Does God want everyone to be Catholic?

[PeaceInChrist]

I don’t see anything freeing about no eternal security that is promoted by the Catholic faith. To even have a chance you must keep all the sacrament as a lay person and then most likely when you die your suffering doesn’t end there and only God knows how long you will need to be purged in purgatory until you fit for the Kingdom of God. Whoever leaves this faith will have no part in salvation unless he returns to it.

I have seeked God with all my heart and He led me out of the Catholic faith and into the reality of His truth as found in the Bible and I’m trying to show you that reality but it seems you do not want any part of it. That is certainly your choice as God has given us a free will.

** “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:8-10**

My brother, I enjoy that quote from Ephesians. What do you make of this, from James 2:

**14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?[c] 15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder.**

Is this an outright contradiction? Or perhaps we must take it in context with all Scripture? If we look at Scripture as a whole, and not at isolated instances, we will see that ‘believing in Jesus’ means far more than simply declaring it. We will see that both faith and works are required, and that the Lord will separate the sheep and the goats (both of which call Jesus ‘Lord’), and do so based on works.

In 1 John we also see that sin separates us from God, and that we must not sin:

4 He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6 he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

Yet John also says that if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate in Jesus Christ. It conforms perfectly to the Sacrament of Penance and the Catholic view of sanctification and salvation.

If we take Scripture as a whole, instead of emphasizing certain parts and downplaying others, we will come soundly to Scripture which conforms to Catholic doctrine.

 

[aemcpa]

Whoever leaves this faith will have no part in salvation unless he returns to it.

I have seeked God with all my heart and He led me out of the Catholic faith and into the reality of His truth as found in the Bible and I’m trying to show you that reality but it seems you do not want any part of it. That is certainly your choice as God has given us a free will.

Odd that you acknowledge free will in one breath, and yet deny that man would have free will to reject the salvation that is given once because of a single act of faith earlier in life.

I’m not sure why anybody would accept that you can explain the Bible to them but the Church who wrote and compiled it, and who preaches it daily from the pulpit, throughout the Mass and in all of her manifold ministries, cannot.

I don’t doubt your sincerity, but God does not lead anyone away from the Catholic faith, so it must have been somebody else.

 

[paul_c]

I don’t see anything freeing about no eternal security that is promoted by the Catholic faith.

So you want God to guarantee that you will go to heaven, even if you don’t do His will? Surely you can see that no such guarantee would ever be given by God. God wants you to be holy as He is holy. If you are truly seeking God, then you will seek to be like Him. Jesus was here not only to redeem us but to give an example by His life of how to live our own lives. Following God’s will for you is immensely freeing because that is why you were created. When you feel burdened, it is because your desires are in opposition with God’s will and such desires lead to anxiety and death, not fulfillment

To even have a chance you must keep all the sacrament as a lay person and then most likely when you die your suffering doesn’t end there and only God knows how long you will need to be purged in purgatory until you fit for the Kingdom of God. Whoever leaves this faith will have no part in salvation unless he returns to it.

The sacraments are not a burden, but a gift from God if accepted. Lets review:

• Baptism: frees you from sin and puts you in the state of grace.
• The Eucharist: You become one with God by eating his body and drinking his blood
• Confirmation: You get the 7-fold gifts of the Holy Spirit.
• Reconciliation: You are freed of your sins
• Anointing of the Sick: You get physical and spiritual healing
• Matrimony: you are united with your spouse for the creation of life
• Holy Orders: You gain the ability to administer God’s sacraments and to preach his word.

Why do you see these great gifts as a burden?

I have seeked God with all my heart and He led me out of the Catholic faith and into the reality of His truth as found in the Bible

Lets review what you’ve said above. You wanted God’s guarantee of heaven but you weren’t willing to partake of the sacraments that He offered to get you there because they were too burdensome. So you sought a different reality as offered by a Protestant church that told you that the Bible said all you needed to do was to believe Jesus will save you. Do you think Satan could have been any more effective in getting you to forsake the life giving sacraments?

and I’m trying to show you that reality but it seems you do not want any part of it. That is certainly your choice as God has given us a free will.

You are kidding, right? You want me to give up the One True Faith, the one taught by Jesus to the apostles and passed down faithfully by the Church, to follow you because you say there is an easier way? CAn you show proof of the validity of what you say? Some sign that you are more inspired than the Catholic Church?

** “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:8-10**

Do you really understand what St. Paul is saying here?. Jesus died for you, not because of anything you did but because it is a gift from God. But why were you created? For good works. You see, we are made to do God’s will for us and only when we fulfill that destiny will we be happy. it is not enough to have faith in Jesus. You must also have Love for God and your fellow man.

 

[aemcpa]

Do you really understand what St. Paul is saying here?. Jesus died for you, not because of anything you did but because it is a gift from God. But why were you created? For good works. You see, we are made to do God’s will for us and only when we fulfill that destiny will we be happy. it is not enough to have faith in Jesus. You must also have Love for God and your fellow man.

The Sacraments are not “works”. They ARE the grace of God.

 

[paul_c]

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul c View Post
Do you really understand what St. Paul is saying here?. Jesus died for you, not because of anything you did but because it is a gift from God. But why were you created? For good works. You see, we are made to do God’s will for us and only when we fulfill that destiny will we be happy. it is not enough to have faith in Jesus. You must also have Love for God and your fellow man.

I’m confused about your comment. Did you think I was suggesting that Ephesians 2: 8-10 were directed at the sacraments? I was not. I was talking about works of love, as was St. Paul. But be careful, works are actions by definition. And we need to take action to gain the grace of the sacraments. And by this, I don’t mean that we are given grace because we earn it. I mean, to get the grace of the Eucharist, you must partake of it. To get the grace of reconciliation, you must confess your sins contritely to a priest and do the required penance. these require concrete choices followed by concrete actions.

 

[aemcpa]

I’m confused about your comment. Did you think I was suggesting that Ephesians 2: 8-10 were directed at the sacraments? I was not. I was talking about works of love, as was St. Paul. But be careful, works are actions by definition. And we need to take action to gain the grace of the sacraments. And by this, I don’t mean that we are given grace because we earn it. I mean, to get the grace of the Eucharist, you must partake of it. To get the grace of reconciliation, you must confess your sins contritely to a priest and do the required penance. these require concrete choices followed by concrete actions.

My comment was in support of yours. I fully agree with this post. My point was against the Protestant assertion that the Sacraments are useless “works” in the sense that St. Paul meant.

 

[feistmyster]

Silly question really an impossible mission for man to achieve! If god does not know that as he made man in his own image and he has proven without a doubt he is far from perfect!

 

[OldProf]

clip …
Its not shocking that the Pope would teach that atheists can do good works. St. Paul testified to this fact in Romans where he discussed the concept of the Natural law. But if you asked Pope Francis if God wants everyone to be Catholic, I am pretty sure he would say , " yes, that’s the point of the new evangelization."

Can atheists do good works? I don’t think so because the Bible doesn’t allow it. For example:

God said:

"The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one." Psalm 14:1-3

Jesus said:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." John 3:16-21

"Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead." Matthew 8:22

Paul said:

**"As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one; there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no, not one.”" Romans 3:10-12**

"For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:20-23

"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:1-10

So, question, does the Bible teach that the spiritually DEAD can do good works? No, it does not. Nor does it leave any room for atheists to feel that it is okay for them to reject God. In Jude 1:3, we are to “earnestly contend for the faith” - how do we do that when we tell the atheist they can do good works? Look at the response from the atheists in some of these news articles (a lot out there now). This secular applause and attitude of “finally they recognize the we can be moral and good” - is that our evangelistic call? Instead, let’s share the verses above and show the atheist their spiritual bankruptcy and true and desperate need for a Savior. Isn’t that really a truth worth sharing?

Biblically, we know that true “good works” bring God the glory - it is an attitude thing, that is, good works done with the right attitude, and in righteousness. Non-Christians can never bring God glory!

If I’m wrong, please correct me.

Regards, OldProf

 

[paul_c]

Can atheists do good works? I don’t think so because the Bible doesn’t allow it.

Old Prof, Really? You think the Bible makes it impossible for atheist to do good works? Why would the bible do such a thing, even if it could (which it can’t because its a book)? God calls out to every man to do his will through his conscience. A person does not have to believe in God to feel good about himself when he aids his neighbor nor does he have to believe in God to feel guilty when he sins. That is what Paul was talking about in his discussion about the interior law

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 2: 12-16[/BIBLEDRB]

Clearly you must have seen non-believers do some works of charity at some point. Pope Francis is saying that when they do that, they should be applauded and that will be the first step toward their evangelization and eventual salvation. Jesus met the sinner where they were and then brought them to himself. He didn’t come to condemn but to save.

For example:

God said:

"The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one." Psalm 14:1-3

read the rest of the Psalm, it is the opening of a warning against those fools not to oppress the poor. You really need to work on understanding bible versus in the context of the tradition in which they were written.

Jesus said:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." John 3:16-21

Do you notice that God did not send Jesus to condemn but to save? There are many on this board who were once atheists but are now Catholic. As long as you live, there is an opportunity for repentance.

"Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead." Matthew 8:22

How does this apply?

 

[paul_c]

Paul said:

**"As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one; there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no, not one.”" Romans 3:10-12**

this is just a restatement of Psalm 14, which we already discussed.

"For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:20-23

This doesn’t say atheist can’t do good works. it merely contrasts lives of sin with lives of love.

"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:1-10

Doesn’t this speak to God’s mercy to sinners? isn’t that what Pope Francis was talking about? God reaches out to all men. We need to encourage even the unbeliever, because by our love we show them the way to salvation.

So, question, does the Bible teach that the spiritually DEAD can do good works? No, it does not. Nor does it leave any room for atheists to feel that it is okay for them to reject God.

No one said its okay to reject God. Pope Francis was merely pointing out that when atheists do the right thing, that should be recognized and that through our encouragement of good behavior, we can lead them out of darkness and into the light.

In Jude 1:3, we are to “earnestly contend for the faith” - how do we do that when we tell the atheist they can do good works? Look at the response from the atheists in some of these news articles (a lot out there now). This secular applause and attitude of “finally they recognize the we can be moral and good” - is that our evangelistic call? Instead, let’s share the verses above and show the atheist their spiritual bankruptcy and true and desperate need for a Savior. Isn’t that really a truth worth sharing?

You save no one through condemnation. You are limited by the Calvinistic view that all men are depraved, but it is not true. Men were made in the image and likeness of God. Pope Francis is doing a tremendous job of evangelization, not by condemning, not by appeasing, but by simply speaking the truth and recognizing that everyone is at a different point in their spiritual journey. Afterall, Everyone is an unbeliever until they come to believe,

Biblically, we know that true “good works” bring God the glory - it is an attitude thing, that is, good works done with the right attitude, and in righteousness. Non-Christians can never bring God glory!

If I’m wrong, please correct me.

Regards, OldProf

It is true that only works done out of love have spiritual benefit. This is brought out in Matthew 6, where those that give alms, pray, and fast for the purpose of popular acclaim, will not be rewarded in heaven because they have already got their reward. Nevertheless, doing good works even for the wrong reasons is a start toward holiness. Pope Francis is simply encouraging them to continue doing so because in working side by side with believers, they might come to see the light.

 

[OldProf]

Clip … Pope Francis is simply encouraging them to continue doing so because in working side by side with believers, they might come to see the light.

paul c, that may be the case with Pope Francis. But of the news articles I read that was not the message that came across. I want to clarify my view. So, here’s how I see the biblical case for just who can and who cannot do good works.

Believer: The believer is one of the elect. Chosen by God, regenerated, spiritually alive, and one of Jesus’ sheep (known by Jesus) that will never perish but will be raised up on the last day. The beliver can do and does do good works.

I’m sure I don’t have to quote a bunch of verses, but maybe one:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Nuff said.

Unbeliever: The unbeliever is spiritually dead and not one of God’s elect. Jesus never knows him/her. They cannot do ANY good works on their own. Why? Being “dead,” they simply don’t have any ability to do so.

Yes, unbelievers are made in the image of God.
Yes, unbelievers do many “good” things, like showing genuine, unselfish love for their families, sometimes even better than many believers.

But, if this “good” in them is only because of God as source, then they really don’t get any credit for their “good works.” Lets see.

1. Unbelievers doing “good”:

Deuteronomy 5:28 They [the Israelites who left Egypt, the majority of which turned out to be unbelievers] have done well in all that they have spoken.

Matthew 7:11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children…

Luke 6:33 If you do good to those who do good to you…even sinners do the same.

Romans 5:7 Perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.

1. The unbeliever’s big problem:

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?

Mark 10:18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.”

Romans 3:12 They have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no, not one.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

1. The real source of “good” in the unbeliever cannot be from the unbeliever:

Romans 8:7 The mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so.

Romans 14:23 Whatever is not from faith is sin.

Sin is the work of the unbeliever. Their “good”, while it may very well be from altruistic rather than purely selfish motives, it certainly isn’t from a true faith in God. If the greatest commandment is to love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength (Mark 12:30), then anything we do that is not at some core level an act of such love for God is fundamentally worthless and “like a filthy garment” (Isaiah 64:6).

1. The unbeliever is restrained:

So how do we explain how it is that fallen man is able to do such deeds in the first place? The difficulty is brought out in the following Scriptures:

Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

Matthew 12:34 You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure that which is evil.

In these verses the Lord is clearly using the terms good tree and good man to refer to those who are truly good (i.e., those born again with new natures), not to those who are simply “good” in the broader sense. His point is that good fruit cannot spring from a fallen nature. So how can the natural man produce fruit that can be described as “good” in any true sense at all?

Isn’t the implication of Scripture that when the natural man does things that are “good,” he is not acting out of his own fallen nature, but rather God is sovereignly overriding his nature and producing the good deed in him in spite of his evil nature. God’s restraint is a logical inference and one that is at least hinted at in several passages:

Genesis 20:6 I [God] also kept you [Abimelech] from sinning against Me…

Ezra 7:27 Blessed be the Lord…who has put such a [good] thing as this in the the king’s heart…

Psalm 16:2 My goodness is nothing apart from You.

The tragedy is that natural man does not recognize this sovereign, silent work of God in his life. This is a big part of why he has such a hard time realizing that his “good deeds” are as worthless as filthy rags in God’s sight. He does not think of his “goodness” as springing from God, as David did, but rather imagines it to spring from his own nature.

So, bottom line, don’t tell the atheist that he/she does good works. They will use it to justify themselves. But the truth is that only God is the source of “good.” He gets the glory!

Regards, OldProf

 

[PRmerger]

paul c, that may be the case with Pope Francis. But of the news articles I read that was not the message that came across. I want to clarify my view. So, here’s how I see the biblical case for just who can and who cannot do good works.

Believer: The believer is one of the elect. Chosen by God, regenerated, spiritually alive, and one of Jesus’ sheep (known by Jesus) that will never perish but will be raised up on the last day. The beliver can do and does do good works.

I’m sure I don’t have to quote a bunch of verses, but maybe one:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Nuff said.

Unbeliever: The unbeliever is spiritually dead and not one of God’s elect. Jesus never knows him/her. They cannot do ANY good works on their own. Why? Being “dead,” they simply don’t have any ability to do so.

Yes, unbelievers are made in the image of God.
Yes, unbelievers do many “good” things, like showing genuine, unselfish love for their families, sometimes even better than many believers.

But, if this “good” in them is only because of God as source, then they really don’t get any credit for their “good works.” Lets see.

1. Unbelievers doing “good”:

Deuteronomy 5:28 They [the Israelites who left Egypt, the majority of which turned out to be unbelievers] have done well in all that they have spoken.

Matthew 7:11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children…

Luke 6:33 If you do good to those who do good to you…even sinners do the same.

Romans 5:7 Perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.

1. The unbeliever’s big problem:

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?

Mark 10:18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.”

Romans 3:12 They have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no, not one.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

1. The real source of “good” in the unbeliever cannot be from the unbeliever:

Romans 8:7 The mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so.

Romans 14:23 Whatever is not from faith is sin.

Sin is the work of the unbeliever. Their “good”, while it may very well be from altruistic rather than purely selfish motives, it certainly isn’t from a true faith in God. If the greatest commandment is to love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength (Mark 12:30), then anything we do that is not at some core level an act of such love for God is fundamentally worthless and “like a filthy garment” (Isaiah 64:6).

1. The unbeliever is restrained:

So how do we explain how it is that fallen man is able to do such deeds in the first place? The difficulty is brought out in the following Scriptures:

Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

Matthew 12:34 You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure that which is evil.

In these verses the Lord is clearly using the terms good tree and good man to refer to those who are truly good (i.e., those born again with new natures), not to those who are simply “good” in the broader sense. His point is that good fruit cannot spring from a fallen nature. So how can the natural man produce fruit that can be described as “good” in any true sense at all?

Isn’t the implication of Scripture that when the natural man does things that are “good,” he is not acting out of his own fallen nature, but rather God is sovereignly overriding his nature and producing the good deed in him in spite of his evil nature. God’s restraint is a logical inference and one that is at least hinted at in several passages:

Genesis 20:6 I [God] also kept you [Abimelech] from sinning against Me…

Ezra 7:27 Blessed be the Lord…who has put such a [good] thing as this in the the king’s heart…

Psalm 16:2 My goodness is nothing apart from You.

The tragedy is that natural man does not recognize this sovereign, silent work of God in his life. This is a big part of why he has such a hard time realizing that his “good deeds” are as worthless as filthy rags in God’s sight. He does not think of his “goodness” as springing from God, as David did, but rather imagines it to spring from his own nature.

So, bottom line, don’t tell the atheist that he/she does good works. They will use it to justify themselves. But the truth is that only God is the source of “good.” He gets the glory!

Regards, OldProf

Where would you put Cornelius, from the NT? Was he an unbeliever? Or was he regenerated?

 

[PeaceInChrist]

Old Prof, God wrote the law on all our hearts, and made us in His image. Surely you will agree with those two Scriptural truths? I do not see, then, why God would not draw even the Gentile closer to Himself, if they are willing to respond.

I also do not see why, if a nonbeliever actively seeks to do good according to the law in his heart, he would not be more susceptible and responsive to the Spirit reaching out to him.

 

[PRmerger]

Old Prof, God wrote the law on all our hearts, and made us in His image. Surely you will agree with those two Scriptural truths? I do not see, then, why God would not draw even the Gentile closer to Himself, if they are willing to respond.

I also do not see why, if a nonbeliever actively seeks to do good according to the law in his heart, he would not be more susceptible and responsive to the Spirit reaching out to him.

Indeed. Cornelius is a great example of this.

As well as the Good Samaritan.

 

[OldProf]

Does God want everyone to be Catholic?

The elect, chosen by God, will go to heaven. So God wants a select group only to be Catholic (Christian from my perspective). And only God knows who that is.

Here is how we know this:

John 6:37-47. (Jesus)

37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

Ephesians 1:3-14 (Paul)

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Regards, OldProf

 

[StrawberryJam]

Old Prof, God wrote the law on all our hearts, and made us in His image. Surely you will agree with those two Scriptural truths? I do not see, then, why God would not draw even the Gentile closer to Himself, if they are willing to respond.

I also do not see why, if a nonbeliever actively seeks to do good according to the law in his heart, he would not be more susceptible and responsive to the Spirit reaching out to him.

Let me address your second paragraph.
Nonbelievers actively seek good everyday without the need of faith in your God.
Explain that.

 

[PRmerger]

Let me address your second paragraph.
Nonbelievers actively seek good everyday without the need of faith in your God.
Explain that.

Sure they can do good things. Even heroic things. But not things such as that which St. Maximilian Kolbe did.

You need Christian agape to do that.

 

[OldProf]

Where would you put Cornelius, from the NT? Was he an unbeliever? Or was he regenerated?

Cornelius (Acts 10) was clearly one of God’s elect.

Regards, OldProf

 

[PeaceInChrist]

Let me address your second paragraph.
Nonbelievers actively seek good everyday without the need of faith in your God.
Explain that.

Never did I say that one who seeks good will always find good, or He that is Good. Indeed, most evil is committed because some kind of a good is sought in it. Socrates was the first to proclaim this.

But one who genuinely seeks good according to God’s law in his heart, and does not deny God’s grace by their own pride, will come to God. One who attempts to do good but actively seeks good outside of God, also denies God by his pride. Thus, to be perfected, one must have faith in Almighty God and continually respond to the Holy Spirit, and one of these responses to the Spirit is to perform works according to the commands of Jesus Christ.

Though I must make it clear that I do not know who is saved and who is not, one who actively rejects God is obviously going about seeking good in the wrong way.

 

[PRmerger]

Cornelius (Acts 10) was clearly one of God’s elect.

Regards, OldProf

When was he regenerated?

I thought that only occurred when the Holy Spirit fell upon him. Is that not your teaching?