fundamentally worthless and “like a filthy garment” (Isaiah 64:6).

You are assuming that unbelievers are sinners. That is not necessarily true. There is the possibility that a person never heard of Christ but still follows the natural law.
The church recognizes that such a person could be saved.

1. The unbeliever is restrained:

So how do we explain how it is that fallen man is able to do such deeds in the first place? The difficulty is brought out in the following Scriptures:

Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

Matthew 12:34 You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure that which is evil.

In these verses the Lord is clearly using the terms good tree and good man to refer to those who are truly good (i.e., those born again with new natures), not to those who are simply “good” in the broader sense. His point is that good fruit cannot spring from a fallen nature. So how can the natural man produce fruit that can be described as “good” in any true sense at all?

Isn’t the implication of Scripture that when the natural man does things that are “good,” he is not acting out of his own fallen nature, but rather God is sovereignly overriding his nature and producing the good deed in him in spite of his evil nature. God’s restraint is a logical inference and one that is at least hinted at in several passages:

Genesis 20:6 I [God] also kept you [Abimelech] from sinning against Me…

Ezra 7:27 Blessed be the Lord…who has put such a [good] thing as this in the the king’s heart…

Psalm 16:2 My goodness is nothing apart from You.

The tragedy is that natural man does not recognize this sovereign, silent work of God in his life. This is a big part of why he has such a hard time realizing that his “good deeds” are as worthless as filthy rags in God’s sight. He does not think of his “goodness” as springing from God, as David did, but rather imagines it to spring from his own nature.

You are right that good works come from God, even when the faithless do them.
and you are right that they typically don’t understand that, at least initially. but the Spirit is a powerful force and many will ultimately convert.

So, bottom line, don’t tell the atheist that he/she does good works. They will use it to justify themselves. But the truth is that only God is the source of “good.” He gets the glory!

Regards, OldProf

I trust Pope Francis’s pastoral abilities far more than I trust yours. He sees that if you praise the good works of the atheists, that will encourage them to do more good works. And if they start doing good works habitually, they will find themselves increasingly in the company of Christians and if they do that, there is an increased chance of conversion. Isn’t that a lot better than telling them they are incapable of doing good.

 

[paul_c]

Yes, I do agree with those two Scriptural truths. God regenerates the elect (John 6:44), and leaves the non-elect dead, in trespasses and sin. The spiritually dead do not have the ability to do anything good - they’re dead, not sick, dead.

These are not spiritual truths, they are Calvin’s heresy. God does not predetermine that anyone is condemned to hell before they are born. Calvin had such a low view of both God and Man. He viewed man as nothing more than an automaton, incapable of expressing his free will in any meaningful way and the God of Calvin is a tyrant. Nowhere in scripture will you find that a man was condemned to hell before he was born. and Nowhere does it say that any man is spiritually dead while he still has the opportunity to repent.

I think my post explained this. If not, please let me know what specifically in my post you disagree with.

Frankly, all that your post explained was that you are a Calvinist.

 

[Chez]

paul c, PRmerger, PeaceInChrist, and all of my other Catholic brothers and sisters who defend the Catholic Faith as well as you do… Thank You!

I’m incredibly impressed and appreciative of all of you.

I love Jesus Christ, and His Holy Catholic Church with all my heart and soul. And by extension, all of you… You truly give me inspiration.

Keep up the “good work”, and
God Bless!

 

[PRmerger]

paul c, PRmerger, PeaceInChrist, and all of my other Catholic brothers and sisters who defend the Catholic Faith as well as you do… Thank You!

I’m incredibly impressed and appreciative of all of you.

I love Jesus Christ, and His Holy Catholic Church with all my heart and soul. And by extension, all of you… You truly give me inspiration.

Keep up the “good work”, and
God Bless!

:tiphat:

 

[pocohombre]

After spiritual birth - regeneration. Regeneration is followed immediately by faith and repentance and justification, and then sanctification begins. The glorified body is a heavenly experience to look forward to.

Verse reference:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

A believer will suddenly be concerned with bringing glory to God. The works toward that end are righteous works.

Regards, OldProf

Keep on keeping, good to see “your” responses Blessings and illumination to all…

 

[paul_c]

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldProf View Post
After spiritual birth - regeneration. Regeneration is followed immediately by faith and repentance and justification, and then sanctification begins. The glorified body is a heavenly experience to look forward to.

you both completely misunderstand Ephesians 2: 8-10. No where does it say anything about predestination or the sequence that Old Prof defines. Parse it out.

For by grace you have been saved through faith.and that not of yourselves Grace is freely given to those who have faith. It is not earned. You see, baptism is freely given to those who ask for it in good faith with the desire to become active Christians. There is no criteria, no checklist. Just desire to be with Christ.

it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast Again, you don’t earn baptism, you ask for it.

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
So after we are baptized, we enter the state of grace. To stay there, we must do the good works we were born to do.

Note, this verse describes the economy of salvation but you don’t understand the Tradition in which it was written so you are mislead into thinking that it speaks of predestination in the absence of free will. It does not. I have attempted to explain to you the Catholic understanding of this verse. Can you see how it applies and is self consistent with the Catholic teaching of the the grace provided through baptism?

 

[Michael_Francis]

i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/offtopicyoda-1.jpg
Return to the thread topic you must and remain there or this thread will be closed. Does God want everyone to be Catholic?

 

[Chez]

Alright, let’s return to the topic. Does God want everyone to be Catholic?

I don’t know that God speaks in such terms as “Catholic”. But I do know that He left us with a Church two thousand years ago… And “universal” seems obvious to me!

But the plain truth is, humans can be very stubborn, hard hearted and weak!.. And His Church is not very accommodating to people who insist on staying in that spiritually ill place!

Oh, I’m not saying that there are not plenty of Catholics who are in that state… And for a while there, Protestantism was creeping its way into Christ’s one true Church. Unfortunately, it left us with a whole lot of “cafeteria Catholics” and a few malformed Priests and Bishops!

But as Jesus Christ Himself promised… The gates of hell will not prevail against His Church. And I believe that we are finally waking up from that nightmare!

So, as some Catholics who profess to love Jesus, grow tired going to Confession because they are unwilling to let go of certain sins. They’ll head over to a man made church that tells them… Once saved, always saved, and then they’ll go on, making a career of bashing the Catholic Church to ease their guilty conscience.

And as some Protestants grow a bit wiser, and realize how ridiculous once saved, always saved truly is… They will start to read the Bible without their Protestant blinders on, and they will eventually find their way home to the one true Church Jesus Christ left for them all those years ago!

 

[berk60]

My brother, I enjoy that quote from Ephesians. What do you make of this, from James 2:

**14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?[c] 15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder.**

Is this an outright contradiction? Or perhaps we must take it in context with all Scripture? If we look at Scripture as a whole, and not at isolated instances, we will see that ‘believing in Jesus’ means far more than simply declaring it. We will see that both faith and works are required, and that the Lord will separate the sheep and the goats (both of which call Jesus ‘Lord’), and do so based on works.

In 1 John we also see that sin separates us from God, and that we must not sin:

4 He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6 he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

Yet John also says that if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate in Jesus Christ. It conforms perfectly to the Sacrament of Penance and the Catholic view of sanctification and salvation.

If we take Scripture as a whole, instead of emphasizing certain parts and downplaying others, we will come soundly to Scripture which conforms to Catholic doctrine.

I totally agree with you that once we have Jesus as our Lord we should be involved in good words of helping others where ever we can as stated in Ephesians 2:10 **“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” **
These good works are not in order to maintain or earn our salvation but a change from the old man to the new.
We all sin but we are being sanctified by the God of peace to be conformed into the image of Christ. This will not totally take place while still in this fallen nature and that’s why we have Jesus as the one to whom we confess to if we should fall.

  **"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned , we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10**

It seems that the only difference we have is where our relationship lies. Is it with the Church or just between oneself and God? I personally have chosen a relationship just between myself and Gos by accepting the gift that He has offered through Jesus. Now I live not for myself but for my Lord and follow where He leads me in good works and sanctification through the Helper, the Holy Spirit. Is this wrong because I don’t follow the Catholic Church concept of baptism, communion, penance?

The answer from the Catholic point of view would be yes it is wrong because without taking part of these there is no salvation. Just by that answer if that is what you hold, it says that salvation is based on Jesus and man. This is in error because God is the only one who can accomplish our salvation and there is nothing we can do in sacraments to add to or insure what God has already done on the cross.

This is not easy believe-ism but giving God all the glory and then living a life dedicated to Him following the convictions of the Holy Spirit to avoid sin and love others.

 

[paul_c]

I totally agree with you that once we have Jesus as our Lord we should be involved in good words of helping others where ever we can as stated in Ephesians 2:10 “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”
These good works are not in order to maintain or earn our salvation but a change from the old man to the new.

Doing good works does indeed signify the changing of the old man to the new, but if we fail to do those good works, we revert to the old man of sin from the new man of Christ. As a Catholic you would refer to the new man of Christ as being in the state of grace. When we revert to the old man of sin, we “fall from grace.”

We all sin but we are being sanctified by the God of peace to be conformed into the image of Christ. This will not totally take place while still in this fallen nature and that’s why we have Jesus as the one to whom we confess to if we should fall.
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned , we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” 1 John 1:8-10

yes, this is an appeal to sacramental confession. When we confess our sins to the priest, he absolves us of our sins with this prayer:
God the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of your son, you have reconciled the world to yourself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins. Through the ministry of the church, may God grant you pardon and peace. And I absolve you of your sins, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. . With this we return to the state of grace (the New man, in your terminology)

It seems that the only difference we have is where our relationship lies. Is it with the Church or just between oneself and God? I personally have chosen a relationship just between myself and Gos by accepting the gift that He has offered through Jesus. Now I live not for myself but for my Lord and follow where He leads me in good works and sanctification through the Helper, the Holy Spirit. Is this wrong because I don’t follow the Catholic Church concept of baptism, communion, penance?

Of course its wrong. Look at what you wrote above. YOU HAVE PERSONALLY CHOSEN to define your relationship with Jesus. Problem is, you don’t get to make that choice. Jesus set up his Church to administer the sacraments and preach the sacred truths to all nations. In St. Paul’s words, the church is the BODY of CHRIST. So when you unilaterally define a relationship that is in opposition to the way Jesus established it, don’t you wonder whether that relationship is actually a fulfilled relationship at all? And don’t you think its a bit presumptuous for you to define how YOU want to interact with your Lord and savior?

The answer from the Catholic point of view would be yes it is wrong because without taking part of these there is no salvation. Just by that answer if that is what you hold, it says that salvation is based on Jesus and man. This is in error because God is the only one who can accomplish our salvation and there is nothing we can do in sacraments to add to or insure what God has already done on the cross.

again, you presume to speak for God. Jesus was the one who set up the sacraments. Why did he set up physical sacraments? Because we are physical beings! Who are you to deny their efficacy?

This is not easy believe-ism but giving God all the glory and then living a life dedicated to Him following the convictions of the Holy Spirit to avoid sin and love others.

This is just as bad as easy believe-ism. Its is forcing God to relate to you on your terms. Be sure that you will never be able to bend the truth to your desires. Instead, you must bend your desires to the truth.

 

[pambarnes1516]

KingJohn, you had said: (Originally Posted by KingJohn View Post)
"I do not think the Catholic Church is the only way to salvation, I think Jesus is. I find it a bit rediculous you guys threaten people with Hell (not all of you, just some) so they can convert. If anything, threatening me with hell makes me less willing to convert. I respect the Catholic tenants and the faith, but there was a thread on this very issue:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=579164

Question: Do Non-catholics go to heaven?

44.51% said “Only God knows”

42.86% said Yes.

6.59% said no.

6.04% said only non-catholic Christians."

You seem to be concerned about the Catholic Church threatening people with hell–I would be too–I’d probably be furious. Hell is difficult. You realize, Christ Himself threatens us with going to Hell if we do not love Him and by love Him I mean act like it. Naturally, if the Master threatens people, His followers probably would too. May not be the best approach, but what can you expect from a bunch of wannabe Jesus’s? Well, He trains some better than others. Getting back to loving Christ or Hell. Now there in lies the question–what does loving Christ look like? Religions have been arguing that question for centuries. Some say it’s faith, some say acts, some say both…we say both and the sacraments because the sacraments are a part of faith. The truth is, love of Christ looks saintly. It looks like a person who eats nothing, breaths nothing, thinks nothing, dreams nothing, does nothing except 3 very important things: 1) Seeks to know God more, 2) Seeks to love God more and 3) Seeks to serve God more! Saints stop at nothing to BE WITH GOD! They DESIRE to suffer for their Divine Master. They would happily (and often did) die a horrific death for God. And it is only a human being in that exact state who can achieve what is necessary to avoid sin altogether. Only a person in the state of avoiding sin will more than likely die pure and holy enough to enjoy God’s presence right away. There are other cases in which God, in order to glorify His mercy, has purified souls at the time of the death, but banking on God to do all the work is not love–it’s chance and presumption. Love of Christ is real mutual love. Its avoiding sin not out of fear of hell but because sin hurts Him and hurting God is like hurting an innocent little baby. God only threatened His children with Hell firstly, because it’s the truth but mainly, because GOD IS DESPERATE for us! God has such an excess of love for us that He threatens us, tells us He loves us, He stalks us constantly, He DIED for us…I mean He is so desperate He will do anything to save us–it is literally His nature to save (hence the name Jesus–God saves!) But as desperate as He is, God knows we can’t be in His presence with even the slightest stain of sin on our consciences. I’ll tell you why…because God is INFINITELY HOLY! That makes, mathematically speaking, even the slightest sin INFINITELY UNHOLY! That makes us INFINITELY guilty once we are enlightened in His actual presence and a soul with that much guilt will not be able to stand itself in comparison to God. Hell is the punishment for being infinitely guilty. The reason God has to punish an infinitely guilty person infinitely is because that is just–and that punishment is infinite separation form Himself. That punishment is merited by all of us because we are all infinite sinners. God has to punish us because if not, He would be unjust and that would be bad. But God knew we could never make up for infinite guilt and God is also infinitely merciful so He sent His Only Begotten Son. Now His son satisfied God’s justice but only as an means of justifying OUR OWN penitential acts. Before Christ came, man could only be sorry and go to paradise–not God’s presence. God was not justified in allowing it because of the His infinitely Holy nature. Without the blood of the lamb, man’s conscience’s would still have been too guilty to live in God’s presence-infinitely is like this. (cont on next post)

 

[pambarnes1516]

But because Christ died, God is now justified to clear our conscience’s and to forgive us all our sins–to make us holy enough as He is Holy but only by saturated us with His own infinitely Holy Spirit which is logically exactly as Holy as Himself. The way that saturation takes place is in the sacraments. Christ justified saturating us (sanctifying us) in His Holy Spirit by dying on the cross! But Christ does not saturate us solely based on His own actions! That would also be unjust! We have to merit our salvation on the cross with Him and in faith of Him. Right now we live in a veil. We live in comparison to other humans–other fallen humans–so we can look great in comparison to them but in comparison to Christ we have to be perfected in the Holy Spirit. Don’t you ever wonder what it is the apostles saw differently about Christ (God) after His resurrection than before? They saw His Holiness! They referred to it as “His Glory” but it was disguised before the resurrection. This is what Martin Luther (founder of Lutheranism) seriously misunderstood. Luther knew of this doctrine of perfection or sanctification and despaired–he truly believed it was impossible to never ever commit a venial sin that would make us merit a punishment-he thought it was impossible to die without any sins on your soul but many–hundreds of great saints have proven him wrong. God can perfect the soul in the Holy Spirit–this is His only desire for us. This is what He suffered a torturous death to give to us–perfection or sanctification in the Spirit-the Spirit of Life. Perfect sounds unreasonable but once you understand what it is and how it is accomplished it is perfectly reasonable. It means being truly sorry for all your sins and avoiding committing further ones at all costs. It means perfect love of God resulting in perfect contrition for our sins and perfect obedience to His Divine Will. Few people, unfortunately reach this point…hence the low percentages you got for who goes straight to Heaven. But it is possible. Did you know that those who truly desire this perfection or sanctification in the Spirit and persevere in asking God to make them love Him perfectly almost always go straight to Heaven (or as Catholics call it, become Saints)? Yeah, most people who desire to be with God ‘for’ God in humility and desire to never sin again truly are lead by Christ Himself. It is good for you to worry so much about the truth. Your desire for truth is placed in your heart by Jesus and He is not likely to leave you alone. He desires all souls to be with Him but you must follow your desire to be with Him until you are dead. You can’t, in pride, be lead to the banquet of faith and then be uneasy about what food the Lord feeds you. He wants to feed you the food of eternal life. Earthly foods (false doctrines/ideologies/theologies) are subject to human decay and confusion. When looking for the eternal food, make sure you stay in contact with the One who is Eternal…pray and search and He will lead You!

 

[StillCatholic]

Alright, let’s return to the topic. Does God want everyone to be Catholic?

I don’t know that God speaks in such terms as “Catholic”. But I do know that He left us with a Church two thousand years ago… And “universal” seems obvious to me!

But the plain truth is, humans can be very stubborn, hard hearted and weak!.. And His Church is not very accommodating to people who insist on staying in that spiritually ill place!

Oh, I’m not saying that there are not plenty of Catholics who are in that state… And for a while there, Protestantism was creeping its way into Christ’s one true Church. Unfortunately, it left us with a whole lot of “cafeteria Catholics” and a few malformed Priests and Bishops!

But as Jesus Christ Himself promised… The gates of hell will not prevail against His Church. And I believe that we are finally waking up from that nightmare!

So, as some Catholics who profess to love Jesus, grow tired going to Confession because they are unwilling to let go of certain sins. They’ll head over to a man made church that tells them… Once saved, always saved, and then they’ll go on, making a career of bashing the Catholic Church to ease their guilty conscience.

And as some Protestants grow a bit wiser, and realize how ridiculous once saved, always saved truly is… They will start to read the Bible without their Protestant blinders on, and they will eventually find their way home to the one true Church Jesus Christ left for them all those years ago!

:clapping: YAY! Right on! I was thinking about that today as I listened to yet another conversion story from a former Evangelical/ Protestant TO Catholic believer. When I left the Catholic church in 1974 I learned the verse, “If the Spirit sets you free, you will be free indeed.” John 8:36 I think that is. So, outside the Catholic church, boy did I feel set free. After all, once saved always saved and I was a fierce defender of that.

Over the years that followed I discovered that what I thought was a freedom of the Spirit, was actually a freedom from precepts I didn’t care to follow/obey. That eventually caught up with me and now that verse is still my favorite, I’m back in the Catholic church once more, but the freedom I am now experiencing is true freedom, the freedom to worship without fear or condemnation. I have now committed myself to mother church and obeying its precepts. What a breath of fresh air it truly is.